Fitzroy and North Fitzroy Goods Yards

 
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria

Was the line to Fitzroy ever electrified? It doesn't look like it was from the photos, unless they were very thorough in removing all the remains.



In the 1945 arial photo the briquette shed and footbridge can clearly be seen, and what is possibly the passenger platform just to the north of the footbridge. Does anyone know when the passenger service ended?

"Melbournesparks"


G'day All,
               a)to my knowledge the actual branch to Fitzroy was never electrified, but the fuller story of the Inner Circle is briefly explained on the Wikipedia page at:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Circle_railway_line#Freight_only
               b) as PK wrote:"I believe the original passenger platform was under the timber shed on the up side of the line north of the footbridge."
               c) The Wikipedia article for the inner circle line states that the Fitzroy branch was: "closed to passengers May 1892 and to goods August 1981"
       The current flow of information at present is very refreshing and valuable. I look forward to bringing it together as a summary over the next month.
Regards,
         Andrew G.

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  chonnaigh Station Master

Location: Vic

Was the line to Fitzroy ever electrified? It doesn't look like it was from the photos, unless they were very thorough in removing all the remains.



In the 1945 arial photo the briquette shed and footbridge can clearly be seen, and what is possibly the passenger platform just to the north of the footbridge. Does anyone know when the passenger service ended?

"Melbournesparks"


The actual North Fitz- Fitz branch was not.

I do recall seeing some grand plan to extend the Fitz line via a tunnel or cutting to Jolimont. Cant recall what era that was. Maybe early 1920s? 

The rest of the Rushall- Royal Park was wired and ran suburban services until just after WW2, then for Football and Zoo specials only. Trains were stabled in the North Carlton platforms during the games at Princes Park. I think it was 'unwired' in the early 60's and the track singled. The interlocked gates, wig wag  and handgates at the various level crossings were presumably removed then too.

PK 
  CAP_gauge Junior Train Controller

I have been following this discussion closely and found it very interesting.

With regard to passenger facilities, I think it almost certain that the station would have been a brick building in the style of North Fitzroy, Kew, Ringwood, Yea etc., as it was built in the late 1880s when there was lots of money about and Fitzroy at that time was an up-market suburb. Most stations built at that time were of that style.

There were indeed thoughts about extending the railway south to Flinders Street by some means or other, this was circa 1910 before the railway through Jolimont was built. I found some references to these proposals in The Argus of that period on Trove.

This raises the question of when and why was the station building demolished. It may have been around 1922 when the huge briquette shed was built, as by that time all thoughts of restoring the passenger service and extending the line south would have been forgotten.

Regards,

Frank
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
G'day All,
                In an attempt to collate this material I have created a specific Blog at:

http://fitzroygoodsyard.wordpress.com/

Where possible, please keep the discussion here at Railpage and not on the blog.
Regards,
             Andrew G.
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
When I get my computer running and my research resources out of storage, I'll post some stuff.
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Norm Bray has done it again, added another 1980's shot  http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/8046547297
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
Norm Bray has done it again, added another 1980's shot http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/8046547297
"nscaler69"

And another!!! http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/8049689319/
Side view of the briquette shed, open walls, internal details of the briquette moving machinery! If I get to doing a model, how far do you go???? Fortunately I'm in N scale and could justify `selective ignorance'. Now there's a challenge, could someone do the yard in HO??? Now that would be impressive, perhaps a club project.
Norm & Grahame, what wonderful men. I was getting very close too withdrawal symptoms. Eventually an end must come. Sadly historical photos are not a renewable resource!
Regards,
            Andrew G.


  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I have some slides taken in July 1976 (on a fan trip) and Octover 1978 (of the regular goods train). I shall take a look, and scan those which might have some useful details of the station area.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

The passenger platform and track layout c1890 can be seen on slv's digitised MMBW plans. The base for exploring is: http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?init=MAIN_GRID_SYSTEM, and the plan showing the southern end of the yard is http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?init=1260&uplink=10E

As can be seen, the  passenger platform was at the southern end of the yard, with the station building roughly opposite Newry St.

