Zinc concentrate....what's it look like?

 
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
I'm going to be modelling a train based on the old NSWGR "W44" ore concentrate train that ran from Broken Hill to Cockle Creek (I think).

However, I'm unsure what the ore looked like and what "stuff" would be best to replicate it in the wagons....hoping somebody can throw some light on the subject for me please.

I assume that I could use a type of ballast product (from Chucks Ballast or elsewhere), as I imagine the concentrate would be a dark grey/almost black product; but I'm only guessing.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Roachie

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  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
I'm going to be modelling a train based on the old NSWGR "W44" ore concentrate train that ran from Broken Hill to Cockle Creek (I think).

However, I'm unsure what the ore looked like and what "stuff" would be best to replicate it in the wagons....hoping somebody can throw some light on the subject for me please.

I assume that I could use a type of ballast product (from Chucks Ballast or elsewhere), as I imagine the concentrate would be a dark grey/almost black product; but I'm only guessing.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Roachie
"Roachie"


Its a grey/gunmetal coloured dust like a fine sand is as close as i can describe it.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
I'm going to be modelling a train based on the old NSWGR "W44" ore concentrate train that ran from Broken Hill to Cockle Creek (I think).

However, I'm unsure what the ore looked like and what "stuff" would be best to replicate it in the wagons....hoping somebody can throw some light on the subject for me please.

I assume that I could use a type of ballast product (from Chucks Ballast or elsewhere), as I imagine the concentrate would be a dark grey/almost black product; but I'm only guessing.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Roachie
Roachie
Strike a light mate, isn't there thousands of tonnes of it just up the coast in Port Pirie, just get some fines and you are home and hosed.

Mark
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Strike a light mate, isn't there thousands of tonnes of it just up the coast in Port Pirie, just get some fines and you are home and hosed.

Mark
LaidlayM
Hmmm, given me an idea. I might grab some of the black stuff they use on the "scrapes" at the golf course!!

For those of you in other states, 99% of the golf courses here in SA don't have "greens" because they can't keep the water up to them. Instead, they have "scrapes" which is basically a fine black gravel surface. Each hole is provided with a flat wooden "broom-like" device....to be used to make the surface between your ball and the hole into a sort of 18" (or so) wide roadway. Bizarre!!!

Thanks to both of you for your responses.

Roachie
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
I started my golf on those Roachie, down near Albury almost 60 years ago.  We had sand on the "greens" and a fence around each one to keep the sheep out.  Not that they would eat the sand, but little round black bullets don't help the putting surface.

I've never seen this zinc concentrate, so thanks for asking.  Learn something all the time.  Not that I intend buying the W44 model from U stinker.  What are you doing for wagons?  A kit bash or are ridgy didge kits available?  

Was the Newcastle terminal Sulphide or Sulphide Junction or something like that?  Very close to Cockle Creek.

Best regards,
John
  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner

I started my golf on those Roachie, down near Albury almost 60 years ago.  We had sand on the "greens" and a fence around each one to keep the sheep out.  Not that they would eat the sand, but little round black bullets don't help the putting surface.

I've never seen this zinc concentrate, so thanks for asking.  Learn something all the time.  Not that I intend buying the W44 model from U stinker.  What are you doing for wagons?  A kit bash or are ridgy didge kits available?  

Was the Newcastle terminal Sulphide or Sulphide Junction or something like that?  Very close to Cockle Creek.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell

John plenty of kits available Casula,Hawksmoor ,INfront and one other I cannot remember who and also Eureka are doing 5 wagon packs

http://www.flickr.com/photos/anzac1959/with/8664429946/

photo here of 2 loaded wagons heading north
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
I started my golf on those Roachie, down near Albury almost 60 years ago.  We had sand on the "greens" and a fence around each one to keep the sheep out.  Not that they would eat the sand, but little round black bullets don't help the putting surface.

I've never seen this zinc concentrate, so thanks for asking.  Learn something all the time.  Not that I intend buying the W44 model from U stinker.  What are you doing for wagons?  A kit bash or are ridgy didge kits available?  

Was the Newcastle terminal Sulphide or Sulphide Junction or something like that?  Very close to Cockle Creek.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell
G'day John,

I mentioned something last week in another section (Locos and Rolling Stock on your workbench etc).... I just saw the advert for Trainoramas NOFF wagons; 6 pack for $75-. That works out at $12.50 per wagon.....so I bought 3 packs.

