North Terrace Tram Upgrade

 
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The 300m single track section on North terrace will be duplicated over the coming June long weekend.

Included in this will be an additional crossover near the Adelaide Railway Station stop.

Trams will continue to run but only to Rundle Mall.

http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/public_transport_projects/north_terrace_tramline_project

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  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Good to see this finally happening, it should have been done when the extension to Hindmarsh was built and the single track section became a bottleneck rather than an efficient way of handling traffic using what was the terminus at the time.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Not before time either, as stated it should have been done when the new extension was done to the Entertainment Centre. It can be a real bottleneck at times on that section.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

That is excellent.

I long to be able to stand in King William St and always be able to see a tram just like you can in St Kilda Road Melbourne.

How long before they purchase the remaining spare Alstom trams from Madrid?

Next question.
How long before the grand junction is rebuilt at North Tce. King William St. intersection.
Watch out St Kilda museum, DPTI may want their signal cabin back!
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Yes more of the Alstom trams would not go astray, as they are better by miles than a Flexity tram is. Every flexity I seem to get of late is packed solid as there is very little standing room in them, the ex Spanish ones though have plenty of standing room in them.
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
Hooray, I'm glad it's finally being duplicated. Surprised they didn't do it earlier.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Yes more of the Alstom trams would not go astray, as they are better by miles than a Flexity tram is. Every flexity I seem to get of late is packed solid as there is very little standing room in them, the ex Spanish ones though have plenty of standing room in them.
David Peters

I've only been on an Alstom tram once and it was absolutely packed no room whatsoever I was almost getting shoved into one of the poles when someone needed to get out when I was riding on it through the city
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I've only been on an Alstom tram once and it was absolutely packed no room whatsoever I was almost getting shoved into one of the poles when someone needed to get out when I was riding on it through the city
Milkomeda
Be thankful it wasn't one of the Bombardier trams. You would have been left on the platform.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
I've only been on an Alstom tram once and it was absolutely packed no room whatsoever I was almost getting shoved into one of the poles when someone needed to get out when I was riding on it through the city
Milkomeda
Some worldly advice. Never visit London.
  AFULE Chief Train Controller

Location: South Australia
The original plan under the Morphett Street bridge was always for duplicated track, but the non rail people in OMPI/DPTI changed it because of the intersection and the car park entrance to the Convention Centre, on North Terrace, certain people:) opposed it, but they were run over by the NON Rail people who worked in those areas.  It was a costly embarrassing blunder.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

The original plan under the Morphett Street bridge was always for duplicated track, but the non rail people in OMPI/DPTI changed it because of the intersection and the car park entrance to the Convention Centre, on North Terrace, certain people:) opposed it, but they were run over by the NON Rail people who worked in those areas.  It was a costly embarrassing blunder.
AFULE

A head or two should roll.Sad
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

A head or two should roll.Sad
steam4ian
The delays and cockups in the electrification and new train projects would be better causes for public servants to go than a few metres of tram track which was at least fit for purpose at the time of being built. After such a good run of projects running on time over the last few years, standards are slipping at DPTI with this one missing more deadlines than most Light City Buses services, the Convention Centre blowing its budget and getting downsized and Adelaide Oval also running behind schedule.

Where are those EMUs which were supposed to be delivered for testing and driver training during April? You know, the ones that were originally supposed to arrive during 2012 so they could start running electric services this September. Is it just that somebody decided to save a few dollars and not get an upgrade to Express Post when they ordered them, or is there substance to the question Rod Hook fobbed off about them being oversized?
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
The delays and cockups in the electrification and new train projects would be better causes for public servants to go than a few metres of tram track which was at least fit for purpose at the time of being built. After such a good run of projects running on time over the last few years, standards are slipping at DPTI with this one missing more deadlines than most Light City Buses services, the Convention Centre blowing its budget and getting downsized and Adelaide Oval also running behind schedule.

Where are those EMUs which were supposed to be delivered for testing and driver training during April? You know, the ones that were originally supposed to arrive during 2012 so they could start running electric services this September. Is it just that somebody decided to save a few dollars and not get an upgrade to Express Post when they ordered them, or is there substance to the question Rod Hook fobbed off about them being oversized?
"justapassenger"


Simple question?
Do you whinge about everything in your life as you do on here about every topic?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Simple question?
Do you whinge about everything in your life as you do on here about every topic?
Black Hoppers
I don't always agree with JAP, but in this case I think he has a bit of a point, once again I note you are from Western NSW, which suggests to me that you couldn't have the best idea of what's happening about Adelaide.