The station building is quite small, and I would suspect it was a simple portable. Brick station buildings were normally erected after a line was opened, and under a specific contract. I haven't found such a contract for Fitzroy.

The extension to Melbourne was considered as part of the investigation into providing a direct connection between the Whittlesea/Heidelberg lines and Flinders St during the late 1890s. Two routes were considered: via Fitzroy and via Collingwood. Although there was some local support to build both lines, political realities were that it was difficult enough to get support for one very expensive city line, let along two. The Collingwood line was cheaper (cheaper land), the council supported it and would pay a subsidy. The MTO Coy didn't want either line, and neither did the Tramway Trust, but especially didn't want the Fitzroy line as it would have competed with their Smith St cable line. Even after the Collingwood line was chosen and built, the locals didn't give up hope. This was the reason why the Northcote Loop (to take Reservior trains direct to Princes Bridge) wasn't built until 1906.
  retromelb Chief Commissioner

Just had a look at the excellent MMBW plans (via State Library of Victoria) on the link provided by Historian and have put together an animated gif that shows the area north of West Richmond station where a row of terrace houses was partly demolished to make way for the diverted Clifton Hill lines (vs recent Nearmap photo).  Slightly off topic though, but should interest a few of you who are following this thread...




  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
The passenger platform and track layout c1890 can be seen on slv's digitised MMBW plans. The base for exploring is: http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?init=MAIN_GRID_SYSTEM, and the plan showing the southern end of the yard is http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?init=1260&uplink=10E

As can be seen, the passenger platform was at the southern end of the yard, with the station building roughly opposite Newry St.

The station building is quite small, and I would suspect it was a simple portable. Brick station buildings were normally erected after a line was opened, and under a specific contract. I haven't found such a contract for Fitzroy.

The extension to Melbourne was considered as part of the investigation into providing a direct connection between the Whittlesea/Heidelberg lines and Flinders St during the late 1890s. Two routes were considered: via Fitzroy and via Collingwood. Although there was some local support to build both lines, political realities were that it was difficult enough to get support for one very expensive city line, let along two. The Collingwood line was cheaper (cheaper land), the council supported it and would pay a subsidy. The MTO Coy didn't want either line, and neither did the Tramway Trust, but especially didn't want the Fitzroy line as it would have competed with their Smith St cable line. Even after the Collingwood line was chosen and built, the locals didn't give up hope. This was the reason why the Northcote Loop (to take Reservior trains direct to Princes Bridge) wasn't built until 1906.
"historian"


Thank-you Historian & RetroMelb for your good work, you are entering into an area that personally I am not as interested in as much as the goods yard in the 1960/70's until closure. But I do welcome them on this thread as it all forms a background picture and new sources of information that can be use in a variety of ways. It will also be of benefit to many of the readers of this thread So keep up the good work and discussion.
From Historian's good work in chasing down the MMBW plans I have a surprising windfall.
I am able to get total views of the two relevant 1906 drawings by pressing the "VIEW ON LINE" button at:    


 

Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works detail plan, 1260, City of Fitzroy [cartographic material].


 

Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works detail plan, 1259, City of Fitzroy [cartographic material].

which I hope work.
At their original size they are scaled at 40 foot to the inch, i.e. 1:480, which is 1/3 of N scale at 1:160. "How good is that!" While some of the points would have been removed, I think that overall economics and practicalities would mean that the location of the present points are likely to be survivors of the 1906 arrangement. It looks like a weighbridge and building are on the 1906 plan, I wonder if it is the same as the Yard foreman's office, or at least the same location? So the `deeper/earlier' historical research is paying dividends to us `later' researchers.
Thank-you also to the other folks who are offering to search their personal archives/collections. It is very much appreciated and benefiting more than myself.
Regards,
              Andrew G.









