Inland Rail vs Cross River Rail: Truss

 
  appleby Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Tweed - In Canberra.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/inland-rail-likely-to-trump-cross-river-under-abbott-20130519-2just.html

A $4.7 billion plan for an inland freight rail line from Melbourne to Brisbane via Parkes and Toowoomba will push aside Brisbane’s Cross River Rail project, Shadow Infrastructure Minister Warren Truss said.


An interesting development.

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  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/inland-rail-likely-to-trump-cross-river-under-abbott-20130519-2just.html



An interesting development.
appleby

Good research here... Rolling Eyes

To quote... "However this project schedule estimates the cost is $12.7 billion."

They are looking at Melbourne - Brisbane Inland Rail Alignment Study - that study cost $12,744,626
(i.e.  that STUDY now COMPLETED was $12.7 MILLION)
http://www.nationbuildingprogram.gov.au/projects/ProjectDetails.aspx?Project_id=040791-10SA-NP

Wouldn't describe this as a development - rather Truss has to keep the Nats constituency excited Wink
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
The Coalition ignoring Infrastructure Australia yet again.

What is it with these clowns?
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!
Brought the infrastructure project fred back to life 'just in case'

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11349336-s125.htm
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
The Coalition ignoring Infrastructure Australia yet again.

What is it with these clowns?
bingley hall
LNP have indicated that as the federal govt they will focus on federal transport issues such as interstate rail and road. Nothing wrong with that and would eliminate this ongoing infight and BS that is going on right now over the CRR and previously in Syd for the NWRL.

IA just approved the project for fed funding for which the offered ~$750m of the $6B cost. Yep its agreat project, great for Brisbane and will be of great value for decades to come. But its so F'in expensive its off the scale. The whole state funding is a complete mess, they don't have the income to fund their portfolio's, hand the fed portfolio's over to the Feds, ie Health and eductaion as a starter.

Leave suburban rail transport with its rightfull owner, the state and perhaps then they can find the cash to fund it and certainly be held 100% accountable for it.

Right now we have Swan saying, here's $750m knowing he will never had to spend the cash, Newman and previously Anna saying he needs significant fed funding and Abbott saying its not my problem. Anna started this by putting this project up, but never from day 1 had the cash to even pay the first $1B.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!
LNP have indicated that as the federal govt they will focus on federal transport issues such as interstate rail and road. Nothing wrong with that and would eliminate this ongoing infight and BS that is going on right now over the CRR and previously in Syd for the NWRL.

IA just approved the project for fed funding for which the offered ~$750m of the $6B cost. Yep its agreat project, great for Brisbane and will be of great value for decades to come. But its so F'in expensive its off the scale. The whole state funding is a complete mess, they don't have the income to fund their portfolio's, hand the fed portfolio's over to the Feds, ie Health and eductaion as a starter.

Leave suburban rail transport with its rightfull owner, the state and perhaps then they can find the cash to fund it and certainly be held 100% accountable for it.

Right now we have Swan saying, here's $750m knowing he will never had to spend the cash, Newman and previously Anna saying he needs significant fed funding and Abbott saying its not my problem. Anna started this by putting this project up, but never from day 1 had the cash to even pay the first $1B.
RTT_Rules

So what you're saying is that it's all too hard for federal and state governments to work out suburban rail projects.

Yet the state and federal governments can somehow co-ordinate a raft of things involving federal/state shared funding. Not everything goes smoothly either.

It's just a cop out. (Obviously more votes in mega billion $$$ motorways Rolling Eyes )
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
So what you're saying is that it's all too hard for federal and state governments to work out suburban rail projects.

Yet the state and federal governments can somehow co-ordinate a raft of things involving federal/state shared funding. Not everything goes smoothly either.

It's just a cop out. (Obviously more votes in mega billion $$$ motorways Rolling Eyes )
cootanee
I'm not saying anything, look at whats happening they cannot organise a chook raffle together. As for funding, look at the shiit fight over the CRR on "he said she said" on who agreed to what.

Normal industry practice is these days assign ONE person or group to plan, organise etc any event. To many cooks spoil the broth!

Simple solution, one department, one govt, one boss. Currnetly who do you vote for if you are pissed off over the CRR, Newman, Swan or Abbott?

