Austrains site updated

 
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.

At what point is an IA going to be announced, and after that are there any other short-underframe wagons?
"SteamtoStay"


The IA was announced & released by Austrains about 2 years ago at the Caulfield exhibition. Here's a pic of it from the Austrains site.

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  a6et Minister for Railways




It was said a while back that most of the RTR producers get together occasionally and tell each other their planned projects to avoid conflicts (at least in theory). Assuming this still happens, are companies like SEM represented at these meetings?

"SteamtoStay"


That's urban myth, it does not happen.

"TheBlacksmith"


I believe that it has its roots when there were 3 of the NSW companies that used the same factory in China, which was confronted with the situation that there were identical models wanted to be produced by each of them or more than one in certain models.  That factory then made a commitment to not produce the same model for any of the other two, which eventuated with each being basically allocated models to be done in their brand.

That now has changed as one of them has broken ranks & gone to another factory, a reason we are seeing a flood of certain models that were on the one that has broken ranks list.

The way things are going now, that looks akin to a buzzards party, it reminds me a lot of what one primary person said to me a few years back as this duplication started to bite.  He said "I believe the hobby is about to implode", & while it has taken a few years, I think that its well on the way to that happening.

  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork





It was said a while back that most of the RTR producers get together occasionally and tell each other their planned projects to avoid conflicts (at least in theory). Assuming this still happens, are companies like SEM represented at these meetings?

"SteamtoStay"


That's urban myth, it does not happen.

"TheBlacksmith"


I believe that it has its roots when there were 3 of the NSW companies that used the same factory in China, which was confronted with the situation that there were identical models wanted to be produced by each of them or more than one in certain models. That factory then made a commitment to not produce the same model for any of the other two, which eventuated with each being basically allocated models to be done in their brand.

That now has changed as one of them has broken ranks & gone to another factory, a reason we are seeing a flood of certain models that were on the one that has broken ranks list.

The way things are going now, that looks akin to a buzzards party, it reminds me a lot of what one primary person said to me a few years back as this duplication started to bite. He said "I believe the hobby is about to implode", & while it has taken a few years, I think that its well on the way to that happening.

"a6et"


Present tense.....

  a6et Minister for Railways








It was said a while back that most of the RTR producers get together occasionally and tell each other their planned projects to avoid conflicts (at least in theory). Assuming this still happens, are companies like SEM represented at these meetings?

"SteamtoStay"


That's urban myth, it does not happen.

"TheBlacksmith"


I believe that it has its roots when there were 3 of the NSW companies that used the same factory in China, which was confronted with the situation that there were identical models wanted to be produced by each of them or more than one in certain models. That factory then made a commitment to not produce the same model for any of the other two, which eventuated with each being basically allocated models to be done in their brand.

That now has changed as one of them has broken ranks & gone to another factory, a reason we are seeing a flood of certain models that were on the one that has broken ranks list.

The way things are going now, that looks akin to a buzzards party, it reminds me a lot of what one primary person said to me a few years back as this duplication started to bite. He said "I believe the hobby is about to implode", & while it has taken a few years, I think that its well on the way to that happening.

"a6et"


Present tense.....

"TheBlacksmith"


More than likely what we are seeing is only the beginning, & I actually I have been looking at 2014 as when the finality of it all may take place.  Very much a reason why my money is not going out on any phantom or ghost projects now, only have money on one model still to come.

  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW

I actually have an Austrains IA weathered and with a replacement floor (the Austrains one had a mock wooden floor the original a steel floor) sitting on the top of my computer they have been out and sold out for two or three years.

If you think you have missed out SEM do an excellent kit.

Iain

  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
IIRC, doesn't the SEM model have a couple of errors when compared to the real I/IA wagons and these have been replicated on the Austrains model? (eg: the towing hitch location)
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates



At what point is an IA going to be announced, and after that are there any other short-underframe wagons?
"SteamtoStay"


The IA was announced & released by Austrains about 2 years ago at the Caulfield exhibition. Here's a pic of it from the Austrains site.

"Poath Junction"

I meant the Tommy Bent type.

  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...



And the current edition of AMRM news section mentions that the M wagons will be closely followed by the P Powder Van, HD and short T van. So there are 3 more SEM kits that were sent to the chinese by the 'research team'.


Even so, why do the P van? It only ran in Victoria and there were only 50 of them. Even SEM has only managed to sell a small number of them. Dumb choice.

