2016 End of an Era Commodore vs Falcon

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE






GM (I think Holden will go as a brand name)

"RTT_Rules"


You think so? GM would be very stupid to drop the Holden brand name no matter what they produce as it has enormous affinity among Australians.

"TheBlacksmith"


The same ones who have been abandoning the Commodore and other Aussie made cars for cheaper and at times lower quality or more expensive cars from OS.

What GM has been doing with the Holden brand over recent years doesn't leave much confidence.

Sponsored advertisement

  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
Exactly RTT, looking at the other GM brands coming on the market it's only a matter of time before Holden becomes no more.
  Draffa Chief Commissioner


Tony Abbott on the Today Show last year...
"Jim K"
If Tony Abbott said it, it's probably wrong.  There's some perfectly capable people on the Opposition benches, but Tony isn't one of them.

Holden did have a short and notoriously unsuccessful experiment in the early 80's with a four cylinder donk under the Commodore hood
"2001"
Which was replaced by the similarly unsuccessful Camira...
"Graham4405"
The Camira replaced the (by then, FWD) Gemini (which continued to be manufactured elsewhere for years to come).

If I were to buy a new 'commuter' car these days, it'd probably end up being a iMIEV or something.  Failing that, a Focus or a Camry Hybrid.  If I were to buy a performance car, it'd be a FPV, hands down.
However, my garage contains a 1976 Gemini, and a 1985 Bombadore (only registered for load-carrying, and soon to be deregistered).  The Gemini is still a lot of fun to drive, since it's been lowered, fat sticky tires, Nolathane suspension etc.  But my daily driver is now Mums 1996-ish Pulsar.  That car just goes without a worry.  It's the Gemini of the 90's (can't kill them). As a commuter vehicle, it's all you need; comfortable, decent acceleration, reasonable fuel economy.  Mum's not driving it right now because she went and bought a 'Holden' Captiva, which is a perfectly nice SUV, with all the mod-cons, but I have my doubts about its longevity and running costs.  Seats are as hard as marble, though.

  Carnot Minister for Railways


Around 20 years ago a Falcon or Commodore cost less than half that of the cheapest Mercedes (a C-180).

Today's cheapest Merc costs less than both today:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/new-mercedes-benz-a-class-is-cheaper-than-a-holden-commodore/story-fncynkc6-1226587139606

Although it should be said that the cheapest RWD Merc today still costs more (about $60K, and it has a stupidly high profit margin).

  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy

So far Mitsubishi seems to have escaped scrutiny.

I have had an extraordinarily good run with Sigmas and Lancers.  I'm on my second Lancer, a VRX,  now 5 years old and it has had nothing except routine maintenance. Up to 165,000 km now and time for a replacement timing belt which will be the biggest surgery it has had.
Three previous Sigmas and one Lancer, all company cars, performed faultlessly.  The last car I went rallying in was a Lancer GRX in the late '70's and it went like the clappers.
I'm in no doubt about what I'll buy next.

  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide



So far Mitsubishi seems to have escaped scrutiny.

I have had an extraordinarily good run with Sigmas and Lancers. I'm on my second Lancer, a VRX, now 5 years old and it has had nothing except routine maintenance. Up to 165,000 km now and time for a replacement timing belt which will be the biggest surgery it has had.
Three previous Sigmas and one Lancer, all company cars, performed faultlessly. The last car I went rallying in was a Lancer GRX in the late '70's and it went like the clappers.
I'm in no doubt about what I'll buy next.

"Valvegear"


Didn't the Leyland Brothers drive across Australian in a Sigma?

  Carnot Minister for Railways




So far Mitsubishi seems to have escaped scrutiny.

I have had an extraordinarily good run with Sigmas and Lancers. I'm on my second Lancer, a VRX, now 5 years old and it has had nothing except routine maintenance. Up to 165,000 km now and time for a replacement timing belt which will be the biggest surgery it has had.
Three previous Sigmas and one Lancer, all company cars, performed faultlessly. The last car I went rallying in was a Lancer GRX in the late '70's and it went like the clappers.
I'm in no doubt about what I'll buy next.

"Valvegear"


Mitsubishi Motors Australia made Galants in the 1970s, Sigmas in the late 70s - mid-80s, Colts in the 80s, Magnas from 1986 to 2005, and finally the 380 sedan before it went under a few years later.

Some models were quite tough and capable cars, but they had some shockers - the first Magnas were notorious for Auto trans failures and conrods flying out of engine blocks, the 1996-97 Magna often had valve-stem seal woes....

The 380 was a much better car than some people make it out to be, especially the sportier VRX & GT versions which could really hustle along.

