October 2013 Timetable

 
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Whoever it was that argued that I don't live in Sydney, that is a really stupid argument.  If that makes me not worth reading, it should be easy enough to knock down my argument.  The point is, is what I was saying true.  I hope there isn't a rule against replying to a deleted post, if it was deleted for another reason.
simonl
Whilst I agree with you, the point was that since you don't live in Sydney, you don't experience it on a day to day basis.

Since I live in the Blue Mountains, I also don't experience it on a day to day basis. Someone living in Melbourne is equally unfounded to make a comment on the utility of the timetable, since they don't work with it on a day to day basis.

It would almost be like me telling QR to keep the DG track free for three hours so that the XPT can get out of BrisVegaas as soon as it is ready, and everything else be damned.

I know a lot of what goes on up there, as I do with the appropriate line in question here, but if you live 800km away you really aren't qaliaified to make an INFORMED comment.

Dave

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  mboi84 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney
I think we just have to wait and see what Gladys releases really, though I think (and I am speculating, seeming as Gladys has also hinted at this) that we will see more interchanging for services/lines. This could be because of the separation of operations between Sydney Trains & NSW TrainLink respectfully.

I know that Gladys has hinted both when she was in opposition and as current transport minister, that the current model of getting on any train within the network brings you to the city and I have to agree. Given the City Circle tunnels have up to 4 lines running through them at any one time. It wouldn't surprise me if there is going to be interchanging a lot but I guess this could be more during off peak periods rather than peak periods, but I could be wrong.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
[edit]
Try #2 stay on topic, the matter of where one lives is  off topic and  is now  definately off topic. Will lock thread if we continue to carry on about it. -

Yes deleted  posts were removed from this thread, and recently too, replying to continue an off topic debate is also not required, for the benifit of all , drop it.

The timetable issue is enough !
[/edit]
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Excuse me for a minute, get lost you annoying mosquito!

Would anyone know if their are any differences on these three trains please? 06:12 & 08:04 Newcastle to Sydney, and the 17:15 Sydney to Newcastle, especially in relation to the stops on the 06:12.

Some say their is about a 5 minute saving. When they say Newcastle, I hope they actually mean "Newcastle"?
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Hopefully they will be doing something about the Bathurst service. Five minutes dwell at Parramatta, 12 minutes at Penrith five at Springwood (on the occasions I have caught it) - only five stops between Central and Lithgow, and it is only about 10 minutes faster than a spark.

Dave
  mboi84 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney
Hopefully they will be doing something about the Bathurst service. Five minutes dwell at Parramatta, 12 minutes at Penrith five at Springwood (on the occasions I have caught it) - only five stops between Central and Lithgow, and it is only about 10 minutes faster than a spark.

Dave
thadocta
Can't stand that service. If it's running late (which lately over the last few weeks by about 5-10 mins or so) it always causes issues for western line trains directly behind it. The only thing though was I believed that the NSW Government promised the service and placed it into some sort of legislation (not sure if they did but could have been a policy) of which would be hard to backtrack from.

I think they should have the Bathurst Bullet terminate at Penrith and everyone interchanges for spark services to the city. Doe anyone know what the frequency of trains will be to from the west to the city and vice versa in the morning/afternoon peak periods??
  Johnny_Walton Railcorp Crash Test Dummy No.1

Location: Flemington Maintenance Centre
From what I know already:

- The draft 2013 timetable has been released (to railcorp staff)
- The Inner West Line will no longer run to Liverpool (due to turnbacks and signage not showing IW info at Regents Pk etc.)
- Obvious more services on East Hills line following K2RQ works
- Possibility (but not confirmed) of end of direct Richmond-City services during peak hours
- Daily Cumberland Services to return
kypros1992

I do believe kypros 1992 may have some answers for us all VERY soon.

Jono.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Can't stand that service. If it's running late (which lately over the last few weeks by about 5-10 mins or so) it always causes issues for western line trains directly behind it. The only thing though was I believed that the NSW Government promised the service and placed it into some sort of legislation (not sure if they did but could have been a policy) of which would be hard to backtrack from.

I think they should have the Bathurst Bullet terminate at Penrith and everyone interchanges for spark services to the city. Doe anyone know what the frequency of trains will be to from the west to the city and vice versa in the morning/afternoon peak periods??
"mboi84"


West services depart every 5-15 minutes in peak. Just look at the timetable yourself. If you haven't noticed already there's a thread for "I want this and this done to the timetable", to prevent users getting pissed off.

