Return of the redhens and belair depot closure

 
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
I wait with interest as well, I work within the Bombardier regime and there has been no talk about Belair within Dry Creek Depot, this would be the first time the grape vine has let me down.

Wayne

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  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

I have also just heard rumours and innuendo regarding the closure of Belair depot. Until such time it is formally in writing (the last written evidence said it would be closed indefinitely not permanently as per correspondence posted up between PTS and RTBU).

alcoworldseries - I don't mean to sound obtuse, but your information regarding Grange is obviously rather outdated. There are NO substitute bus services at all any more and haven't been for months and months, the Grange line operates before peak, during interpeak and after peak, and during peak times they are timed to connect with Glanville services on the down, and Harbors on the up IIRC. In any instance, it works fine now. 
  AFULE Chief Train Controller

Location: South Australia
I have also just heard rumours and innuendo regarding the closure of Belair depot. Until such time it is formally in writing (the last written evidence said it would be closed indefinitely not permanently as per correspondence posted up between PTS and RTBU).

alcoworldseries - I don't mean to sound obtuse, but your information regarding Grange is obviously rather outdated. There are NO substitute bus services at all any more and haven't been for months and months, the Grange line operates before peak, during interpeak and after peak, and during peak times they are timed to connect with Glanville services on the down, and Harbors on the up IIRC. In any instance, it works fine now.
"Jumbo2001"


Nice to see someone else trying to report factual correct info on this forum:)
 
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Only quoting what came out of the mouth of a Rail Commisioner Senior Driver in the crib room at the Adelaide Railway Station.. you know.. that big building on North Terrace there.. that says ADELAIDE STATION... after the meeting was closed.. he came in and announced to me and all that were sitting there... Belair is gone.. won't be opening up after the closure...

I have a nice batch of humble pies in the oven.. let me know who wants some...???!! Laughing
"defman70"

You can't beat Friday afternoon crib room talk for accurate information.   

Did he give you the Saturday X-Lotto numbers as well?



  defman Station Master

You can't beat Friday afternoon crib room talk for accurate information.  

Did he give you the Saturday X-Lotto numbers as well?
bingley hall
AFULE and BINGLEY HALL.. and like minded people .... it would appear he DID give me the x-lotto numbers.........................
  defman Station Master

Nice to see someone else trying to report factual correct info on this forum:)
AFULE
Baked a nice batch of humble pies.. going cheap...!?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Baked a nice batch of humble pies.. going cheap...!?
"defman"

Belair is gone? Whodathunk?
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
what is the latest news regarding the Belair line depot?
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

what is the latest news regarding the Belair line depot?
Heath Loxton
It is closed. No intention to reopen it currently, but never say never
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
It is closed. No intention to reopen it currently, but never say never
Jumbo2001

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the effect on operations (when the Belair line reopens)?

IE: Does that affect overnight stabling?

Thanks,

Richard.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the effect on operations (when the Belair line reopens)?

IE: Does that affect overnight stabling?

Thanks,

Richard.
"rwatts"

If the depot is closed then no trains will be stored there overnight, and hence a few extra services in the early AM and late night
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
If the depot is closed then no trains will be stored there overnight, and hence a few extra services in the early AM and late night
Pressman
Thanks for that.  It will be interesting to see how they manage it.  I often hear the last down train under the existing timetable pass through Blackwood around 00:25.  I doubt too many passengers would be catching a 00:40 or thereabouts up service so I wonder if the timetable will be "enhanced" as a result.

Richard.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

If the depot is closed then no trains will be stored there overnight, and hence a few extra services in the early AM and late night
Pressman
Thanks for that.  It will be interesting to see how they manage it.  I often hear the last down train under the existing timetable pass through Blackwood around 00:25.  I doubt too many passengers would be catching a 00:40 or thereabouts up service so I wonder if the timetable will be "enhanced" as a result.

