If and when the Mildura line ever gets standardized it will be standardized as Gheringhap - Ballarat - Maryborough - Mildura. As such the direct Melbourne - Ballarat route would remain as bg .

Any such standardization of the Mildura Line will be driven by freight traffic, not passenger traffic .

In an ideal world with a bottomless bucket of money available the most logical sg conversion would actually be Gheringhap - Mildura coupled with Ballarat - Ararat .

ARTC could then run Down trains via Cressy & Up trains via Beaufort, with VLP Ararat trains going onto sg and operating as Melbourne - North Shore - Ballarat - Ararat on sg .

would also let the Ararat vline service be exteneded to Stawell and beyond

If and when the Mildura line ever gets standardized it will be standardized as Gheringhap - Ballarat - Maryborough - Mildura. As such the direct Melbourne - Ballarat route would remain as bg .

Any such standardization of the Mildura Line will be driven by freight traffic, not passenger traffic .

In an ideal world with a bottomless bucket of money available the most logical sg conversion would actually be Gheringhap - Mildura coupled with Ballarat - Ararat .

As well as the Hopetoun - Lascelles connection being built, allowing a direct route for the mineral sands traffic and an alternate route to Mildura.

So you know there's no traffic out there, yet you still make an idiotic comment...

Idiotic you say

I beg to differ.

You don't take into account the induced travel which wouldn't have hitherto occurred due to the implementation of a comfortable, convenient train service which would enable those who wouldn't undertake the existing bus/train trip nor, importantly, have the means or stamina to drive, nor have the necessary $$ or a medical condition which may preclude them from flying but may well consider taking the train.

It's the induced travel you won't admit exists, nor will you figure into your negativity about the transport services to the north west in general.
We all know of the huge attendance at the public meeting in Mildura and the over 500 submissions advocating, apparently none objecting to the return of the pax rail service to Mildura

Put more simply, if the Ballarat and Bendigo lines ran the same train service today as say, the 1970's with an average of three ups and three downs a day, with 2 services on Sundays, do you think the same number of pax that travels today, minus say 25% allowing for the lower population 35 years ago would turn up at their station to cram onto those scant services

Same with the three airlines flying to Mildura these days, compared to the sole Ansett ANA in the 1970's...induced travel.  

Seems to me after reading pages and pages of blue posts by a certain individual, that there is not much difference between The Vinelander and Meltrip - they both bang on and on about their hobby horse to the complete and utter boredom of everyone else  

If The Vinelander feels so pasionately about his Mildura fetish, why doesn't he lobby the relevant Councils, transport authorities, and Government departments, instead of going on and on about in a 3rd party web site such as this?

Meltrip

Do not confuse Meltrip with Melbtrip. The former, Peter Parker, is a brilliant person capable of sane, well-thought-out contributions.

The latter, Melbtrip, is a moron and most of his work is a direct copy of other peoples' - right down to the username and first websites.

If The Vinelander feels so pasionately about his Mildura fetish, why doesn't he lobby the relevant Councils, transport authorities, and Government departments, instead of going on and on about in a 3rd party web site such as this?

Already done so where it counts most.

Feel free to ignore this thread, moreover I do comment on many other issues apart from the one my Avatar is named after.  

Ooops, mea culpa  
Melbtrip is indeed who I was referring too!
Thank you for picking that up.

Seems to me after reading pages and pages of blue posts by a certain individual, that there is not much difference between The Vinelander and Meltrip - they both bang on and on about their hobby horse to the complete and utter boredom of everyone else

Yet you obviously keep reading it!

Railpage really has sunk to a poor level over the past six months or so.  So many people think its smart to slag of at posters, rather than debating the subjects of the threads.  What has happened?  Have a few nasty posters turned into celebrities and been looked up to by others, causing many to follow?  Has moderation failed?

Whatever, it would be great if everyone were able to respect other people's right to have an opinion.  You also have the right of reply to disagree.  If its done with respect, you have a chance of winning the debate.  If not, you have no hope.

Railpage Australia™ really has sunk to a poor level over the past six months or so.  So many people think its smart to slag of at posters, rather than debating the subjects of the threads.  What has happened?  Have a few nasty posters turned into celebrities and been looked up to by others, causing many to follow?  Has moderation failed?

I have noticed of late that this thread has turned into little more than a slagging match.

The other thing I have noticed is the rise and rise of the kiddie foamer, and when you come to the site, its plainly obvious that threads have been started by youngsters who haven't a clue.

Then there has been the endemic nastiness of some older (but not mature) members - and surprise, surprise, it ain't coming from NSW's Nasty One ... its coming from others who should know a helluva lot better - and are not trod on by the mods.