"TheBlacksmith"


That's a interesting comment, how do you know that?

Wolfpac

  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork





And the current edition of AMRM news section mentions that the M wagons will be closely followed by the P Powder Van, HD and short T van. So there are 3 more SEM kits that were sent to the chinese by the 'research team'.


Even so, why do the P van? It only ran in Victoria and there were only 50 of them. Even SEM has only managed to sell a small number of them. Dumb choice.

"TheBlacksmith"


That's a interesting comment, how do you know that?

Wolfpac

"wolfpac"


It could be to do with a small detail that was copied from an SEM kit onto one of their models, and also other things that I know of.

Take a look at the new M wagons on the Austrains site, the crappy woodgrain has even been put onto the wagon headstocks. They were made of steel.

The SEM web site will be updated later today with photos of the re-tooled M wagon kit.

  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW

Now you mention it the woods grain effect does seem a bit overpowering on the photos of the models.

Iain

  a6et Minister for Railways




It could be to do with a small detail that was copied from an SEM kit onto one of their models, and also other things that I know of.

Take a look at the new M wagons on the Austrains site, the smeggy woodgrain has even been put onto the wagon headstocks. They were made of steel.

The SEM web site will be updated later today with photos of the re-tooled M wagon kit.

"TheBlacksmith"


Ah Hah! time for the tide to turn away from the minors in NSW on some models Shocked
Really though for some unknown reason the stock wagons that have been produced by this factory, which is used by Austrains & Eureka, have very much gone to an extreme in the way the wood grains have been so overdone on them.  Interestingly the TOR BCW, was criticised in part as to lack of any woodgrain, yet when they were built the timbers used were fine milled & very much as the model depicted, & looked like it most of their working lifes, even those in storage by the seaside show little if any sign of woodgrain.

Seems we have moved from the area of no grain to full grain, I guess the nutritionists will love that though.

  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork

It is a completely silly idea to even try and represent woodgrain, as in HO scale the is no chance you could even see it. Especially when it would have received several coats of paint over the years.

And as for wood-grained steel..... where is the faceplant emoticon?

  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates

Take a look at the new M wagons on the Austrains site, the smeggy woodgrain has even been put onto the wagon headstocks. They were made of steel.
"TheBlacksmith"

Thanks for that.

We should now have an easy way to tell apart the SDS vs Austrains wagons. It's interesting to note that the former will work out to around $48/wagon while the latter will be around $35/wagon.

  a6et Minister for Railways




It is a completely silly idea to even try and represent woodgrain, as in HO scale the is no chance you could even see it. Especially when it would have received several coats of paint over the years.

And as for wood-grained steel..... where is the faceplant emoticon?

"TheBlacksmith"


I agree, yet there has been calls for it in the past, but its either too little & therefore unseen or too much & becomes an eyesore, who is going to try & sand down a box full of models?

The problem is, that like most modellers, I am not that worried about detail that cannot be seen at arms length which would include many things, yet many others demand it because it existed on the real thing. If it was fine enough & in a scale fidelity, much of it would be hidden by weathering, which in many cases was the same with the real world as well, a heck of a lot of rivets & surrounds were covered by dirt & grease, making them unseen.

As for the emoticons for the steel, yep, maybe these ones may apply ShockedSurprisedSadCrying or Very sadRolling Eyes I guess its a matter of picking one or all.

  allan Chief Commissioner

There is a lot of variety among the M vans. The offerings from SDS, Austrains and SEM are all different, even if they are all 18' vans. There's still opportunity to do the 20' M van.
  John48 Beginner

Location: Up on the Murray

Austrains = pass, the woodgrain spoils the look. That's very funny that they have woodgrain on the buffer beams too. Laughing Dr Phil asks, "what were you thinking?"

More than happy to pay more for the premier products from SDS, while the new steam era truck looks like a top notch effort. 8)

  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...

It could be to do with a small detail that was copied from an SEM kit onto one of their models, and also other things that I know of.

Take a look at the new M wagons on the Austrains site, the smeggy woodgrain has even been put onto the wagon headstocks. They were made of steel.

The SEM web site will be updated later today with photos of the re-tooled M wagon kit.

"TheBlacksmith"


Plot thickens, do you mean like a "watermark-esk" item, as such? Might wait to see them in person, maybe it could be pixellation in the JPEG image?