  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
The passenger platform and track layout c1890 can be seen on slv's digitised MMBW plans. The base for exploring is: http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?init=MAIN_GRID_SYSTEM, and the plan showing the southern end of the yard is http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?init=1260&uplink=10E

As can be seen, the passenger platform was at the southern end of the yard, with the station building roughly opposite Newry St.

The station building is quite small, and I would suspect it was a simple portable. Brick station buildings were normally erected after a line was opened, and under a specific contract. I haven't found such a contract for Fitzroy.

"historian"


G'day All,
              After an `interesting' time last night with the computer, various software packages, the guillotine, a glue stick, and the trusty laser printer set on 'Toner Saver' was able to print out and stick together the section of the MMBW plan of the station area and its immediate surroundings. I managed to be able to clearly sort out a few dimensions and confirm some spatial relationships.

  • Discovery: the briquette shed was build over the site of the passenger station and platform as it is shown in the 1906 MMBW plans.

  • In N scale a model without compression would be about 3m long from Queens Parade to the entry to the Edinburgh Gardens.  That is the yard only, no scenic bit of gardens to set the scene, or fiddle/staging yard. - 'Z' or 'T' gauge anyone????

  • The distance from the points at the Gardens of the yard to the points at the briquette unloader is almost the same as the distance from these briquette unloader points to the end of the siding beside the briquette shed.


More data from the maps by the end of next week after I have had access to some long smooth tables to set the map out on.
On the modelling front: With the issue of selective compression now being a necessity for my own efforts - if anyone wants to build any version in any scale for themselves please be free to do so. With a comparatively isolated location and limited free weekends I am unlikely to be doing much in the way of exhibitions etc. with whatever I construct.
Also, the Graham Lowe/Norm Bray combo have got us another one:http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/8053051937/

More detail of what I think is a bagging machine for briquettes.

Regards,
              Andrew G.



  CAP_gauge Junior Train Controller

An interesting and highly detailed aerial view of Fitzroy station area can be found on the State Library's website here:

http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/21174

The caption details say that it dates from 1925-1935. Judging by the road vehicles in the picture it might be closer to 1925 I think, in which case the briquette shed would be quite new, as briquettes only went on sale around 1924.

Frank
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
An interesting and highly detailed aerial view of Fitzroy station area can be found on the State Library's website here:

http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/21174

The caption details say that it dates from 1925-1935. Judging by the road vehicles in the picture it might be closer to 1925 I think, in which case the briquette shed would be quite new, as briquettes only went on sale around 1924.

Frank
"CAP_gauge"


G'day Cap_gauge and thank-you for searching out this photo. 'Bullocked' had brought it to my attention on Sept 15th (see his post on this thread), along with another one from a different direction. However I do appreciate you spending the time to find it and tell me about it. Your comments about the dating of the photo is also appreciated.  I think we would all agree that the resolution on these photos is amazing.
Regards,
              Andrew G.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Here are my photos of Fitzroy - unfortunately, like most of us at the time, our interests were on the locos rather than the infrastructure (which was a term nobody had heard of in 1976).


K153 standing at Fitzroy after arriving on an ARE tour, 18Jul76



There was some shunting to be done in order to run round the train, which provided this opportunity to photograph the K shunting SAR stock.


On 5 Oct 78 I visited Fitzroy again, this time to photograph the daily goods train.




  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
Here are my photos of Fitzroy - unfortunately, like most of us at the time, our interests were on the locos rather than the infrastructure (which was a term nobody had heard of in 1976).


K153 standing at Fitzroy after arriving on an ARE tour, 18Jul76



There was some shunting to be done in order to run round the train, which provided this opportunity to photograph the K shunting SAR stock.


On 5 Oct 78 I visited Fitzroy again, this time to photograph the daily goods train.