Richard.
rwatts

IF the stabling sidings are closed as well as the crew depot, I can see there being fewer services or no change, rather than more.

The current weekday morning timetable is imbalanced by five services which are not formed by down services having a short layover. This is enough that it could be sorted out by running the first three down services as long consists that would divide at Belair (using the platform and one of the sidings) into eight shorter consists to run into the city.

The afternoon/evening timetable is also imbalanced by five services which don't immediately return to the city as up services. Three of these could be resolved by the next arriving train coupling up and returning to the city as 4-5 car consists, but something else will need to be worked out for the 10:55 and 11:55 departures from Adelaide which previously arrived at Belair and stabled for the night.

I don't think it would be too long before the stabling sidings are returned to use, unless maintaining the sidings really is more expensive than all the manpower and the extra wear and tear (both people and DMUs) incurred by adding in a whole lot of wear non-service trips between Belair and Dry Creek. If the reason behind it is to do with vandalism, erecting a cheap and cheerful shed over the top shouldn't be too hard.
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
IF the stabling sidings are closed as well as the crew depot, I can see there being fewer services or no change, rather than more.
justapassenger
I was certainly using "enhanced" in its modern usage - that is benefiting the large organisation using the term in its spin and never the consumer at who it is aimed.

Whether closing the crew depot necessarily means closing the stabling facility was the crux of my question which Pressman responded to rather emphatically.

The current weekday morning timetable is imbalanced by five services which are not formed by down services having a short layover. This is enough that it could be sorted out by running the first three down services as long consists that would divide at Belair (using the platform and one of the sidings) into eight shorter consists to run into the city.

The afternoon/evening timetable is also imbalanced by five services which don't immediately return to the city as up services. Three of these could be resolved by the next arriving train coupling up and returning to the city as 4-5 car consists, but something else will need to be worked out for the 10:55 and 11:55 departures from Adelaide which previously arrived at Belair and stabled for the night.
justapassenger
Can drivers split and divide consists - ie couple and uncouple?  In the scenarios you describe there could at least be multiple drivers present but is this a task they would do or would you need other personnel present for this?

I don't think it would be too long before the stabling sidings are returned to use, unless maintaining the sidings really is more expensive than all the manpower and the extra wear and tear (both people and DMUs) incurred by adding in a whole lot of wear non-service trips between Belair and Dry Creek. If the reason behind it is to do with vandalism, erecting a cheap and cheerful shed over the top shouldn't be too hard.
justapassenger
My possibly faulty recollection of the Belair stabling was of chain mesh topped with tiger wire. Certainly not going to thwart the determined vandal but presumably the presence of a crew depot doesn't have a great impact on the amount of vandalism overnight?

With no Gaol loop, wouldn't any non-service trip from Belair to Dry Creek go via Adelaide Station anyhow?  

Just what are the major costs involved in running a crew depot at Belair?  I presume drivers start and end their shifts at depots, so that if stabling was retained then the drivers would be supplied with transport from and to a depot.

Richard.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I was certainly using "enhanced" in its modern usage - that is benefiting the large organisation using the term in its spin and never the consumer at who it is aimed.
rwatts
Ah yes, I missed the scare quotes the first time round.

Can drivers split and divide consists - ie couple and uncouple?  In the scenarios you describe there could at least be multiple drivers present but is this a task they would do or would you need other personnel present for this?
rwatts
When the DEMUs are joined/split at Adelaide they certainly have at least one person supervising it from the platform (and jumping across to connect/disconnect the chains between the doors) but I don't know if this is part of a driver's role or something that somebody else does.


With no Gaol loop, wouldn't any non-service trip from Belair to Dry Creek go via Adelaide Station anyhow?  
rwatts
Yes, but to run the very late ones as "not in service" trains could allow the Wilson security guards to knock off at Belair and not require ARS to be kept open past midnight for theoretical passengers that wouldn't actually exist in reality.