Wolfpac

  jamiepb Junior Train Controller

Hi every one. I would be careful about suggesting anyone is "copying" another manufacture's product without 100% proof.
Just a thought.
Cheers
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
Austrains have a new newsletter on their website this morning;

http://www.austrains.com.au/newsletters/NEWSLETTER_60_april_2013_ver1.pdf
Regards,

Toby
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Hi every one. I would be careful about suggesting anyone is "copying" another manufacture's product without 100% proof.
Just a thought.
Cheers
jamiepb
It would not be the first time or last time it has been done, some models done in plastic have copied brass models made years ago and have exactly the same mistakes as the brass model as well. I assume that when it comes to some details that rather than take a cut lunch and a water bottle and go on an expedition etc they simply consult a model hoping that the original was pretty well right, which in some cases is not true.

You cannot call making a RTR wagon using a kit built version as a basis a copy really. As one comes ready to plonk and the other needs to be assembled before you plonk it, copying to me means making an exact duplicate of the original kit or whatever and then selling that as your own. Using a kit model as a basis but making whole new artwork and moulds etc is alright just as long as you dont scan or mould the original kit build to make your RTR model. If things like this were done you could accuse Austrains for copying SDS in the M vans or vice a versa who ever had them out first. You would of course need proof, but it amounts to the same thing nearly. Both manufactures have done these models and it will happen again when someone else doubles up on something already done.

How many of us modellers use a RTR model to detail a kit built version of something. It gets done nearly every day of the week nearly. We modellers want a near precise model of the original car so it can be hard to claim that Jo Blow Models copied my kit exactly, they may have scanned or even measured the same wagon, that the original kit maker measured up. If this is the case then I would expect both models to be almost exactly the same in actual fact.
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

These 81/G/BL class are blowing out. Super keen to see that 81 class sample when she turns up.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
v1 update of the April newsletter added 26/5, along with a '4 wheeler showcase'. The recently released VR T/P/U/HD & NSW 1915 CW aren't yet shown ('no image' placeholders ready for updating). I picked up some packs of these new wagons at the weekends Albury exhibition, might post pics later.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
You cannot call making a RTR wagon using a kit built version as a basis a copy really. As one comes ready to plonk and the other needs to be assembled before you plonk it, copying to me means making an exact duplicate of the original kit or whatever and then selling that as your own. Using a kit model as a basis but making whole new artwork and moulds etc is alright just as long as you dont scan or mould the original kit build to make your RTR model. If things like this were done you could accuse Austrains for copying SDS in the M vans or vice a versa who ever had them out first. You would of course need proof, but it amounts to the same thing nearly. Both manufactures have done these models and it will happen again when someone else doubles up on something already done.
"David Peters"

Really? So if we consider it the other way and I take Commodore or Falcon straight out the factory, make an exact copy and sell you the 'kit' consisting of the chassis/body etc with the doors, bonnet, boot lid, motor and wheels in a separate box Holden and Ford can/will do nothing? - Unlikely.

I think you need a lesson in passing off and what 'prior art' means. When you make something for yourself you have things that people who have copied you do not have, photos, measurements, diagrams recording key (and obscure dimensions) hastily drawn as the museum closes in three seconds, not to mention the 327 tax receipts for the museum entry because 325 times you've had to go back for that 'one last measurement' you forgot to get before. If they wanted to be so generous (and waste their time in reality) I am sure both Mr Hollywood and Mr SEM could show you many examples of these, I would be surprised in the extreme if those producing what we expect are copies could provide you with anything like the same. (Well they might have retained the receipt for the original kit and possibly for the building and painting of same for a GST input credit, then again, they might not too).

We can debate the (il)legalities of what's going on and whether there is actually anything actionable happening, but don't fool yourself into thinking (rightly or wrongly) that this is not happening.
  a6et Minister for Railways

v1 update of the April newsletter added 26/5, along with a '4 wheeler showcase'. The recently released VR T/P/U/HD & NSW 1915 CW aren't yet shown ('no image' placeholders ready for updating). I picked up some packs of these new wagons at the weekends Albury exhibition, might post pics later.
Poath Junction
Wonderful update, still cannot get a link to the standard LV order page, that is non Meat Vans & Milk vans.  No matter where you click you get the same order page, even though the news page has the LV's listed in 4 packs.

Unless they are not to be sold outside of exhibitions, but nothing in the newsletters updates since Forestville anyway.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
More updates as we speak... The new VR 4 wheeler pics now online

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