My second point is not really relevant to this particular thread, but my first point is, and my last point is.

Whatever, it would be great if everyone were able to respect other people's right to have an opinion.  You also have the right of reply to disagree.  If its done with respect, you have a chance of winning the debate.  If not, you have no hope.

Yes, respect is definitely needed here. I saw some posts the other day which began with something like Are we gonna get more meaningless dribble from you ... which was real disappointing as that particular user had been around quite a while.

Though I had a love/hate relationship with STB's posts criticising me banging on about the Mildura thing, I miss his and other more acid tongue posters who used to post in these pages. Riccardo comes to mind.

Sadly many of the younger posters, are merely enquiring minds, whose seemingly inane posts should be welcomed who don't have the venom to counter my rantings, so it's left to ZH.

Though infuriating with his blind economics, if ZH decided to leave the forum, it will become rather a dull place to post.

That aside, there's a place for the acid tongue and thought out counters to legitimate posters. There's NO room for bullying.

Mike.

Putting my little bit in as probably the oldest poster on Railpage, I have been very disappointed with the position of Victorian posts which has deteriorated considerably over the past five years. Five years ago, I learned a lot about railways from the posters in these forums, but nowadays, there is too much bitching and  name calling. I think the
Victorian section is now the worst offender. If I was a moderator, there are a lot of people I would ban....or tell to smarten up.

True enough, but in this case The Vinelander needs some support.  His comments about Mildura are eminently sensible and well reasoned.  It's a pity that some others don't pay attention to the contents of posts, rather than just trying to score brownie points.

These forums should be for information sharing, not for back stabbing.

Meltrip

Do not confuse Meltrip with Melbtrip. The former, Peter Parker, is a brilliant person capable of sane, well-thought-out contributions.

The latter, Melbtrip, is a moron and most of his work is a direct copy of other peoples' - right down to the username and first websites.

Is that best you can come up with SteamtoStay?

It is very sad people that can’t point out their position on a giving topic without the need to personally attack another user on this forum.

These statements or like these statements make from SteamtoStay, that have make this forum unfriendly place for users to share their ideas, knowledge and information with other users.

Because of these unfriendly and personal attacks against users has lead to people that may have knowledge and information public transport industry deciding no longer to take part of discussion of issues on this forum.

The major question here is; what that point of sharing your ideas, knowledge and information with other users and knowing there is small amount of people on this forum will go out their way by personally attacking you and will not add any substance to the  discussion?

The major question here is; what that point of sharing your ideas, knowledge and information with other users and knowing there is small amount of people on this forum will go out their way by personally attacking you and will not add any substance to the  discussion?

There are MANY people who read these pages who don't post at all. Indeed I'd guess that of all the posters in these pages, there are about 10 times as many people who rarely, or never post in these pages.

Guys, why not make yourselves known and add your two penneth worth to the discussion. There are no silly questions here, just a few impatient people who think everyone should have the same knowledge as them.

I too, due to an inquiring mind have learnt a lot about my hobby in the 5+ years I've posted  in these pages.

Mike.    

Report on my $88.40 return, June long weekend trip to Mildura via VLine.

The 8:15 train departed SXS 15" late due a late train examiner, and with mis-timed crosses didn't pick up any time en-route at all, with the connecting bus arriving in Mildura 35" late at 15:50. there were 88 pax on the train when it arrived at Swan Hill, and the 56 seater bus was full, save for one spare seat next to me, so 57 on the bus...no I didn't book an extra seat for sprawling room. 18 alighted at Robinvale

The 13:15 return journey yesterday(Monday) had 22 on the bus from Mildura, 10 on at Robinvale, 2 at Wood Wood.
On time into Swan Hill, with a full ACN on departure from Swan Hill, the rest of the train was also well patronised and was 75% full when I alighted at Castlemaine at 18:45, which, knowing everything at Ballan would be closed allowed time for a quick walk to the IGA to pick up a few things before joining the 9 other pax on the bus to Ballarat.

The bus departed Castlemaine at 19:20, and arrival at Ballarat was early at 20:37, which allowed plenty of time for the last up at 21:04 which had 18 pax.

The train arrived at Ballan at 21:20 with 3 pax off, and I was home 20" faster, with consumables for breakfast than had I stayed on the up Swan Hill and made the 10 min down Ballarat connection at SCS.

Of interest was the volcanic dust cloud which disrupted flights to, among other places, Mildura, as reported below.

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/news/local/news/general/stranded-volcano-grounds-mildura-flights/2193584.aspx

So, VLine turned out to be by far the best bet after all  

Mike.    

