Questions and Trival things

 
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

Can anyone provide answers to the following

1. Is the line from Parliament to Flinders St in the Clifton Hill
tunnel still being used. The rails are shiny but underground so
probably not getting rusty

2. When was the last regularly steam hauled passenger train in
Victoria (and not 2'6"!). I know in NSW it was a Gosford Newcastle
connector hauled by 59s in 1972, or preceeding that, a Newcastle
Singleton train.

3. Why is it from a flyover in Fyshwick their appear to be at least 3
running lines into Canberra. Was there ever a multiple number of
genuine running lines, not sidings?

4. Did E-Class electrics ever regularly haul passenger trains in Vic?
Eg Lilydale or Franskton?

5. When the Rutherglen Red passenger train ran in the 70s, did it use
the branch to Rutherglen or stick to the mainline?

6. I've raised this previously but never got a super response. In
Victoria there was once the custom of a passenger train going onto a
wharf to pick-up shipping passengers eg Station Pier and I believe the
neighbouring pier as well. Did this happen in other states? If not,
what public transport was offered? I know the current Sydney OPT is
well served by PT, but what of the other locations?

7. I know there are tours of the City Underground in Sydney - or were.
Have there ever been tours of the tunnel that is reputed to lead from
North Sydney to Crows Nest? Where does it reach to or surface?

Thanks for your answers

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  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"RC"  wrote in message
news:7b1ed449.0301180247.44e191b8@posting.google.com...
> 1. Is the line from Parliament to Flinders St in the Clifton Hill
> tunnel still being used. The rails are shiny but underground so
> probably not getting rusty

Occasionally, but not regularly. They use it sometimes when other services
are not running fully around the loop (eg recent bridge works at Spencer St)
and sometimes when they need to keep a train busy for 10 minutes or so, but
not stable it.



Daniel
--
Daniel Bowen, Melbourne, Australia
dbowen at custard dot net dot au
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"Daniel Bowen"  wrote in message
news:ELbW9.1767$m47.8880@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "RC"  wrote in message
> news:7b1ed449.0301180247.44e191b8@posting.google.com...
> > 1. Is the line from Parliament to Flinders St in the Clifton Hill
> > tunnel still being used. The rails are shiny but underground so
> > probably not getting rusty
>
> Occasionally, but not regularly. They use it sometimes when other services
> are not running fully around the loop (eg recent bridge works at Spencer
St)
> and sometimes when they need to keep a train busy for 10 minutes or so,
but
> not stable it.

There are 2 non-PSR's scheduled to operate Mon-Fri.

Tony.
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

richy_ch_2000@yahoo.com (RC) wrote:

> Have there ever been tours of the tunnel that is reputed to lead from
> North Sydney to Crows Nest? Where does it reach to or surface?

There is no such tunnel.

There is a well known, and documented, stub tunnel of the platform 2
road at North Sydney that extends only far enough (i.e a few hundred
feet, tops) to just cross over the top of the Up Shore tunnel and then
stops at a dead end.  The tunnel is normally fully lit of the North
Sydney tunnel lighting circuits for ease of maintenance inspection.

Its hardly "tourable" in itself, but there have been a few organised
railfan visits as part of a more thorough visits to disused tunnels in
the Sydney area.

Cheers,

Bill


Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:27:55 GMT, Bill Bolton
wrote:

>richy_ch_2000@yahoo.com (RC) wrote:
>
>> Have there ever been tours of the tunnel that is reputed to lead from
>> North Sydney to Crows Nest? Where does it reach to or surface?
>
>There is no such tunnel.
>
>There is a well known, and documented, stub tunnel of the platform 2
>road at North Sydney that extends only far enough (i.e a few hundred
>feet, tops) to just cross over the top of the Up Shore tunnel and then
>stops at a dead end.  The tunnel is normally fully lit of the North
>Sydney tunnel lighting circuits for ease of maintenance inspection.

No, there is not any lighting in the stub tunnel unless you bring your
own.

David Johnson
trainman@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
------------------------------------
These comments are made in a private
capacity and do not represent the
official view of State Rail.
C.O.W.S. Page 11.
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

David Johnson  wrote:

> No, there is not any lighting in the stub tunnel unless you bring your
> own.

The what are the lights you can see from platform 2?

Cheers,

Bill


Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"RC"  wrote in message
news:7b1ed449.0301180247.44e191b8@posting.google.com...
> Can anyone provide answers to the following
>
> 1. Is the line from Parliament to Flinders St in the Clifton Hill
> tunnel still being used. The rails are shiny but underground so
> probably not getting rusty

Yes, used fairly frequently.