  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld



I have had an extraordinarily good run with Sigmas and Lancers.

"Valvegear"


Seems you must have got lucky. I've known several "bits are missing" owners (including myself) who have had a lot of trouble with theirs, not limited to any particular period of history or model...

  Speed Minister for Railways

Julia has since reduced the 10% to 5%... it just means that we have to find the money to help build your Falcon or Commodore from somewhere else... income tax!
"johnboy"
Gillard had as much bearing on that as she had the discontinuance of the single-parents' allowance.

The tariff reduction schedule was set by Keating/Dawkins around twenty years ago. Gillard/Swan did nothing to stop it but have had ample opportunity to raise new taxes if they thought it necessary. The Howard and Gillard governments both introduced significant new taxes, even if the Gillard Government is most known for a tax that was intended as a temporary precursor to an emissions trading scheme.

(The schedule for discontinuing single-parent allowances was set by Howard/Costello)

As Shane points out, Australia's history of tariffs means that people are still prepared to pay high prices for cars, even as the tariffs have been reduced. More of those generous (albeit reduced) profit margins go offshore now.

Abbott's mad ideas was explained about a year ago about this subject. He plans to not so much get rid of Tariff as that is income, he wants to get rid of the "gift" to car companies.

A good story in SMH
"johnboy"
In the Gillard's car plan thread, three themes are:
  • Cars are argued to be important to national identity. Like the Greens, people in the right of the Liberal-National coalition are coming up with arguments for why a motor industry, above other industries in the manufacturing sector, is important for society eg Joyce argues a defence necessity.
  • Abbott tries to promote himself as a knockabout bloke, in contrast to Rudd or that red-haired woman who worked for Slater & Gordon before she became a politician. Welding metal cars together is a blokey vocation that he wants to be seen as defending (say, by reducing the price of energy), not bringing into the modern world.
  • Abbott is quoted as saying that the Coalition supported a viable motor industry, but that the government's policy of subsidies ''have let a lot of people down''. Past subsidies have been contingent on the recipients devising vehicles with lower emissions, or other innovations, in Australia. Maybe, such conditions can be liberalised/deregulated to please some disappointed Australians. Mirabella is also reported as saying that she was devising a new "post-2015 assistance package".
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!

Rather than continue to prop up two competing and declining cars maybe it's time to rationalise this significant spend and have a Common or Faldore.

Regardless fewer people these days are swayed by the country of origin - family & friends, looks, price and features seem to sway most. Admittedly I'm surprised by the number of Great Wall utes around.

  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork

Admittedly I'm surprised by the number of Great Wall utes around.
"cootanee"


Yeah, me too as they are crap and rate poorly in crash tests.

  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy

I'm surprised by the number of Great Wall utes around.
"cootanee"


Why?  They're cheap.  

I guess people will subsequently discover that you get what you pay for.

  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork



I'm surprised by the number of Great Wall utes around.
"cootanee"


Why? They're cheap.

I guess people will subsequently discover that you get what you pay for.

"Valvegear"


A good part of my business is built around the concept that you do get what you pay for - and they are still discovering that - to my profit.

  Draffa Chief Commissioner


I'm pretty sure that someone else has mentioned it, but part of the decline of the local car industry is that cars are increasingly seen by prospective purchasers as an appliance.  They only exixt to get you from A to B in reasonable comfort.  As long as it's got a decent stereo, comfy seats, and air-con, it'll do.  If it only lasts five years, so be it; a new one is cheap.  To this end, prices are knocked down, styling is homogenised within each parent brand, parts commonality is increased, and differentiation is largely reduced.  People aren't buying Great Walls and Cherry's because they particularly like them; they're buying them, in large part, because they're cheap and, for day-to-day useage, do the job just as well as a more established name.  Hence why we get what is arguably pretty average vehicles like the Cruze selling well.

There's a backlash at the same time: car enthusiasts (admittedly a small market) are demaning more differentiation in their purchases, and this has seen a revival in interest of older cars which are argued to have 'soul'.

As a benefit for people who don't want/need a new car, and aren't after an enthusiasts' vehicle, this has seen a flood of perfectly servicable models onto the 2nd-hand market at knock-down prices.  I just acquired a 2001 AU Falcon Wagon to replace the clapped-out Commodore for just $1500.  Full service history, intact upholstery, all the buttons work, and more power under the right foot than is useful.  Sure, it's the ugly step-sister (although, being a Wagon, it's not nearly as bad as the sedan), but as a 'commuter' car, there's nothing wrong with it.