My questions, which have still never been adequately answered, about the rail works in Adelaide include these: Was a 'rail' or 'non rail' person ultimately responsible for checking the clearances of electrical infrastructure surrounding Nairne Junction? In either case, could this person have passed a year 3 NAPLAN test? I have some doubts surrounding their ability to both read and understand what the spec said, and/or their ability to read, understand, measure and follow critical dimensions. Is this person still at DPTI? If yes, perhaps maybe see Ian's comment, if no and they've gone to some project in Dubai, have they been advised that a similar mistake over there may well involve a more literal interpretation of Ian's comment?

As for the general topic of the tram trackage gaining another 300m I find the idea just a whisker more interesting than Tonsley gaining 600m of trackage... Either only truly of news value on a no (not even slow) news day.
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
I don't always agree with JAP, but in this case I think he has a bit of a point, once again I note you are from Western NSW, which suggests to me that you couldn't have the best idea of what's happening about Adelaide.

My questions, which have still never been adequately answered, about the rail works in Adelaide include these Was a 'rail' or 'non rail' person ultimately responsible for checking the clearances of electrical infrastructure surrounding Nairne Junction? In either case, could this person have passed a year 3 NAPLAN test? I have some doubts surrounding their ability to both read and understand what the spec said, and/or their ability to read, understand, measure and follow critical dimensions. Is this person still at DPTI? If yes, perhaps maybe see Ian's comment, if no and they've gone to some project in Dubai, have they been advised that a similar mistake over there may well involve a more literal interpretation of Ian's comment?

As for the general topic of the tram trackage gaining another 300m I find the idea just a whisker more interesting than Tonsley gaining 600m of trackage... Either only truly of news value on a no (not even slow) news day.
"Aaron"


Considering that my nearest Capital City is indeed Adelaide and that i do indeed take the time to read all the south Australian sections threads it would amaze you just what i do know, i also read NSW and VIC threads and have a very good idea of how things work in all 3 systems.

As a railway worker i like following industry developments across all forms of the rail spectrum including Infrastructure,Wagons and even Locomotives and it gets right up my nose when i see certain posters just whinging for the sake of putting their name on a non needed post just for the sake of posting.

Adelaide is one of the few systems that at the moment is going foward from its once run down state to a virtualy brand new Tram and Rail system and this should be appluaded big time not whinged about for the petty sake of a whinge.

Forgive any spelling errors as my Meds are kicking in please.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Interesting it was Rex, a railworker (former?), who suggested that single the track section was a "deliberate design mistake".

Is it that point which makes the 300 metres of track slightly more intersting than 600 metres on the Tonsley line?

Is there a problem with mast and gantry set outs at ARS?

Are the EMU's too big?

If the answer to the last two questions is No! then let us put them to bed.

Ian
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Simple question?
Do you whinge about everything in your life as you do on here about every topic?
Do you think it is not a good idea for your government to be held accountable for the manner in which they spend your money? A lack of public scrutiny like you suggest is exactly what leads to people like Ian MacDonald getting away with mining licenses for mates.

I do welcome the progress being made with our infrastructure in Adelaide, but this is not incompatible with also wanting to make sure it is subject to some basic level of public scrutiny in light of this being a representative democracy where the government works for us, and not North Korea. When projects overrun key milestone dates or costs blow out, it's entirely reasonable for taxpayers to assume that the government would issue updates to explain why it's not happening on schedule/budget.

If the state government had the default position of being proactive in their transparency and didn't wait until after promised milestone dates had passed before explaining delays (and actually explained them instead of deploying squadrons of red herrings) then people wouldn't need to join the dots themselves and wonder what else hasn't been done right.

A classic example from recent times here (which only made the media once, so you might have missed it) which I went past every 2-3 days was the Seacombe Road bridge replacement. The scheduled reopening date in November passed with no bridge there, then a couple of weeks later they placed stickers on the signs with new dates, and then about five weeks after that in mid-January it was finally explained. If it had been announced straight away that there would be delays due to the supplier for the main girders having gone into receivership and alternative supply arrangements being in progress, people would have that there was a delay in getting the girders from a different company because of the lead time for production of those items. People would have accepted that fact if it received at least some initial communication during October, but in the absence of information people quite rightly had cause to assume epic levels of mismanagement and be suspicious over the motivation for covering up such a basic update.

