Train speeds of metro trains

 
  Zone3 Beginner

Hi Everyone

I was just interested to see if their is a speed limit on metro trains throughout Melbourne.

The reason I ask is I was on a train today & it was going 121km/h

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  FullSeries Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Yes, there is.
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
Hi Everyone

I was just interested to see if their is a speed limit on metro trains throughout Melbourne.

The reason I ask is I was on a train today & it was going 121km/h
"Zone3"


So you were in the drivers cab looking over his shoulder were you?
Or were you using one of those useless stupid mobile phone GPS apps?
  Zone3 Beginner

Actually a GPS I had with me. 121km/h it said.

Only reason I checked is because I could tell the train was going really fast so I turned on my gps
  712M Chief Commissioner

In an EDI Comeng, if you look through the black window from the passenger saloon to the drivers cab in the rear car you can clearly see the digital speed indicator. Particularly if it's dark outside.
  Taitset Chief Commissioner

Location: Eltham, (former) vintage safeworking capital of Melbourne
To actually answer your question, Comeng and Hitachi sets are limited to 115km/h. Siemens sets are apparently capable of 130km/h, but are currently limited to 115km/h. X'traps are designed to do 130km/h, but are currently limited to 90km/h.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

The train you were on might have had new wheels.
  spottyrahr Chief Commissioner

Actually a GPS I had with me. 121km/h it said.

Only reason I checked is because I could tell the train was going really fast so I turned on my gps
Zone3
Personal GPS are not 100% accurate.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
I'd be cautious speaking in public about how fast any particular train was allegedly travelling.  Posts here are often seen by people who could if they chose track the detail and sack the staff.  

Personal GPS can be as accurate as a train speedo but not always.  Some of the best as used by "professional" train timers are rather more accurate and can often show cases of an under- or over-reading speedo.  Most curious passengers won't be using one of those simply because of their cost.

Indicated train speed can also be affected by how worn the wheels are but I doubt that would make as much as 6kph difference at 115kph.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

As others have indicated the various types of Metro trains have different maximum potential speeds, and in some cases governed maximum speeds .

The close spacing of Metro stations makes maximum train speeds largely irrelevant on the Metro network , and it is only on the outer fringes of some lines like Werribee, Pakenham, Craigieburn and Sunbury that a line speed max of 115kmh is allowed for sparks .

The more important aspect in Melbourne is the average speed which can best be maximized through improved acceleration and braking characteristics offered by the newer train types , minimizing station dwell times, eliminating level crossings, straightening track layouts etc .  

For many years for the above reasons the old VR/Vicrail track standard for the Metropolitan area was basically 107lb rail on wooden sleepers, maintained to Class-3 track standard allowing a maximum speed of 100kmh  for sparks . (and usually a lesser speed for loco hauled as reduced braking characteristics)    It was only with extension of suburban operations to Pakenham, Werribee etc on what was already Class-2 track that spark operations were extended to allow 115kmh in the outer areas where distances between stops were greater and the 115kmh could indeed be reached.

The Comeng trains actually take quite a distance to get wound up to 115kmh, compared to their newer cousins.
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Want to travel really fast on a spark, travel on the Mandurah line in Perth.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Or the Rocky tilt train in Queensland.  Neither of which are anywhere near World's best speeds but neither are they on dedicated high-speed international lines such as the European 300kph routes.
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Or the Rocky tilt train in Queensland.  Neither of which are anywhere near World's best speeds but neither are they on dedicated high-speed international lines such as the European 300kph routes.
Gwiwer

Yeah we are not the fastest in the world. I was thinking of mentioning the trains overseas and why don't we have trains like that here but..hey I can't find the emoticon with bashing his head against the wall.
  FullSeries Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
New wheels or wheels down to the condemning line can have a drastic change on the speedo if not set correctly. Newer trains compensate for wheel diameter, older trains don't.

In NSW, trains are given a +/- 10% on the posted speed, leway.
  ReTreadDriver Beginner

The Siemens has a "hard" limit... at 119 km/h an overspeed warning is triggered, giving the driver a few seconds to get back under that limit. Ignoring it results in a power cut and penalty brake application, requiring the train to stop before it can be reset.

Hitachis and Comengs generally start giving fault lights and have motors drop in and out at around 120 km/h (some lower than that - say over 110!) They are pretty much running out of puff at those speeds anyway, due to the way they're geared and wired. Given a long steep downhill, however...