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1829108.htm#1829108
  Camo3801 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Western Sydney
I would like to see the following:

2 down and 2 up Flyer Services to Newcastle a day, the 2 up services in the morning (Newcastle, Broadmeadow, Cardiff, Fassifern, Morriset, Gosford(set down only), Hornsby(set down only), Central) and 2 down in the afternoon pick (reverse stopping pattern)

Cumberland line Services every 30mins between Campbelltown/Liverpool and Schofields between 7am and 5pm, which in turn creates an all stops service between Schofields and Parramatta every 15 mins.

The Bathurst Bullet service timetable fixed so it's not constantly waiting, possible crossing another up service between Katoomba and Springwood.

Some of the Katoomba/Lithgow bound services in the mid-afternoon extended to 6 or 8 cars, especially with the school kids at Strathfield and Parramatta at those times.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
OHMYGOD

I would like to see the following:

2 down and 2 up Flyer Services to Newcastle a day, the 2 up services in the morning (Newcastle, Broadmeadow, Cardiff, Fassifern, Morriset, Gosford(set down only), Hornsby(set down only), Central) and 2 down in the afternoon pick (reverse stopping pattern)

Cumberland line Services every 30mins between Campbelltown/Liverpool and Schofields between 7am and 5pm, which in turn creates an all stops service between Schofields and Parramatta every 15 mins.

The Bathurst Bullet service timetable fixed so it's not constantly waiting, possible crossing another up service between Katoomba and Springwood.

Some of the Katoomba/Lithgow bound services in the mid-afternoon extended to 6 or 8 cars, especially with the school kids at Strathfield and Parramatta at those times.
"Camo3801"


Go nuts, [b]HERE[/b].

Thank me later.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/winners-and-losers-all-change-in-rail-revamp-20130516-2jpeu.html


Sydney's biggest train timetable change in almost a decade will include an extra 700 services a week - but some commuters will miss out when trains skip certain stations.

   The timetable will be the most significant for Sydney's rail system since 2005.

A draft of the October timetable, obtained by Fairfax Media, shows an increase in services to a number of western Sydney stations and to those on the Epping to Chatswood line. But there are also clear losers, such as Kogarah on the Illawarra line where peak-hour train services will be halved.
Winners and losers of Sydney's new train timetable

The timetable will be the first big change to public transport services under the O'Farrell government and the most significant for Sydney's rail system since 2005.
Advertisement

New bus and ferry timetables will also be introduced in October but these remain secret.

An 800-page version of the train timetable, dated last month, reveals a number of the big changes. These include:
Confident: NSW Transport Minister, Gladys Berejiklian believes the new timetable will be received positively.

Confident: NSW Transport Minister, Gladys Berejiklian believes the new timetable will be received positively. Photo: Janie Barrett

More trains on the Eastern Suburbs and Illawarra line;

More on the Epping to Chatswood line;

Fewer trains stopping at upper north shore stations such as Lindfield and Killara.

More on the Bankstown line, particularly at Marrickville; slightly more Blue Mountains and Illawarra trains;

A revival of half-hourly services on the

Cumberland line between Campbelltown and Blacktown;

More regular stopping patterns at many stations.

Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian said the version of the timetable obtained by Fairfax Media was still in draft stage.

"I expect more changes over coming months and am certain the new timetable will be received in an overwhelmingly positive light once it is finalised,'' she said.

A Transport for NSW spokesman said there would be at least 700 extra weekly services.

To assess the timetable, which was not provided by the government, Fairfax Media compared peak-period stopping patterns at selected stations with those in the present timetable.

The comparison reveals that come October, trains will be much more consistently timed, arriving at many stations at the same time each hour.

In the inner west commuters will generally be better off. Trains heading to the city on the inner-west line will start at Homebush, using a ''turnback'' facility built five years ago and not used before.

This means trains arriving at Summer Hill will have fewer passengers on board as they will not have travelled from Lidcombe or Liverpool.

At Newtown, the busiest station on the inner-west line, there will be a slight increase in afternoon services but a small drop in early-morning services.

A preliminary analysis of the weekend timetable shows no significant change in frequencies.

On the Eastern Suburbs and Illawarra line, there will be two more trains an hour leaving Bondi Junction for the city during the weekday peak. It includes an extra one an hour leaving Cronulla for the city.

But there are big changes to the frequency of services to some stops on the Illawarra line. For instance, there are dramatically fewer trains stopping at Kogarah, used by students at local schools, businesses and St George Hospital.

This will make it impossible to get a direct service from the Cronulla or Waterfall line to or from Kogarah. A departmental spokesman acknowledged this was the intent.

''Hurstville will be used as an interchange point for customers travelling from south of Hurstville who want to go to any station from Allawah to Arncliffe.''

Other smaller stations on the line will have a rise in services. At Arncliffe there will be at least an extra two trains an hour in the morning, and two an hour in the afternoon peak.