G'Day everyone. This is my first post on this website..so here goes.
Well done to Vinelander on the interesting look at the currently available methods to get to Mildura. How would it compare time-wise to the old Vinelander trip? Has anyone heard yet if the current Liberal government are going to do anything constructive with the passenger service review and the public submissions, or are they just going to sit on it like every other public transport issue?
Thanks, Damo

Two sayings prompt.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Lies, damn lies and statistics: look hard enough and any set of statistics can be found to back up any point of view.

Agreed

Eh, Mikelander, why do you keep wasting everyones time? You did this just before Easter(?), a couple of days before you picked the worst fares.

And we shot you down in flames. And you looked like a goose.

And it seems like there is time aplenty to waste in sunny Mildura as you are doing it again

BTW it's not everybody whose life is so well organised that several months out they know they will have time to go visiting friends/family and can take advantage of cheaper fares.
Moreover, who's turning up at Melbourne airport at 7 AM or earlier to pick up an early 'cheap' flight unless they live near the airport.

Mike.    

Your family and friends must be idiots if they don't know when the Queens Birthday long weekend is.

Do they wake up on the Saturday morning beforehand, and suddenly realise?

Re: Melb Airport at 7 am, its no different to anyone having to get up early to catch a train or drive.

Your points are, as always, irrelevant

G'Day everyone. This is my first post on this website..so here goes.
Well done to Vinelander on the interesting look at the currently available methods to get to Mildura. How would it compare time-wise to the old Vinelander trip? Has anyone heard yet if the current Liberal government are going to do anything constructive with the passenger service review and the public submissions, or are they just going to sit on it like every other public transport issue?
Thanks, Damo

Welcome to the forum damooops.

If you've been lurking for a while you may find it a bit of a challenging bear pit  However I like the sport and intellectual challenges this brings, like shooting down the rampant economist MichaelJ as you'll read further below.

To answer your question, a random Vinelander timetable (T/T) from the 1970's shows the service taking around 11 hours to Mildura. This was fine as cashed-up pax would book a sleeper and travel overnight, thus saving a day. See Mark Bau 's invaluable resource below.

http://www.victorianrailways.net/timetables/tthome.html

In later years around 1 hour was further shaved from the T/T, however any further acceleration of the service would have been pointless as there was little point in arriving at either destination before 7AM.

I believe a government announcement after the extremely lengthy consultation and the unprecedented strong local public advocacy process will be made very soon.  

BTW it's not everybody whose life is so well organised that several months out they know they will have time to go visiting friends/family and can take advantage of cheaper fares.
Moreover, who's turning up at Melbourne airport at 7 AM or earlier to pick up an early 'cheap' flight unless they live near the airport.

Mike.    

Your family and friends must be idiots if they don't know when the Queens Birthday long weekend is.

Welcome back, MichaelJ from under whatever rock you've been lurking these past weeks. and thanks for insulting my family and friends who I know would never stoop to your level to insult you

Do they wake up on the Saturday morning beforehand, and suddenly realise?

For your info, I only realised about a fortnight ahead, in retrospect, plenty of time ahead that I'd have the time and opportunity to travel to Mildura for the just passed long weekend, so as a comparison, I posted airline fares as an example of how unwittingly Joe Public is being ripped when he decides around two weeks out to travel to Mildura for a sunny, Winter long weekend.

Re: Melb Airport at 7 am, its no different to anyone having to get up early to catch a train or drive.

Obviously you dwell near the airport to be fortunate enough to pop across the road to catch an early flight,...good for you. For me, and the majority of others it's at least a 60" journey on PT with connections, not allowing for the mandated requirement to be at the airport around 6AM for your 7AM flight.

How you can compare a doable trip by train to SCS to connect with the 8:15 Swan Hill train, or the even easier few steps to my adjacent garage to hop in the car and drive, though I choose for my own reasons not to do so, beggars belief.

Eh, Mikelander, why do you keep wasting everyones time? You did this just before Easter(?), a couple of days before you picked the worst fares.

And we shot you down in flames. And you looked like a goose.

The goose, apparently is you

A further comparison of cheapest airfares, say QANTAS for a Friday night, return Sunday afternoon flight to Mildura in ONE months time - $340:00.

Not to mention the latest woes affecting air travel in general.

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/news/local/news/general/air-anxiety-sunraysia-jetsetters-brace-for-more-cancellations/2195025.aspx

^Usual rubbish figures.

It's $226 for Qantas and Rex, and $198 for Virgin.

