Flying Scotsman to Australia again ??

  Kafoopsy Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA
I'm glad you mentioned that the Flying Scotsman made a trip to Western Australia.  I have a DVD all about the Flying Scotsman in Australia and not once does it even hint that it came to WA!

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  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
There were at least two VHS producions that covered the West Australia visit. One was called Flying Scotsman meets Pendennis Castle. The other I can't remember the title but it covers the repairs on the loco after it arrived. Both are excellent records of this leg of the visit.
  jayrailnz Chief Train Controller

Location: Cromwell Otago NZ
VHS Mobil presents Flying Scotsman in Australia,Narrator Bud Tingwell,GTV9 product.
WA section with Penndennis a gem to be a railside spectator. Reminiscent of 3801 to Perth in 1970(.A return run Perth to Northam.)
Plus VHS Derrick Enterprises production=Flying Scotsman and Pendennis Castle WA RailTours. 4079/4472
Check Trademe ?Mine are in a vault ,will go looking to review and reminisce.
Traveled  on footplate on  a shunt at Carnforth on Scottie,1975.COSY!
  Typhon Assistant Commissioner

Location: I'm that freight train tearing through the sky in the clouds.
Hi all



Very insightful, thanks!  Smile
  3801_95 Junior Train Controller

Flying Scotsman down under has  a part about WA.
also about a camera man falling off the footplate Razz
  djukinX1016 Deputy Commissioner

On arrival in Perth and after the crowds went it was left to Pendennis Castle to haul the empty coaching stock from East Perth to Forrestfield. Flying Scotsman would go light engine following that train.

Now out of East Perth is a reasonable climb and Pendennis Castle tried to lift the train and slipped to a stand, several attempts were made including reversing back into Perth Terminal but Pendennis just kept slipping.

Another attempt was made and Pendennis made a much more spirited run and as the empty stock was going past, another steam locomotive was heard working hard at the back of the train and Scotsman came through banking the train.

  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Rather interesting seeing as Scotsman has 3 cylinders and the Castle 4 cylinders. Must have been more to it.  Laughing
  djukinX1016 Deputy Commissioner

Rather interesting seeing as Scotsman has 3 cylinders and the Castle 4 cylinders. Must have been more to it.  Laughing

I later heard was the sanders on Pendennis were not working very well on the damp rail.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Knew it had to be simple. The Castles were known for their power output over the A1s before they were improved and later became A3s.

The WA visit was lucky to happen at all thanks to Ian Willis (as Greg mentioned). If he had not organised all costs to be meet the trip would not have been possible.
  oscar2 Locomotive Fireman

Aussielgb, great read and thanks for the info.  What a triumph to all involved.  Among other things I had no idea there'd be those kinds of issues with loading and unloading and I completely forgot about Pendennis Castle in WA.
  jayrailnz Chief Train Controller

Location: Cromwell Otago NZ
Does Scottie have a passage way through the tender to allow  access to consist behind when in transit?
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Yes. It has always had one in preservation. It was put to good use on many of the Australian trips. The most notable being the Parkes-Broken Hill record run in which the crew car on the train was positioned at the front ahead of the water gins. Thus allowing ease change of crews over the 9h 25min run.
  jayrailnz Chief Train Controller

Location: Cromwell Otago NZ
Thought so,be cause I thought I went through beneath tender at Carnforth.
Also query does/did  either Scottie or Pendennis have water trough collectors ?
  Aussielgb Locomotive Fireman

Location: Gulmarrad Station
Hi all

I don't think sand would have been the problem with the castle, more like the load behind it.
When I first saw the castle I was surprised at the smaller size compared to the A3, although like the scot she could get up and run. We had a real time keeping up with both 4472 and 4079 when doing some of the mainline running, following by road, making for some great video footage.
When Scoty crossed Oz we had 5 cars as well as the crew car and parts van, and at various times up to 3 water gins. One car was left at Yunta through a hotbox and we picked up an old South Australian 500 Class car at Port Augusta to replace it.
Of course across South Oz we also had a GM, crew car and powervan added to the train.
At Kalgoolie we had a day where the GM and crew vans were shunted off and the water gins. Another 5 cars were added to make up the train.
At Koolyanobbing we picked up the Hotham Valley carriage crews and I was able to meet the owner of Flying Scotsman Sir William (Bill) McAlpine and his wife Jill.
At Northan we picked up the passengers for the run into Perth Terminal and the end of the 7 day trip from Sydney.
The Castle was already positioned at the end of the platform having come down by road from Dampier. Finally in the afternoon we arrived at Perth Terminal and after speaches etc the locos were put on display till early in the evening.
When the time came for the train to depart the castle was attached to the Sydney end of the train along with its water tanker. The castle then proceeded to pull the whole train out of Perth Terminal, I just forget the grade, but it was fairly steep right at the end of the platform. This grade made for some great performances by both locomotives when departing the Terminal.
We were sitting close by with the Hotham Valley crew and we had a great time telling them the train arriving was the castle returning. Again and again the Castle tried in vain to lift the load on the grade and time again it returned to the platform. I think 4 attempts were made before a sick scoty was coupled on the back and the train finally departed. The sound of the castle battling the grade at night was fantastic.
One of the best runs in the west was with 4472 and 4079 returning to Perth Terminal. Roland had made it a rule that no loco would be put on the front of the Scoty because of possible distortion of the frames. The A3's rarly were double headed, subsequently 01 only ran twice i think leading scoty. The same applied in Perth, however there was 1 and only 1 trip 4079 lead scoty on a return run. I went down to the platform to see this trip come back and standing in the middle of the platform the loco's raced past with all breaks on and hand brakes as well trying to pull up the train. luckily Perth has a long platform.
Running of the Castle by Pilbura they used 3 ex NSW FS cars for their runs. A diesel compressor was mounted on their auxillary water tank which was sufficent for this operation. On the mainline with a 10 car train this was less than suitable. Also going to Perth Scoty's compressor had suffered problems also and was not 100%. During the stay in Perth I think we went through a 1/2 dozen Coates hire compressors running the trains.