NEwman says he's cash strappped, not surprising Anna before he said the same. Anna was no closer to building it than Newman, she just said she was but the start date was still 2015. Easier said than done. Newman blames Swan for not giving him enough money, but Newman never said he'd build it before 2019 anyway. So what has Newman actually refused? The CRR has not, not (double negative intended) gone ahead as per his previous statement on timing 6mths ago.

Anna never had a funding plan in place apart from $5B from feds, which was never approved.

Swan, never said he wouldn't fund it, but he gave some money which apparently the Qld govt agreed to but now say they didn't. Who's lying?

Abbott, his position is simple, Its Suburban rail its a state issue. Out of this whole mess this is probably the most acurate. It is. Feds funds interstate issues. Feds have funded road and rail easily because its theirs, unlikely Suburban rail. The previous fed funding of suburban rail on a large scale has just opened up a can of worms of where does it stop? However Abbott's comments conflict with Newman's view. So maybe Newman refusing is his way to align with Abbott?
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!
That's politics and I suspect you are looking to justify Abbotts stand. It's not as if there hasn't been bun fights and the blame game over other projects - again it's mostly politics rather than state/federal responsibilities. Take Sydney's West Connect - a controversial suburban road project.

"Normal industry practice is these days assign ONE person or group to plan, organise etc any event. To many cooks spoil the broth!"

That's right - the feds don't actually build the roads, freight rail lines, hospitals, schools. The states (or others such as ARTC) are responsible for delivery. Hunter Valley Expressway, Liverpool Hospital, Northern Sydney Freight Corridor (Cityrail track) are all delivered by the NSW Government with significant federal funding.

Removing congestion is a national issue and rail has a role in that. The federal funding bias will simply lock in road building as the easier option. Why would a state guvmnt put $5 billion into a rail link when they could build $10/20/30b of co-funded road projects.

We have seen how decades of federal road funding bias has effectively distorted the interstate freight transport market. Imagine if they had a National Rail Highways policy back in the 70's.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
That's politics and I suspect you are looking to justify Abbotts stand. It's not as if there hasn't been bun fights and the blame game over other projects - again it's mostly politics rather than state/federal responsibilities. Take Sydney's West Connect - a controversial suburban road project.

"Normal industry practice is these days assign ONE person or group to plan, organise etc any event. To many cooks spoil the broth!"

That's right - the feds don't actually build the roads, freight rail lines, hospitals, schools. The states (or others such as ARTC) are responsible for delivery. Hunter Valley Expressway, Liverpool Hospital, Northern Sydney Freight Corridor (Cityrail track) are all delivered by the NSW Government with significant federal funding.

Removing congestion is a national issue and rail has a role in that. The federal funding bias will simply lock in road building as the easier option. Why would a state guvmnt put $5 billion into a rail link when they could build $10/20/30b of co-funded road projects.

We have seen how decades of federal road funding bias has effectively distorted the interstate freight transport market. Imagine if they had a National Rail Highways policy back in the 70's.
cootanee
I'm not just justifing Abbott's posiiton, I agreed with it before he stated it and agree with it now, but his comments are not directly linked to suburban rail and neither am I.

Roads tend to get co-funding more because you cannot seperate local and interstate traffic from a hwy such as the Gateway Motorway. Suburban rail is simple. You have Joe blogs going from suburbia to CBD, this is truely a state issue. Just like the arterial road along side it and in most cases this is what has happened with at times the feds throwing in a few bucks, which is fine. Local traffic congestion is a it state issue, not feds, pure and simple.

I think most people would agree that if the state had asked the feds for maybe 20-33% of the cost that may have been a reasonable approach, as has happened on other suburba rail projects. But in this case the Qld govt put together a project that cost ~$6B and then said loook how good it is because it is (geniouely is), but only ever planned to spend $1B. Then both sides of the Qld govt blame the Feds for it not happening?

We all blamed Newman for not building it when IA said it was shovel ready, but at the time not $1 from the Feds has been allocated, yet "Newman only needed to find $1B as the Feds would pay the rest". Now the Feds have offerd
  phil_48 Chief Train Controller

Location: Wynnum North
If link was for western suburbs of Sydney, it would be built there by now.  Way more marginal seats in that area than Brisbane..

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