Yes, I know they are not the right era for me (I model early 80's), but what the hell!!! I will be weathering them and don't care what others think.....hell, nobody visits me anyway!! hahaha

Cheers

Roachie
  a6et Minister for Railways

G'day John,

I mentioned something last week in another section (Locos and Rolling Stock on your workbench etc).... I just saw the advert for Trainoramas NOFF wagons; 6 pack for $75-. That works out at $12.50 per wagon.....so I bought 3 packs.

Yes, I know they are not the right era for me (I model early 80's), but what the hell!!! I will be weathering them and don't care what others think.....hell, nobody visits me anyway!! hahaha

Cheers

Roachie
Roachie
Bill

The photo's of the two wagons in Anzacs pics are pretty good & indicates the colour well.  It would not be too hard to replicate the load using very fine coal dust glued over some triangular timber corner moulding, spray it with a couple of different shades of deep grey, a bit of black & lighter mid grays.

Up till the middish 60's when the GP's, & older G wagons were used the load was all covered, but from around 67 onwards with the introduction of the GC's the tarps were removed, meaning the concentrate dried out a lot more, & it tended to show light grey to white washes along the base edges, almost like you see with land that has been affected by salts, which was the affect of the minerals in the concentrate.

The concentrate was heavy & why it sat so low in the wagons, on arrival at Sulphide, the wagons had a water slurry mix pumped into the wagons, & the whole concentrate was mixed together & then pumped out of the wagons, once the main load was cleared out, they had workers go into the wagons & sweep all the remaining concentrated dust into piles & again it was sucked out along with every part of the wagon, such was the value of it.

The wagons had to be cleared within the one shift & placed in the up yard to return to BH.  The workers who did the unloading had to change & wash themselves before leaving the works, so that every bit of the dust was washed off them, as well as the company washed their work clothes to get any residue from them also.  The wash rooms had special slurry lines to take the concentrate to the main sections.

For those who could remember the piles of concentrate at Sulphide works & was visible from the main line, it was common to see the white salt like colours along the bottoms of the piles, as the open piles were kept damp.

If your not too fussed with total accuracy, then paint the NOFF's all over black/gun metal & red stripe the ends, along with weathering they can be made not that bad to how a GP looked, some work on the outside bracing may be required if needed.
  allan Chief Commissioner

As the stuff leaves the mines, it is a paste. Wet, sticky, smelly and corrosive. The nearest "everyday" material that I can think of is solder paste. Sometimes drier, but often more sloppy. If left uncovered in the hot, it can grow a dry crust, which can turn to fine dust if it is disturbed. Concentrates allowed to dry in the bottom of wagons may need to be jack-hammered out.

In railway wagons the concentrates tend to retain their shape, which is dependent on the loader.

There was an article in AMRM 12/1985 which covered the SO and SOC wagons of the SAR, and had a lot of good photos. My photos are at http://noarail.com/members2/v/Allan/Prototype+photographs/Old+photos/NR/NR+Rollingstock/SO/ and include a few of emptied wagons on their way back (with dregs in the bottom of the wagons).
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Thanks for all the invaluable advice everybody!!! Great stuff.

Roachie
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
.....hell, nobody visits me anyway!! hahaha
Roachie
Roachie,

When I think about getting things "right" that thought comes to me also.  Anyone who does visit knows stuff all about NSWGR.  If I was doing kereta api Indonesia might be more of a worry.  So as long as I am happy with the authenticity all is OK.

Of course I don't want to discourage visitors.  Anyone coming through Jakarta send me a PM and you will be welcome.  All except prototype Nazis that is! Laughing

Best regards,
John
  1555 Train Controller

zinc concentrate looks like the black sand that you see at the sand mining operations at the beach, it is abrasive  and the dust from it gets over just about everything at the flotation plant. Its texture looks like the surface of a sheet of coarse "wet and dry", and its heavy.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Nobody visits me anyway!! hahaha

Cheers

Roachie
Roachie
About time the Model Railway Police, Prototype Squad paid a visit then Roachie. LaughingLaughing
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
No worries David.....they'll be offered a coffee (or burbon) and shown the nude layout and then shown the door if they should so much as utter any nasty words!!! hahaha

Nasty words are considered to be: "steam roller wheels"......"wrong era"....."wrong paint scheme"....."code 100 is too big" etc etc!!! hahahaha

Cheers, Roachie
  tezza Chief Commissioner

About time the Model Railway Police, Prototype Squad paid a visit then Roachie. LaughingLaughing
David Peters

you might get a surprise visit at 3am by  Head of Prototype Gestapo Terry Flynn

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