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE



I'm pretty sure that someone else has mentioned it, but part of the decline of the local car industry is that cars are increasingly seen by prospective purchasers as an appliance. They only exixt to get you from A to B in reasonable comfort. As long as it's got a decent stereo, comfy seats, and air-con, it'll do. If it only lasts five years, so be it; a new one is cheap. To this end, prices are knocked down, styling is homogenised within each parent brand, parts commonality is increased, and differentiation is largely reduced. People aren't buying Great Walls and Cherry's because they particularly like them; they're buying them, in large part, because they're cheap and, for day-to-day useage, do the job just as well as a more established name. Hence why we get what is arguably pretty average vehicles like the Cruze selling well.

There's a backlash at the same time: car enthusiasts (admittedly a small market) are demaning more differentiation in their purchases, and this has seen a revival in interest of older cars which are argued to have 'soul'.

As a benefit for people who don't want/need a new car, and aren't after an enthusiasts' vehicle, this has seen a flood of perfectly servicable models onto the 2nd-hand market at knock-down prices. I just acquired a 2001 AU Falcon Wagon to replace the clapped-out Commodore for just $1500. Full service history, intact upholstery, all the buttons work, and more power under the right foot than is useful. Sure, it's the ugly step-sister (although, being a Wagon, it's not nearly as bad as the sedan), but as a 'commuter' car, there's nothing wrong with it.

"Draffa"


For a viable local car industry you need either large local market and/or good export market. High $A makes the later hard, but not impossible as Toyota has proven. What has hurt the local market the most is the local market is now no longer focused on a limited range of car. In the "good old days" it was small, medium, big car, 4x4 serious with numerous options for local produced. Now its also the Micro's, hybred's, 4x4 serious, 4x4 hard, 4x4 soft, 4x4 2WD look alikes, more affluence/lower $ means more people buying more exotic cars than before, more manufactures from SE asia. Brand loyality is dying, people don't drive into the dealer to upgrade with for the next model, they look at all the cars. Just look at the new car dealer 2nd car yards, the brand of the dealer is not reflected in their 2nd hand car yard.

The middle east imports cars in a simple manner, basic, medium or top options only. Options ontop of this are almost non-existant apart from window tinting and anti-rust. The locals buy them to drive them wth few modifications, many don't even remove the delivery seat plastic etc. I agree with Draffa, this is becoming more like Australia apart from leaving the delivery protection in place.

I'm also happy to let new car buys take the bulk of the finacial hit and buy their 3-4 year old cast offs. Large 10 year old cars for less than $5000 in good condition (which are far better, more reliable, less engine problems than 10 year old cars 20 years ago) is truely a bargin and who cars about the fuel consumption when the capital outlay is minimal.

  Carnot Minister for Railways




I'm pretty sure that someone else has mentioned it, but part of the decline of the local car industry is that cars are increasingly seen by prospective purchasers as an appliance. They only exixt to get you from A to B in reasonable comfort. As long as it's got a decent stereo, comfy seats, and air-con, it'll do. If it only lasts five years, so be it; a new one is cheap. To this end, prices are knocked down, styling is homogenised within each parent brand, parts commonality is increased, and differentiation is largely reduced. People aren't buying Great Walls and Cherry's because they particularly like them; they're buying them, in large part, because they're cheap and, for day-to-day useage, do the job just as well as a more established name. Hence why we get what is arguably pretty average vehicles like the Cruze selling well.

There's a backlash at the same time: car enthusiasts (admittedly a small market) are demaning more differentiation in their purchases, and this has seen a revival in interest of older cars which are argued to have 'soul'.

As a benefit for people who don't want/need a new car, and aren't after an enthusiasts' vehicle, this has seen a flood of perfectly servicable models onto the 2nd-hand market at knock-down prices. I just acquired a 2001 AU Falcon Wagon to replace the clapped-out Commodore for just $1500. Full service history, intact upholstery, all the buttons work, and more power under the right foot than is useful. Sure, it's the ugly step-sister (although, being a Wagon, it's not nearly as bad as the sedan), but as a 'commuter' car, there's nothing wrong with it.

"Draffa"


People buy Great Wall & Chery for the same reason they bought cheap Ladas imported from Russia in the 1980s/early 90s.  Mind you, the Niva 4x4 did have a cult following for good reason.  BTW, did you hear about the asbestos gasket scandal involving Chinese cars?

Given that large Aussie cars will become a rarer commodity in the future given poor sales today, buy one while you can.  It's true that the AU Falcon is on of the most bagged out vehicles ever made, but they were built on a solid platform and very practical.  Best to go for AU Series II & III since they had better brakes than the Series I.