The Corridor tender was great for traveling to and from the footplate. I was able to get some great video from the footplate using the corridor. However it was very small and myself being over 6' meant a bit of cramping to get through. Saying that I did sleep one night in the corridor which was very interesting indeed. Crossing the desert the corridor was used to get our 16 passengers to the footplate so that all could experience the Nullabour and the longest straight from the footplate of 4472 at sunset. A truely unforgetable experience.

Both 4472 and 4079 had water scoop gear fitted,however 4472 lost most of its to make room for the air tanks required for the Westinghouse Air brakes prior to the Oz trip. The Castle from what I could see still had all the equipment fitted under the tender.


  jayrailnz Chief Train Controller

Location: Cromwell Otago NZ
Good reply and brief Greg. Scotty goes back to1862,long heritage,and many forms.
4472 was a star player from the 1920s,and is a great survivor.It has a fullsome history (see Wikipedia).
Do 3 cylinder and 4 cylinder locos perform much worse on 2 cylinders. ?how much?
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
Do 3 cylinder and 4 cylinder locos perform much worse on 2 cylinders. ?how much?

Much worse. Like multi engined aeroplanes, take 50% of the horsepower away, you lose 85% of the aeroplane's performance. Three and four cylinder locos have the extra cylinders to improve balance and performance, take them away and they will barely limp along light engine.

  KngtRider Chief Commissioner


The question is, considering the loco has been sent to Canada, will it also be sent to New York and Syd/Melbourne...

Syd and Melbourne have easy cross-town access to preserved steam locos and or across the road

Its no Scotsman though

It must be iconic to the production like the Hogwarts, as you think they'd get a locomotive out of the mentioned museum (which is an impressive setup) rather than going to all the trouble of sending a 'relic' across the Atlantic
  Jeremy_Williams Junior Train Controller

Stuff an A1/A3, an A4!!!
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
6201 "Princess Elizabeth" for me thanks.
That is one loco I'd love to see over here.
  KngtRider Chief Commissioner

Since this thread is discussing the connection between aus and a english loco, the following is is fitting to add.

For those who are not aware, A4 Bittern has been repainted into LNER garter blue with valances and red wheels and renamed/renumbered Dominion of New Zealand.

Union of South Africa and Dominion of Canada are preserved locos.

It will be in this livery for three years. This likely the closest we are going to get to a pommy loco here again I think.

Missed it by that much?  16-Apr entry

Why they chose NZ over AUS I do not know. There might be a logical explanation, maybe someone saved the plates and they were copied or used. A discussion for another category/topic.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Hmm, could we bring a 50.35/01.10/52.80 class DB loco over if we cant get the Scotsman?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
For those who are not aware, A4 Bittern has been repainted into LNER garter blue with valances and red wheels and renamed/renumbered Dominion of New Zealand......

Why they chose NZ over AUS I do not know.

Is there some secret pecking order  Laughing
  M636C Minister for Railways

For those who are not aware, A4 Bittern has been repainted into LNER garter blue with valances and red wheels and renamed/renumbered Dominion of New Zealand......

Why they chose NZ over AUS I do not know.

Is there some secret pecking order  Laughing
"bingley hall"

If anyone really cares, the nameplates are about the same length and only the last digit of the number is different (4491 or 4492, 12 or 13). With full valances only the four digit numbers applied. If someone was happy to pay for two chrome numbers and a set of cast name plates and able to arrange to change the last painted number on the buffer beam, you could change the identity to suit the occasion.  Bittern spent some time in silver as "Silver Link" some years ago.

  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas
Titfield, thanks so much for putting that up.  

I'm simply gobsmacked by the transport costs that article and K160 quotes.  Surely it wouldn't cost that much to ship a container marked 100 tonnes of metal so why would a loco cost that much?

So how did 4472 come to being here in '88?  Any government assistance and how was it funded? I was 16 then, in Tamworth and never saw it apart from on the TV.  I get from the article that following a year's worth operation at home, should a formal request be made and the money put forward then it's possible the loco could come here.  

Anyway, it's interesting to read Roland Kennington say how surprised he was about the interest 4472 generated and by the sounds of it, the tour was successful financially.  Makes you wonder could a similarly successful venture be gained by a reciprocal visit by one of our locos touring the UK.  Thinks of 3801 as a likely candidate.

The visit was organised by a specific purpose committee led by the late Wal Stuchbery, a true gentleman. I had the privilege of hosting quite a few of the meetings, and helping on the periphery. There was a tremendous degree of co-operation and goodwill around the traps, even while the red tape was duly filled in and filed. Not to say that there were no obstacles.

Funding and Sponsorship came from a wide range of sources, canvassed by Committee Members and enthusiasts.  Wal's involvement in the Volunteer Country Fire Brigades in Vic (Yan Yean in his case) helpfully widened the catchment for sponsorship.

I drew up the diagrammatic guide to services in Seymour for passengers on the short trips from Melbourne.

I'd love to have the Scottie back - but let's choose an event of national significance for which this could be a contributory element - as Aus Steam '88 was for the Bicentennial.

Of course, the Scottie will be unavailable for quite a while, and likely in demand thereafter.

As for an Aussie loco reciprocating with a visit to Britain, loading gauge issues must be taken into account. Would a NSW "35/36" fit on some British lines (especially from one of the ports)?

DW in Devonport
  oneblueengine Locomotive Driver

Location: some where out there
scotsman in war time black

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