As for this story being newsworthy, it will be in one instance only - informing people of traffic delays during the week before the works actually happen.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Do you think it is not a good idea for your government to be held accountable for the manner in which they spend your money? A lack of public scrutiny like you suggest is exactly what leads to people like Ian MacDonald getting away with mining licenses for mates.
justapassenger
And we do have a government that famously caned the idea of an ICAC, something that we still don't properly have. Luckily for the NSW government it was an SA geologist (from that most prestigious university) that blew the whistle on the mine and uncovered the NSW mess. Right at the moment we don't have similar systems here, so we have to ask the questions ourselves.
  AFULE Chief Train Controller

Location: South Australia
The problem in Adelaide is getting the media to pick up on a story, there has been numerous stuff ups in the rail upgrade program and neither the Media or Opposition have the ability to pick them up and if they do they don't now how to burrow down and get the real facts.
The sign at the new Dry Creek Railcar Depot said it cost $157m, I think that you will find it is closer to $197m.

The Port Road viaduct was stuff up.

Hallett Cove Beach station was just look at what the had to do with the signals so the drivers could see them.

Oaklands has issues because they didn't take electrification into consideration when they constructed it.

The Port River new rail bridge was a stuff up.

In a nut shell it is poor standard of journalist and opposition pollies.

These aren't whinging matters, they are all facts.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
The Port Road viaduct was stuff up.

Hallett Cove Beach station was just look at what the had to do with the signals so the drivers could see them.

Oaklands has issues because they didn't take electrification into consideration when they constructed it.

The Port River new rail bridge was a stuff up.

In a nut shell it is poor standard of journalist and opposition pollies.

These aren't whinging matters, they are all facts.
AFULE
You've made these comments. Now explain yourself.
  AFULE Chief Train Controller

Location: South Australia
You've made these comments. Now explain yourself.
Tonsley213
Tonsley 213, I will try and explain it a bit more--

Original Port River via Duct (Port Adelaide station) up-grade included dual gauge across it, when project people got hold of it and budget started to blow out, a decision was made to only upgrade in BG so as to save cost, the line pushed was that standard gauge would never eventuate. The cost of SG now is significant, that is why the tram keeps coming up via Port Adelaide streets so as to hide this conversion cost.

Hallett Cove Station was designed with out taking in to consideration the signal sighting requirement by drivers on UP movements, at one stage they were going to impose a speed restriction for all UP train movements to over come it, but eventually after a lot of input agreed to change the signalling hieght and remove the cross-over to fix the problem. (there was no driver input)

Oakland Park Station has roof clearance issues and is to short.

Port River bridge and the up grade down to Outer Harbor cost were under estimated by tens of millions and the Outer harbor area is a congested mess, that is why they have to split the mineral trains to allow them to get in to the port.

Journalist & Oppositions pollies don't seem to be able to flush out a story like they do interstate in regards to matters like they and run with it to put governments under pressure.

The old TSA and now OMPI/DPTI have they ability to cover up these messes whether it be under the current Labor or past Liberal Governments, you only have to look at the annual Estimates Committees question in Parliament to see how inept the Opposition is.

Regards
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

The new St Clair station is being designed without provision for electrification.

The issues were too difficult although not impossible so DPTI's solution was to give instructions to ignore them.
  AFULE Chief Train Controller

Location: South Australia
The new St Clair station is being designed without provision for electrification.

The issues were too difficult although not impossible so DPTI's solution was to give instructions to ignore them.
steam4ian

Typical cost saving exercise.

The rumor is that they don't want electric trains on the O/H line, only trams, if that was to occur would the lower voltage required for trams remove the cost of upgrading for electrification?
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Typical cost saving exercise.

The rumor is that they don't want electric trains on the O/H line, only trams, if that was to occur would the lower voltage required for trams remove the cost of upgrading for electrification?
AFULE

Would this be because of the extension to Semaphore and because the Noarlunga and Gawler Lines are more populated than the Outer Harbour Line?
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The rumor is that they don't want electric trains on the O/H line, only trams, if that was to occur would the lower voltage required for trams remove the cost of upgrading for electrification?
AFULE

To my mind this is the best option for the Outer Harbor line: trams only and the heavy rail retired.

Considering the Glenelg line gets more patronage than the Outer Harbor line, or so I believe, then the argument that only heavy rail will cut it simply doesn't hold water.

The tram option would bring the Outer Harbor line into the CBD rather than dropping people at the edge.

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