The timetable revives more services on the Cumberland line, which runs north-south in western Sydney.

The service between Campbelltown, Liverpool, Parramatta and Blacktown now has only two trains in the morning and three in the afternoon. But the frequency will be bumped up to every half an hour.

There are fewer trains to upper north shore stations such as Lindfield and Killara because more services will run on the Epping to Chatswood line.

Commuters going to Macquarie Park or Macquarie University from Town Hall are now limited to trains every 15 minutes.

Under the draft, trains will run about every eight minutes between 8am and 9am.

But this benefit will be reversed when the north-west rail link is built. Trains will then be unable to run from Town Hall to Macquarie Park or Macquarie University because the Epping to Chatswood line will be handed to a new private operator.

The opposition and public transport advocates have called on Ms Berejiklian to release the draft for consultation soon.

Draft timetables have been typically released more than half a year before they are implemented.

''The big issue is why they don't want anyone to see it,'' said Jim Donovan from Action for Public Transport.

SMH
  jng Station Staff

In response to the article on the smh this morning:

I am a strong proponent of trying to achieve a more equitable system of public transport, and as a user of the north shore line, I have been blessed with a relatively good service.  However, since 2000 and especially after the opening of the chatswood to epping line, the upper north shore line, in particular between Chatswood and Gordon have had dramatic service cuts.

I question the logic of further cuts in services, as represented by AM services for Lindfield falling from 22 to 16, and PM services falling from 28 to 22 to boost macquarie park services given these often run at lower capacity than preceding and following NS line services, even at the present lower frequencies. (http://www.cityrail.info/about/our_performance/service_capacity.pdf)

I am also unsure as to which the "peak" direction of a station such as macquarie park given it is citybound for passengers coming from epping, but away from the city for most passengers travelling to the macquarie business district.  Could anyone clarify?

Nevertheless, does anyone have experiences on the macquarie park section of the northern line which suggest that extra citybound services should be run in the AM peak at the expense of upper north shore line services, and vice versa during the PM peak? (personally imho, north shore line services run fuller than macquarie park services at present)

Draft Timetable Obtained by Fairfax - http://images.smh.com.au/file/2013/05/16/4277920/timetable.pdf?rand=1368718577114
  Rails Chief Commissioner

For some reason that PDF crashes my browser so this may be a bit redundant but based on the article I must say I did not expect them to move the 4 tph Gordon starters to the ECRL. At least the West gets A sets!

However I do have first hand knowledge of these lines as I frequently travel between Central and St Leonards, Macquarie Park and Gordon. The North Shore line trains are much more loaded than the Northern line trains, peak or off-peak. From what I can tell the majority of traffic on the Northern line seems to be for the ECRL stations rather than the upper Northern line suburban stations. Whereas the patronage for the North Shore line seems to be geared towards the stations between Chatswood and Gordon. To me this has dramatically increased with the substantial increase in new units around the Lindfield to Gordon rail stations. No such changes have happened on the upper Northern line and are not planned to. Density will increase along the ECRL though.

The upper North Shore suburbs must feel pretty ripped, here take an extra 30,000 residents because you have a rail line but we are going to slash its services, especially when its the areas only transport system. Meanwhile the main road through the suburbs (Pacific highway) is clogged by ever expanding traffic (esp large truck movements) from everywhere else. This will only get worse for these suburbs with the completion of the M2-F3 toll road. Time to sell up if you live in Ku-Ring-gai! Or at least vote out BOF.

Thus, I foresee some very full trains on the North Shore line and a lot of empty space on these new Northern line trains if they only run as far as Hornsby. However can anyone see in that PDF if the new services are not only to assist Macquarie Park but to fulfil one of the Liberals election commitments, new trains to service the Central Coast? I am sure the Coast via Shore services still exist.
  stupid_girl Assistant Commissioner

During weekday off-peak, North Shore Line services are interlined with Epping services while Macquarie Park services are interlined with Western Line services. A direct consequence is more A-sets via Gordon and more old trains via Macquarie Park.Rolling Eyes

During weekend, the timetable has not changed much. Hornsby-Chatswood shuttles are still timetabled to just miss a North Shore Line service to the city. This is just unacceptable for a timetable developed from scratch!!!Evil or Very Mad
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
SMH has a report on a leaked draft of the timetable:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/winners-and-losers-all-change-in-rail-revamp-20130516-2jpeu.html
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Seems largely a return to the pre-2005 timetable for the Western line, at least on weekdays, but probably with post-2005 speeds.  I guess a step forward from the current timetable.
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
Interesting stopping pattern on some citybound North Shore services (EX Berowra), all to Waitara,Turramurra,Gordon all to Central. Shocked
  Spii Beginner

I notice (from the 832 page document) that no trains to/from Campbelltown during the peak hours utilise the express tracks between Kingsgrove and Revesby. Am I wrong? Please correct me someone!
8603
Morning timetable looks like 4tph (between 06.45 and 08.00) running express Revesby-Sydenham on the new tracks, and two trains in that period taking what looks to be an express Holsworthy-Wolli Creek (??) pattern, crossing back over at Turrella [also seen interpeak].