"duttonbay"

G'day Dutton Bay,
                            Thank-you  for searching out and scanning these photos. Not only do they show shunting moves extending out into the Edinburgh gardens, which I did expect, but also an X class on duty! There is also a clear photo of the Foresta/Canterbury Timber sheds that is a good help in working out that part of the infrastructure. Also a good view of one of the conveyor belts  used for briquettes.
 The X class photos are dated 1978 and the Bunge shed has yet to receive the extension on the Yards Foreman's Office end, which is clearly visible in the photos taken after the rails were lifted. Thank-you again!
Norm Bray/Grahame Lowe have delivered again on the briquette delivery front:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/8066116653/
 some more at FLICKR by High Bicyclist:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80109267@N03/8050302522/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80109267@N03/7955081486/ - a T class!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80109267@N03/8023227293/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80109267@N03/8050299677/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80109267@N03/7999473824/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80109267@N03/7990389798/

My next major focus is on how on earth do you shunt this yard, especially the late 1970's. It must have been a mongrel of a job without some forethought and careful planning.
Regards,
            Andrew G.









  CAP_gauge Junior Train Controller

Probing in Trove I found an item titled "Briquettes Stolen: Thief caught at depot: Exciting Midnight Struggle" in The Argus, 26 April 1926.

The interesting thing is that this news item says the briquette store at Fitzroy railway station "has only been established for several weeks", but in that time more than three tons of briquettes had been stolen.

The whole news item can be found here:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3747511


  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
Probing in Trove I found an item titled "Briquettes Stolen: Thief caught at depot: Exciting Midnight Struggle" in The Argus, 26 April 1926.

The interesting thing is that this news item says the briquette store at Fitzroy railway station "has only been established for several weeks", but in that time more than three tons of briquettes had been stolen.

The whole news item can be found here:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3747511

"CAP_gauge"


And in this day and age Mr Fleming, the Briquette Depot OIC, would be charged by the thief with assault & battery or some such!
Thanks for finding this gem. The 3 ton figure also high lights that some people were probably living in extreme poverty, and you couldn't hang a briquette skin on the fence to show you stole it because you were desperate.
  GrahameLowe Beginner

PHOTOGRAPHS & TRAINS......FITZROY GOODS 1982
Hello there...
I took many photographs along the line from the junction at Royal Park to the 'junction' at North Fitzroy and the terminus cum goods yard at Fitzroy Goods.   Unfortunately, these were taken with a simple Kodak instamatic at the time so the quality may not be as good as if I'd had used a proper 35mm SLR at the time - these are the photographs that Norm Bray is kindly uploading to his Flickr account as mentioned earlier.   During my visits in 1982 most of the traffic was for Bunge Flour and the Briquette Depot.   I have note books of several visits.   Locomotives that I saw were either B class or X class.   Brakevans were ZLP (VVBP)   Briquette traffic was being conveyed in ELX (VOBX), ANR GOX (AOOX), GY and OBf open vehicles.   I actually saw a train arrive with X-2xGY-2xAOOX-GY-OBf-ZLP which may have been against the rules as I seem to remember restrictions on coupling long wheelbase vehicles to fixed wheelbase 4 wheelers?   Bagged flour arrived for Bunge in VLCX vans and probably VBBX vans as well.   I also remember seeing at least once (and photographing a NSW open wagon.   I just need tp find my notebooks!   I hope this may help - emailed me at grahame217@hotmail.com for further info...Grahame
  GrahameLowe Beginner