X'Traps were originally ordered for a network who's top speed was 95 km/h, and were set up for that. The 90 km/h limit was imposed later due to rough riding. They will happily sail through that limit if allowed to, however the brakes were also originally set up for a 95 km/h maximum, so that's their limit. I'm sure the brakes could be adjusted with a software change, but with the current combination of hard springs and rough track, no one would drive them at higher speeds.

Maximum allowed speeds vary around the network, but as has been posted earlier, none are higher than 115 km/h.
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
Maximum allowed speeds vary around the network, but as has been posted earlier, none are higher than 115 km/h.
ReTreadDriver
Do you mean regarding the track, or the trains? What about areas where the electrification has creeped into the RFR network?
  ReTreadDriver Beginner

Do you mean regarding the track, or the trains? What about areas where the electrification has creeped into the RFR network?
Flygon
Well, the thread is about Metro trains, so I'm talking about Metro train speeds. Our highest speed limit anywhere is 115 km/h.
It's the same with Diesel hauled trains -  they are limited to 115 km/h (100 for P class or H cars...) even in areas where Velos can do 160.

I'm sure that the Metro fleet could be set up for higher speeds, but then you also run into signal sighting issues, headways, etc.  A lot of effort, for not a lot of gain, given that there are only areas where we run at top speed.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I'm sure that the Metro fleet could be set up for higher speeds, but then you also run into signal sighting issues, headways, etc.  A lot of effort, for not a lot of gain, given that there are only areas where we run at top speed.
ReTreadDriver
Bingo - a lot of speed limits are set based around the signalling system. No point having a 115km/h section of track with signals every 500m - applying the brakes the first reduced aspect wouldn't be enough!

I'm always amused that people feel the need to come on here and say with certainty that their GPS logger must be 100% correct and the trains speedo (or driver) must be in the wrong. The thought that THEIR instrument might be incorrect never crosses their mind...
  Skipdaddyo Chief Train Controller

Location: Living the dream
There's only two places on the network where a spark could get to that sort of speed - Diggers Rest to Watergardens (up), Newport to Laverton (both directions).

Some other maybes...

Dandenong to Hallam.
Beaconsfield to Officer.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
There's only two places on the network where a spark could get to that sort of speed - Diggers Rest to Watergardens (up), Newport to Laverton (both directions).

Some other maybes...

Dandenong to Hallam.
Beaconsfield to Officer.
Skipdaddyo
OR... perhaps a runaway from Broadmeadows to Spencer St Wink

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/03/1044122326344.html
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
There's only two places on the network where a spark could get to that sort of speed - Diggers Rest to Watergardens (up), Newport to Laverton (both directions).

Some other maybes...

Dandenong to Hallam.
Beaconsfield to Officer.
Skipdaddyo
Not "maybes..." Sparks (especially Siemens) regularly travel at 115kmph Dandenong to Narre Warren and Beaconsfield to Officer to Cardinia Road, and a skillful driver can pull 115 even between Cardinia Road and Pakenham. Also Between Dandenong and Cranbourne 115 running is required to keep to timetable.  Broadmeadows to Craigeburn is another section of line which has sparks running at 115 all the time!Very Happy
  Tribitaka Station Master

Does anyone know why trains go slow on the section of track between Flinders and Spencer St?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Does anyone know why trains go slow on the section of track between Flinders and Spencer St?
Tribitaka
Hi and welcome to the Forum. Many posters here would consider that to be a ridiculous question. There are several reasons why trains go slow between Southern Cross & Flinders Street stations.

Among them are:

  • Sharp curve on the viaduct.
  • Many points and crossovers.
  • Signals and trips are spaced very close together.
  • Congestion in the platforms at Flinders St.
  • Short distance between the two stations doesn't allow for any real speed to be attained.

Mike.
  Skipdaddyo Chief Train Controller

Location: Living the dream
Not "maybes..." Sparks (especially Siemens) regularly travel at 115kmph Dandenong to Narre Warren and Beaconsfield to Officer to Cardinia Road, and a skillful driver can pull 115 even between Cardinia Road and Pakenham. Also Between Dandenong and Cranbourne 115 running is required to keep to timetable.  Broadmeadows to Craigeburn is another section of line which has sparks running at 115 all the time!Very Happy
L1150
Wasn't talking about 115, was responding to the OP who said they'd clocked a spark at 121...  Which rules out a Siemens (for more than a second or two).

I'd hate to be on a train doing 115 between Cardinia Rd and Pakenham...  15 over the speed restriction...

I'll withdraw Beaconsfield to Officer - 115 yes, 121 no...

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