Evening peak in the reverse direction only sees the former take the main tracks - the latter takes the locals as it takes extra stops at Riverwood and Padstow before running to Holsworthy.
  8603 Locomotive Driver

Location: Canberra
Morning timetable looks like 4tph (between 06.45 and 08.00) running express Revesby-Sydenham on the new tracks, and two trains in that period taking what looks to be an express Holsworthy-Wolli Creek pattern, crossing back over at Turrella [also seen interpeak].

Evening peak in the reverse direction only sees the former take the main tracks - the latter takes the locals as it takes extra stops at Riverwood and Padstow before running to Holsworthy.
Spii
Thanks Spii.
  clrks Locomotive Fireman

Regular K sets on Bankstown Line???!!!

No more T sets at all on the Bankstown and Airport & East Hills Lines?
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I'm going to read the PDF documents now, but I must admit I'm pretty appalled by the prospect of less trains to Kogarah.

EDIT: I've looked at the PM peak Illawarra, and it's not all roses and Nutella.

Between Redfern and Hurstville, there are now only two patterns: express, or local. All trains will call at Wolli Creek; express trains will call at Redfern, Wolli Creek and Hurstville only.

Sydenham, Rockdale and Kogarah have been stripped outright from all expresses. These stations will now be served just by the Hurstville stopping service, running every ten minutes. They will see their Illawarra services slashed in half (or less!), down to just six slow trains an hour.

From trains departing Bondi Junction between 1700 and 1800 Kogarah currently sees 14tph in PM peak; Rockdale and Sydenham both get 12tph. Again, these have now all been slashed to just 6tph.

On the not-so-negative side, local stops between Redfern and Hurstville see a 50% increase in service, and travel times from the City to locations past Hurstville are marginally better.

I believe that this is an "enhancement", not an improvement.
  thefatcontroller Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, Australia
Interesting that they've slashed services on the upper north shore... Especially since BOF is the local member for Ku-ring-gai
  Rails Chief Commissioner

During weekday off-peak, North Shore Line services are interlined with Epping services while Macquarie Park services are interlined with Western Line services. A direct consequence is more A-sets via Gordon and more old trains via Macquarie Park.Rolling Eyes

During weekend, the timetable has not changed much. Hornsby-Chatswood shuttles are still timetabled to just miss a North Shore Line service to the city. This is just unacceptable for a timetable developed from scratch!!!Evil or Very Mad
stupid_girl
Does that not mean that they would run the A sets via Macquarie Park to the Western line and the older sets from North Strathfield to the upper North Shore via Gordon?

Agreed, that shuttle interchange issue is pretty ordinary, hopefully it can be fixed before the new time table rolls out.
  Rails Chief Commissioner

I'm going to read the PDF documents now, but I must admit I'm pretty appalled by the prospect of less trains to Kogarah.

EDIT: I've looked at the PM peak Illawarra, and it's not all roses and Nutella.

Between Redfern and Hurstville, there are now only two patterns: express, or local. All trains will call at Wolli Creek; express trains will call at Redfern, Wolli Creek and Hurstville only.

Sydenham, Rockdale and Kogarah have been stripped outright from all expresses. These stations will now be served just by the Hurstville stopping service, running every ten minutes. They will see their Illawarra services slashed in half (or less!), down to just six slow trains an hour.

From trains departing Bondi Junction between 1700 and 1800 Kogarah currently sees 14tph in PM peak; Rockdale and Sydenham both get 12tph. Again, these have now all been slashed to just 6tph.

On the not-so-negative side, local stops between Redfern and Hurstville see a 50% increase in service, and travel times from the City to locations past Hurstville are marginally better.

I believe that this is an "enhancement", not an improvement.
Watson374

So basically it will be the same as they want to do with the "Metro" Hurstville line, where the double deckers all run one fast pattern and the Single Deck runs the local pattern with 10 tph.
  bjwh86 Chief Train Controller

Noticed while reading through it that the Western Line between Blacktown and Penrith gets a 15 minute daytime frequency.
There will be the introduction of A sets to this line also with an increase in the use of OSCARS to Penrith/Emu Plains.

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