My possibly faulty recollection of the Belair stabling was of chain mesh topped with tiger wire. Certainly not going to thwart the determined vandal but presumably the presence of a crew depot doesn't have a great impact on the amount of vandalism overnight?
rwatts
I thought it was metal palisades with some sort of cladding to provide a visual barrier, and topped with tiger wire. The combination of the visual barrier and the many security cameras should make it a pretty unattractive target for even lobbing stuff over the fence.

I don't think the presence of the crew depot would have any effect on vandalism. I think it's over on the other side of the station anyway, that's where the drivers seem to go to and come from when they swap over.
  defman Station Master

Belair line is back in the first or second week of July... The set workings include terminating at Blackwood regularly through out the day... Looks like back to working some trains... we've had a nice time off.. heheheh!

Belair drivers have all gone elsewhere.. most to Adelaide and a few waiting to see if they get Seaford... All those doubting Thomas' who questioned my info... AND X-lotto numbers... Shame on you!
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
The set workings include terminating at Blackwood regularly through out the day...
defman
Can you tell us more about this?  

Thirty-something years ago I used to regularly catch a morning peak hour service that commenced from Blackwood (on platform 3 now given over to the standard gauge line) but don't recall any services terminating there.

Richard.
  defman Station Master

Can you tell us more about this?  

Thirty-something years ago I used to regularly catch a morning peak hour service that commenced from Blackwood (on platform 3 now given over to the standard gauge line) but don't recall any services terminating there.

Richard.
rwatts
Not really, Just had a quick look through the draft set workings and they are showing Blackwood terminators... change ends and back out. I believe one of their plans is to alternate Blackwood and Belair services.. but at the moment it looks like not that regular at this stage.. I didn't take a very close look.. I mean they have you for 8 hours.... you just do what they tell you!
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

Not really, Just had a quick look through the draft set workings and they are showing Blackwood terminators... change ends and back out. I believe one of their plans is to alternate Blackwood and Belair services.. but at the moment it looks like not that regular at this stage.. I didn't take a very close look.. I mean they have you for 8 hours.... you just do what they tell you!
defman

I believe they are only there for peaks, as trains that would previously stable at Belair now have to come back as you know, the Blackwood ones are terminating because of the lack of loop between there and Belair.

Also the last service is slated to leave ARS at 0023. So infact, they have made the service later, and it wont get back to ARS until after the last OH train has arrived.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
And now for the desktop warriors and after speaking with the Minister yesterday I'd suggest you watch this space, he had no idea of the comlexities of the additional empty movements in the train plan OR the lack of capacity at Dry Creek. And before the Liberal hacks here start braying and you know who you are, the Minister is NOT responsible for micro managing the system the DPTI people are responsible for planning etc.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

And now for the desktop warriors and after speaking with the Minister yesterday I'd suggest you watch this space, he had no idea of the comlexities of the additional empty movements in the train plan OR the lack of capacity at Dry Creek. And before the Liberal hacks here start braying and you know who you are, the Minister is NOT responsible for micro managing the system the DPTI people are responsible for planning etc.
alcoworldseries
I doubt any Liberal minister would have any chance of knowing any better.
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
i believe the trains will stable in the blackwood siding just after platform 1 after the loop is that correct?

wouldn't it be good if in peak times the all stations trains running to and from blackwood stopped at millswood, hawthorn and clapham and alternating trains ran to and from belair not stopping at the disused stations!
  Seldom_21 Junior Train Controller

Location: South Australia
no it would not be good, because, as people have said on ample occasions, it would increase travel time significantly, and I, for one, would not be a happy commuter. These stations have been closed for yonks, why open them now? All they are, are surviving relics of the old rail days; honestly, I don't see why they didn't demolish them ages ago, but oh well.
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
i believe the trains will stable in the blackwood siding just after platform 1 after the loop is that correct?
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Doubt they will stable Heath slight chance they will go in there prior to turning back.

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