> 2. When was the last regularly steam hauled passenger train in
> Victoria (and not 2'6"!). I know in NSW it was a Gosford Newcastle
> connector hauled by 59s in 1972, or preceding that, a Newcastle
> Singleton train.
>
> 3. Why is it from a flyover in Fyshwick their appear to be at least 3
> running lines into Canberra. Was there ever a multiple number of
> genuine running lines, not sidings?
>
> 4. Did E-Class electrics ever regularly haul passenger trains in Vic?
> Eg Lilydale or Frankston?

Not sure, although swing door motors were used on trains from Warburton and
Stony Point.
>
> 5. When the Rutherglen Red passenger train ran in the 70s, did it use
> the branch to Rutherglen or stick to the mainline?

Branch as far as I know.
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

RC" asked:
> Can anyone provide answers to the following
>
> 1. Is the line from Parliament to Flinders St in the Clifton Hill
> tunnel still being used. The rails are shiny but underground so
> probably not getting rusty

There are about four or five trips a day, plus a couple on weekends.  Some
are empty trips, but others take passengers (albeit unadvertised).  There
are purely to hold a train for about quarter of an hour, as Daniel Bowen
said.  For times of the passenger trips, see
http://www.lexicon.net/met/trains/nonpsr.html, but note that the 7:11 a.m.
and 8:09 a.m. trips no longer operate.

Also as Daniel said, City Circle services are run as a replacement loop
service when other services are running direct.

> 4. Did E-Class electrics ever regularly haul passenger trains in Vic?
> Eg Lilydale or Franskton?

Not as far as I know.  The non-electric passenger cars that went beyond
Lilydale and Frankston were hauled by EMU motors to those stations, where
steam engines took over.  These would mostly have been swing-door or Tait
motors, but I do recall seeing Harris motors with "Healesville & Warburton"
or similar on their destination rolls.

--
John
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"RC"  wrote in message
news:7b1ed449.0301180247.44e191b8@posting.google.com...

> 6. I've raised this previously but never got a super response. In
> Victoria there was once the custom of a passenger train going onto a
> wharf to pick-up shipping passengers eg Station Pier and I believe the
> neighbouring pier as well. Did this happen in other states? If not,
> what public transport was offered?

In Fremantle the present Passenger Terminal is a long walk from the Railway
Station. In hindsight, I can't see why they didn't build it right opposite
the station, really. It was a real bugger of a hot day when I escorted
someone to Freo by train to catch a cruise ship. There may have been shuttle
buses but I never saw any.

rgds
Neil
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"Neil Gerace"  wrote in message
news:3e29b312$0$10659@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> "RC"  wrote in message
> news:7b1ed449.0301180247.44e191b8@posting.google.com...
>
> > 6. I've raised this previously but never got a super response. In
> > Victoria there was once the custom of a passenger train going onto a
> > wharf to pick-up shipping passengers eg Station Pier and I believe the
> > neighbouring pier as well. Did this happen in other states? If not,
> > what public transport was offered?
>
> In Fremantle the present Passenger Terminal is a long walk from the
Railway
> Station. In hindsight, I can't see why they didn't build it right opposite
> the station, really. It was a real bugger of a hot day when I escorted
> someone to Freo by train to catch a cruise ship. There may have been
shuttle
> buses but I never saw any.
>
> rgds
> Neil
>
>
The Light Rail line to Port Melbourne was extended a little more toward
Station Pier in recent years but does not run out onto the pier, unlike the
original 5'3" gauge set up. Perhaps the electric overhead gets in the way of
cranes & other cargo movements ?
I seem to recall that passenger trains onto Station Pier itself had ceased
long before the Port Melbourne line had been converted to Light Rail. The
electric overhead was also removed earlier IIRC.

The other state that currently has a good example of passenger trains close
to shipping passengers is NSW with Circular Quay rly. station being above
the ferry wharves & adjacent to the Cruise ship dock. Newcastle Station &
rail yards had docks alongside once. I don't think any of Brisbane's
riverside wharf lines ever had passenger trains. Tram & ferry links would
move passengers around the city. Some northern Qld. ports once had passenger
trains run right out onto wharves but I am sure none do now. Any wharf to
town station links would be by bus or taxi. Adelaide once ran boat trains
but I have no idea how close to the ships they terminated. Numerous other
places particuarly in SA & WA have run passenger carriages onto wharves for
shipping passengers to transfer to but I am sure this has not been done
since at least 1960.

It was once a common practice to have passenger train services run close to
shipping docks but it is rare nowadays. Stony Point is the only Victorian
example I can give.