Hello again...
I have three or four small photo albums of the pictures I took and some notebook entries detailing wagons present etc (and a hand drawn sketch of the track layouts of both Fitzroy Goods and Nth Fitzroy Junction)   They are available for loan too.   I live at Heathcote Junction and am usually at the Hobsons Bay MRC clubrooms on a Saturday night...for some reason I took a LOT of pics of infrastructure along the line!   As to the issue of banking, I did see a goods travelling uphill out of Flemington Bridge station during the late 1970's with a B at either end - this may have been heading to Fitzroy Goods or further up the Upfield line to Chrysler etc. ??  I have heard that negotiating the 'flagged' level crossing could be a rather interesting process ie Nicholson Street and St. Georges Road too.   Auscision for the VBBX vans, GY and AOOX opens.   TrainOrama for the VVBP vans (ZLP brakevans)  Orient Models for the OBf open wagons.   Powerline and/or Austrains for the VOBX (ELX) opens....I always thought it would make a nice model.   For a time in the early 1980's, North Fotzroy always seemed to be full of GY wagons at the silo as well....Grahame
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
Hello again...I have three or four small photo albums of the pictures I took and some notebook entries detailing wagons present etc (and a hand drawn sketch of the track layouts of both Fitzroy Goods and Nth Fitzroy Junction) They are available for loan too. I live at Heathcote Junction and am usually at the Hobsons Bay MRC clubrooms on a Saturday night...for some reason I took a LOT of pics of infrastructure along the line! As to the issue of banking, I did see a goods travelling uphill out of Flemington Bridge station during the late 1970's with a B at either end - this may have been heading to Fitzroy Goods or further up the Upfield line to Chrysler etc. ?? I have heard that negotiating the 'flagged' level crossing could be a rather interesting process ie Nicholson Street and St. Georges Road too. Auscision for the VBBX vans, GY and AOOX opens. TrainOrama for the VVBP vans (ZLP brakevans) Orient Models for the OBf open wagons. Powerline and/or Austrains for the VOBX (ELX) opens....I always thought it would make a nice model. For a time in the early 1980's, North Fotzroy always seemed to be full of GY wagons at the silo as well....Grahame
"GrahameLowe"

G'day Grahame,
                       for the present a very short but large thank-you to yourself for making these photo's available and to Norm Bray for posting them on FLICKR, they are an incredible help and encouragement. Never down play the Instamatic camera, it took the photo's, which is heaps better than no photo's.   I have just spent an on and off day scanning and uploading to FLICKR some of my `black and whites' from my Ballarat days (1978-80). Not top quality, but recording interesting stuff all the same, including a trip to the inner workings of Ballarat North Workshops. See at:

There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of unique photos hiding in boxes that hold information someone wants to know but the owners feel unsure about placing them in public view because of perceived poor quality. Hang that! Get 'em out, scan and show!
Thanks again for posting and the offer of further information, will get back Monday.
Regards, Andrew G.
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
Hello again...I have three or four small photo albums of the pictures I took and some notebook entries detailing wagons present etc (and a hand drawn sketch of the track layouts of both Fitzroy Goods and Nth Fitzroy Junction) They are available for loan too. I live at Heathcote Junction and am usually at the Hobsons Bay MRC clubrooms on a Saturday night...for some reason I took a LOT of pics of infrastructure along the line! As to the issue of banking, I did see a goods travelling uphill out of Flemington Bridge station during the late 1970's with a B at either end - this may have been heading to Fitzroy Goods or further up the Upfield line to Chrysler etc. ?? I have heard that negotiating the 'flagged' level crossing could be a rather interesting process ie Nicholson Street and St. Georges Road too. Auscision for the VBBX vans, GY and AOOX opens. TrainOrama for the VVBP vans (ZLP brakevans) Orient Models for the OBf open wagons. Powerline and/or Austrains for the VOBX (ELX) opens....I always thought it would make a nice model. For a time in the early 1980's, North Fotzroy always seemed to be full of GY wagons at the silo as well....Grahame
"GrahameLowe"

G'day Grahame,
for the present a very short but large thank-you to yourself for making these photo's available and to Norm Bray for posting them on FLICKR, they are an incredible help and encouragement. Never down play the Instamatic camera, it took the photo's, which is heaps better than no photo's. I have just spent an on and off day scanning and uploading to FLICKR some of my `black and whites' from my Ballarat days (1978-80). Not top quality, but recording interesting stuff all the same, including a trip to the inner workings of Ballarat North Workshops. See at:

There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of unique photos hiding in boxes that hold information someone wants to know but the owners feel unsure about placing them in public view because of perceived poor quality. Hang that! Get 'em out, scan and show!
Thanks again for posting and the offer of further information, will get back Monday.
Regards, Andrew G.
"TTrakAndrew"


G'day All, the Grahame Lowe- Norm Bray partnership are heading for a century with 69 (my quick count) photos of the Fitzroy Goods Yard North Fitzroy Station and in between, plus some Royal Park images at:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=fitzroy&w=60901191%40N08&s=rec
This is wonderful, thanks guys. Will write more tomorrow as my own scanning uploading to FLICKR got a bit addictive this week.
Andrew G.
  GrahameLowe Beginner

FITZROY GOODS 1980
Having finally located my sketchbook for Fitzroy Goods, I thought I might share my observations with you.   I was also delighted to be told at Hobsons Bay Model Railway Club last night that people seem interested in my photographs - who would've thought so when I took them all those years ago huh?  
27/03/1980
No. 1 Road (adjacent Briquette Depot): NSWPTC BDX - VR VOBX (empties)
No. 1 Road (Up side of trailing crossover to No. 2 Road adjacent unloader): NSWPTC bogie open (Listed in notes as HCG but not sure correct)
No. 1 Road (adjacent Timber Yard): GY-GY-ANR AOOX (briquettes)
No. 3 Road (Bunge Flour warehouse): VLX-VSX (vans)

Industries located at Fitzroy Goods:
1. Briquette Depot
2. Canterbury Timber Co.
3. National Can Company
4. Carlton & United Breweries (rail served hopper on No. 3 Road)
5. 'Bunge' Flour
There was an additional rail service hopper on No. 4 Road too...?

03/04/1980
No. 1 Road (adjacent Timber Yard): GY-GY-GY-GY-GY-GY-GY-GY-OBf-VOBX-VOBX (loaded briquettes)
No. 1 Road (Up side of trailing crossover to No. 2 Road adjacent unloader): VOBX (being unloaded)
No. 3 Road (Bunge Flour warehouse): VLX

09/04/1980
No. 1 Road (adjacent Briquette Depot): GY-GY-GY-GY_GY-GY...GY-GY-GY (empties)
No. 1 Road (Up side of trailing crossover to No. 2 Road adjacent unloader): VOBX (being unloaded)
No. 1 Road (adjacent Timber Yard): VOBX-VOBX (loaded with briquettes)...Of-OBf (timber loading being unloaded)
No. 4 Road (adjacent National Can Co.): GY (empty)
No. 3 Road (between footbridge and CUB Hopper): VLCX
No. 3 Road (Bunge Flour warehouse): VLCX-VLCX

17/04/1980
No. 1 Road (Up side of trailing crossover to No. 2 Road adjacent unloader): GY-ANR GOX (being unloaded)
No. 3 Road (Bunge Flour warehouse): GY-VLCX
No. 1 Road (adjacent Briquette Depot): ANR AOOX-OBf-VOBX-ANR GBX-CR AOOX
Down 'Fitzroy Goods':   X36-ANR AOMX-ANR Of-ANR AOOX-ZLP
No. 1 Road (adjacent Timber Yard): AOOX-NSWPTC HGW (loaded with briquettes)

Hope this is of interest!

22/04/1980
No. 1 Road (adjacent Briquette Depot): VOBX-NSWPTC BDX-GY-GY-VOBX
No. 1 Road (Up side of trailing crossover to No. 2 Road adjacent unloader): OBf-OBF-AOOX
No. 3 Road (Bunge Flour warehouse): VLCX-VLCX
No. 3 Road (under footbridge): VLCX (empty)
No. 4 Road (under footbridge): GY (empty)
  cageyr Locomotive Fireman

Just as a matter of interest, the new Train Hobby Publications book, "Melbourne's Industrial and Suburban Sidings" has 3 photos of Fitzroy goods yard, two from the late '50's and one from 1981.

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