  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld

It's true that the AU Falcon is on of the most bagged out vehicles ever made, but they were built on a solid platform and very practical. Best to go for AU Series II & III since they had better brakes than the Series I.
"Carnot"


I owned an AUII for just over 11 years and drove hundreds of thousands of kilometers in it without any major issues...

  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork



It's true that the AU Falcon is on of the most bagged out vehicles ever made, but they were built on a solid platform and very practical. Best to go for AU Series II & III since they had better brakes than the Series I.
"Carnot"


I owned an AUII for just over 11 years and drove hundreds of thousands of kilometers in it without any major issues...

"Graham4405"


My 2001 model has ticked over 320,000 kms, is worth 30c and just got a new set of tyres. Still going strong.

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE





It's true that the AU Falcon is on of the most bagged out vehicles ever made, but they were built on a solid platform and very practical. Best to go for AU Series II & III since they had better brakes than the Series I.
"Carnot"


I owned an AUII for just over 11 years and drove hundreds of thousands of kilometers in it without any major issues...

"Graham4405"


My 2001 model has ticked over 320,000 kms, is worth 30c and just got a new set of tyres. Still going strong.

"TheBlacksmith"


Sounds like some of my vehicles, when the fuel tank was full, the value of the vehicle doubled. With a new set of tyres, you have probably gone up 500 x.

My wife had a BA Fairmont (2nd hand purchase, at 75,000km 3.5 years old for $15k for which we traded a EF Fairmont), sold it to her mother at 125,000km at 6 year old when we left the country, she had it 3 years added 100,000km. House was broken into while she was out, they stole the keys and sight unseen came back later at night to take it. Figured they cannot be too unpopular. I just repainted and patched a dent in the door and replaced the bumper which got ripped off by a roo. Bastards. From Dubai we watched it go through E-tolls in Brisbane. Police found it, but only thing left in common was the number plate.

For cheap small cars, Suzuki Wift/Holden Barina's. Unbeatable. Few things to break, heaps of parts in wreckers. Mine had no engine cooling fan in the tropics, 4 years flogged over dirt roads, no issue.

  Speed Minister for Railways


My wife had a BA Fairmont (2nd hand purchase, at 75,000km 3.5 years old for $15k for which we traded a EF Fairmont), sold it to her mother at 125,000km at 6 year old when we left the country, she had it 3 years added 100,000km. House was broken into while she was out, they stole the keys and sight unseen came back later at night to take it. Figured they cannot be too unpopular.
"RTT_Rules"
Ten year old Falcodores used to be a popular target for theft.

There were lots of them. As they aged, there was a strong demand for spare parts. The way to get spare parts was to salvage them from other vehicles. Owners were also less careful locking the doors than they would be with a new car.

  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Media conference - let the blame game begin Rolling Eyes

http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/
  Carnot Minister for Railways

At least Ford Australia are keeping the R&D department.

They're saying 1200 workers will be retrenched.  Just to put things into perspective: in 1995 when I worked there, the total number was 7000 employees.  Several thousand more worked there in 1988 when the EA Falcon was launched.

Local suppliers will take a big hit.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is this is really the beginning of the end of vehicle manufacturing in the country?

Unfortunately Ford has been struggling for some time. Where did all my subsidies go?  What did ford spend them on?

An unfortunate circumstance for all concerned.  I hope the company spends time with their workers and can assist them in finding new roles in the workplace.

Regards
Brian
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Victorian Premier Denis Napthine knew on Wednesday that Ford would be closing car making operations in the state.

Ford Australia on Thursday confirmed it is closing its Australian car making operations from October 2016, resulting in the loss of 1200 jobs.
Ford president Bob Graziano announced the end of manufacturing at Broadmeadows and Geelong.

It follows a $141 million loss for Ford Australia in 2012-13.

Premier Napthine was in Wodonga on Thursday morning visiting a development school before touring the towns of Bundalong and Koonoomoo s hit by a tornado earlier this year.

He told journalists that he had "a discussion yesterday with Ford on a confidential basis".

“I understand they will be making a statement later today," he said.

“They are meeting with staff this morning and as soon as there is a public statement from Ford, I will be at liberty to make further statements.
“Fortunately we have strong economy in this state.”

He said Victoria had good jobs growth and that the State Government would work with the federal governement to help those people who were effected as well as businesses in the supply chain.

But he also took a swipe at the federal government, saying taxes had hurt Victoria's competitiveness through rising power prices.
"We are suffering more than other state from the job-killing carbon tax," Dr Napthine said.

The Deputy Premier and Minister for State Development, Peter Ryan, will hold a press conference following the Ford annoucement.

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/premier-knew-of-fords-jobs-news-20130523-2k2dn.html

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: RTT_Rules, wurx

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.