I am interested in hearing about the state of any other sort of rail/marine
connections in Australia.    ~  tediboy
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:56:38 +1100, "tediboy"
wrote:
>It was once a common practice to have passenger train services run close to
>shipping docks but it is rare nowadays. Stony Point is the only Victorian
>example I can give.
>
>I am interested in hearing about the state of any other sort of rail/marine
>connections in Australia.    ~  tediboy

The TGR used to run boat trains to/from the Bass Strait steamer
terminal at Launceston (up to the 1950s?). Railway lines still reach
the general wharves at Burnie, Hobart and Bell Bay, and special
passenger trains have operated at least to the last two in recent
years. I know a some trips have been run for cruise ship passengers,
but I don't know if they were loaded on the wharf or not.

All three wharves still see good trains 5 or 6 days a week.

Stuart
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"Stuart D."  wrote in message
> >
> >I am interested in hearing about the state of any other sort of
rail/marine
> >connections in Australia.    ~  tediboy
>
> The TGR used to run boat trains to/from the Bass Strait steamer
> terminal at Launceston (up to the 1950s?). Railway lines still reach
> the general wharves at Burnie, Hobart and Bell Bay, and special
> passenger trains have operated at least to the last two in recent
> years. I know a some trips have been run for cruise ship passengers,
> but I don't know if they were loaded on the wharf or not.
>
> All three wharves still see good trains 5 or 6 days a week.
>
> Stuart
>
>
Thanks for that Stuart. I had only the vaugest idea of Tassie's pass.rail /
shipping connections, so I did not give it a mention in my rough description
of connections Aus. wide. No doubt a few other Tas. ports had boat--train
connections long ago eg. Strahan & Stanley. Come to  think of it, do harbour
cruises operate from the end of the rebuilt Abt Railway at Teeponaka ?
I doubt if any special passenger trains have operated for cruise ships to
wharf lines on the mainland for a great many years. Special tours have run
on some dockland lines though.

      ~  tediboy
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:09:58 +1100, "tediboy"
wrote:
>
>Thanks for that Stuart. I had only the vaugest idea of Tassie's pass.rail /
>shipping connections, so I did not give it a mention in my rough description
>of connections Aus. wide. No doubt a few other Tas. ports had boat--train
>connections long ago eg. Strahan & Stanley. Come to  think of it, do harbour
>cruises operate from the end of the rebuilt Abt Railway at Teeponaka ?
>I doubt if any special passenger trains have operated for cruise ships to
>wharf lines on the mainland for a great many years. Special tours have run
>on some dockland lines though.




For the West Coast, most cruise operators leave from Strahan Village,
about 2km around the bay from Regatta Point Station. I don't know what
condition the adjacent wharf is in. Jet boats do operate up the King
River beyond Teepokana, but its a bit early in the game for and
coordination/packages.

Like other states, there were a fair number of railways on wharves,
but not to many regular passenger trains.

Stuart
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

Special passenger trains operated to and from Pyrmont whalves to
embark troops during the Second World War and Korean War. Maybe also
WW1.

Also specials operated from Pyrmont and Station pier in Melbourne
receiving post-WW2 migrants and transporting them direct to migrant
camps at Bonnagilla and other locations.

Best regards..............Paul P
>
> Like other states, there were a fair number of railways on wharves,
> but not to many regular passenger trains.
>
> Stuart
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"Stuart D."  wrote in message
news:3e2b6534.20128250@newsroom.tas.gov.au...
> On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:09:58 +1100, "tediboy"
>  wrote:
> >
> >Thanks for that Stuart. I had only the vaugest idea of Tassie's pass.rail
/
> >shipping connections, so I did not give it a mention in my rough
description
> >of connections Aus. wide. No doubt a few other Tas. ports had boat--train
> >connections long ago eg. Strahan & Stanley. Come to  think of it, do
harbour
> >cruises operate from the end of the rebuilt Abt Railway at Teeponaka ?
> >I doubt if any special passenger trains have operated for cruise ships to
> >wharf lines on the mainland for a great many years. Special tours have
run
> >on some dockland lines though.
>
>
>
>
> For the West Coast, most cruise operators leave from Strahan Village,
> about 2km around the bay from Regatta Point Station. I don't know what
> condition the adjacent wharf is in. Jet boats do operate up the King
> River beyond Teepokana, but its a bit early in the game for and
> coordination/packages.
>
> Like other states, there were a fair number of railways on wharves,
> but not to many regular passenger trains.
>
> Stuart

Sydney's Forgotten Goods Railways by John Oakes [ARHS NSW] makes reference
to occasions on 21-5-1969 and 11-5-1971 when there were special workings
direct to the wharves at Darling Island. These followed a number of
movements during WW2 for troop transfers.