And I found these options through The Flight Centre for Friday 17 July 2011 [correct as at time of posting]:

Virgin Australia Flight DJ1615 @ 1145hrs $135
Rex  ZL3662 @ 1245hrs $222.16
Qantas QF2084 @ 1615hrs $280.01
Rex ZL3682 @ 1620hrs $260.63
Rex ZL3684 @ 1945hrs $260.63
Qantas QF2086 @ 1950hrs $306.00

Link: https://secure.flightcentre.com.au/tundra/ibe/flights/book;jsessionid=BCF12F402A92EFC7C518238EF48E9677.abnel77?execution=e1s1

So, even by the cheapest fares which appear to fluctuate hour-by-hour, without having to take time off work on a Friday, and returning say mid afternoon on a Sunday, the cheapest fare I found on the Flight Centre web-site was $353.40 (includes booking fee) return which seems about right compared to my earlier posted calculations.

The $353.40 fare is more than 4 times the cost of VLine.

Moving along to yesterdays announcement from Minister Mulder:

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/news/local/news/general/train-report-soon-independent-review-of-costs-to-be-carried-out/2198011.aspx

Train report soon: Independent review of costs to be carried out

BY CHRIS MCLENNAN

17 Jun, 2011 04:00 AM
THE State Government has agreed to independently review the cost of returning a passenger train to Mildura.
Public Transport Minister Terry Mulder will release the latest report into the bid to return the train within 10 days.

These were the key outcomes of a long meeting between Mr Mulder and a delegation of Mildura representatives in his Melbourne office yesterday.

The Mildura delegation included members of the Mildura Passenger Train Action Group – Maria Reidl, Mary Chandler and Dennis and Jan Kennedy.

Mayor John Arnold was present at the meeting along with Member for Mildura Peter Crisp.

The Baillieu Government is yet to reveal its hand on the return of the Mildura train after the Kennett Government axed the service 18 years ago.

The Department of Transport is known to have briefed Public Transport Minister Terry Mulder before the meeting.

A consultant hired by the department to analyse the latest 240 submissions from Mildura residents demanding the return of their train has finished his work.

Now, it comes as no surprise that some posters may think me to be slightly obsessed with Mildura, and that may have something to do with my recent postings and my avatar may also have something to do with it as well. Not to mention me banging on about my favourite topic in these pages over the past 5 years

Having said that, and knowing a decision is imminent, I want to say here and now I'm not going to bang on either way regardless of how the Minister makes his decision, though I reserve the right to reply to ill-considered posts.

Mike.

[quote="The Vinelander"][color=darkblue]So, even by the cheapest fares which appear to fluctuate hour-by-hour, without having to take time off work on a Friday, and returning say mid afternoon on a Sunday, the cheapest fare I found on the Flight Centre web-site was $353.40 (includes booking fee) return which seems about right compared to my earlier posted calculations.

The $353.40 fare is more than 4 times the cost of VLine.[/color]
[/quote]

If they return the passenger train to Mildura it is likely to be a daylight service. That means you would be leaving Melbourne on the Friday [b]morning[/b] and leaving Mildura on the Sunday [b]morning[/b]. In both cases, I saw $99 fares from Virgin, which means $198 return.

If in the unlikely event they did return the train to Mildura and run it as a night service with Sleeping carriages, I doubt you would get a one way ticket for less than $200 without having to situp all night. A return sleeping car journey would be anywhere in the $300-400 bracket which compares with the existing evening fares on the plane.

If you're happy to sit up all night in economy, then I don't see why you are in any position to complain about the bus.

ie: if you want convenience/comfort, you have to pay for it.

[quote="The Vinelander"][color=darkblue]
Moving along to yesterdays announcement from Minister Mulder:

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/news/local/news/general/train-report-soon-independent-review-of-costs-to-be-carried-out/2198011.aspx

[color=darkred][size=18]Train report soon: Independent review of costs to be carried out[/size]
[/color][/quote]

Just because they are going to announce the costings, doesn't automatically mean you have anything to celebrate. I would be suprised if this is anything more than justifying why they can't return train services.

They'll probably make some sort of announcement in due course about upgrading the connection via Swan Hill

Above is a wonderful example if I do say so of crystal ball gazing and speculation.  

Hey Mikelander. An article in the Warrnambool Standard on the 3rd of June titled "Past Premiers forecast a south west future", sorry couldnt post the link for some reason, Denis Napthine is quoted as saying "standardisation of the freight link between Mildura and Portland was the first priority of the state governments planned upgrades to regional railways".
Does this mean Mr Napthine thinks of this line as freight only?
Are ministers Napthine and Mulder on the same page as far as this line is concerned??
Do you think this line will ever be standardised?