Geoff Lillico
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

>Thanks for that Stuart. I had only the vaugest idea of Tassie's pass.rail /
> >shipping connections, so I did not give it a mention in my rough description
> >of connections Aus. wide. No doubt a few other Tas. ports had boat--train
> >connections long ago eg. Strahan & Stanley. Come to  think of it, do harbour
> >cruises operate from the end of the rebuilt Abt Railway at Teeponaka ?
> >I doubt if any special passenger trains have operated for cruise ships to
> >wharf lines on the mainland for a great many years. Special tours have run
> >on some dockland lines though.

> For the West Coast, most cruise operators leave from Strahan Village,
> about 2km around the bay from Regatta Point Station. I don't know what
> condition the adjacent wharf is in. Jet boats do operate up the King
> River beyond Teepokana, but its a bit early in the game for and
> coordination/packages.
>
> Like other states, there were a fair number of railways on wharves,
> but not to many regular passenger trains.
>
> Stuart

If I recall correctly (open to correction), the Qld announced that it
would build (or someone) a proper international cruise ship at
Hamilton. Hamilton still has a number of lightly used railyards, some
which might get within 100m of the proposed site.

Hamilton railyard is connected to the Pinkemba line at Doomben. The
line has a O/H to Doomben for Citytrain services, however trains would
have to shunt to get close to the wharfs from the Hamilton yards.

Shane
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"tediboy"  wrote in message
news:5_GW9.28317$jM5.73284@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...

> Thanks for that Stuart. I had only the vaugest idea of Tassie's pass.rail
/
> shipping connections, so I did not give it a mention in my rough
description
> of connections Aus. wide. No doubt a few other Tas. ports had boat--train
> connections long ago eg. Strahan & Stanley. Come to  think of it, do
harbour
> cruises operate from the end of the rebuilt Abt Railway at Teeponaka ?
> I doubt if any special passenger trains have operated for cruise ships to
> wharf lines on the mainland for a great many years. Special tours have run
> on some dockland lines though.
>
>        ~  tediboy

Another Tasmanian port which has an adjacent railway station is Devonport,
albeit a short trip on the "ferry cross the Mersey".   I have availed myself
of this service to catch  a rail tour after coming across Bass Strait.

There has been talk of extending the Port Melbourne tram onto the pier, and
indeed there appears to be a bit of SG track at the beginning of the pier,
but time shall tell.

Cheers

John Kerley
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

"John Kerley"  wrote in message
news:JxNW9.186$O21.7531@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> There has been talk of extending the Port Melbourne tram onto the pier,
and
> indeed there appears to be a bit of SG track at the beginning of the pier,
> but time shall tell.
>
> Cheers
>
> John Kerley
>
>
Sounds like a reasonable & obvious idea, the present walk to the TT line
ferry is further than the walk to the Stony Point ferry from rail
connections. Trams should go onto the wharf at least around ferry times.

 ~  tediboy
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

RC  wrote in message
news:7b1ed449.0301180247.44e191b8@posting.google.com...
> 3. Why is it from a flyover in Fyshwick their appear to be at least 3
> running lines into Canberra. Was there ever a multiple number of
> genuine running lines, not sidings?
>

The center line is the only line that actually goes past Fyshwick. The other
2 lines are the North and South Shunting lines. The North Shunt is only used
by the ARHS at the moment, and the South Shunt is only open to the Shell
depot.

Dave Malcolm
  aus.rail Chief Train Controller

RC wrote:
>
> 6. I've raised this previously but never got a super response. In
> Victoria there was once the custom of a passenger train going onto a
> wharf to pick-up shipping passengers eg Station Pier and I believe the
> neighbouring pier as well. Did this happen in other states? If not,
> what public transport was offered? I know the current Sydney OPT is
> well served by PT, but what of the other locations?

Although not done as a regular thing (AFAIK) there are a number of
recorded instances of trains being run to Darling Island in Sydney to
enable passengers to connect to or from ships. Of course this is no
longer possible, and the last occasion may have been in the 1960s or
just possibly 1970s.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Victorian DOI website reveals that tram route 109 will operate from new terminus at Box Hill (currently Mont Albert) to shipside on Station Pier at Port Melbourne. The Box Hill extension is currently under construction (and running nearly a year late). At the Port Melbourne end double tram tracks have been laid on the Williamstown side of the pier to a point at the outer berths terminals where it comes down to a single track dead end.
Just ahead of the inner berth terminal there is a crossover in the double track.  To complete the project overhead will need to go in plus a short piece of connecting track (in an existing median strip) linking the existing terminus onto the lines laid on the pier proper.
Would think this will happen within 2 years as Government has yet to commission the Box Hill extension, and also centre of road trackage along this route in Victoria Street East Melbourne.

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