don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
And while that responsibility is now clear if there is no easy way to calculate the fare yourself how are you to know what's left after a trip?  Balances can be checked but not at every single point of exit from the system.  In particular there is no requirement to tag off trams for most journeys meaning the balance is not known until the card is next used.

I don't often advocate American-style justice but I could see some of their no-win-no-fee mob having a field day with Myki.
Gwiwer

There's so much that's not supposed to happen but unfortunately there's some really draconian laws backing up the imposition of this ticketing system that always tend to assume the passenger is trying to rip them off.  I think because we've got a history of ticketing failures like scratchie cards they made sure this time that it was extra-tight but perversely you can do all the right things and still get fined.

I have cited this example before but I can think of at least two occasions this year on boarding a vehicle where all the validators are not functioning.  If I have my phone on me I always take video of my efforts because you never know where you stand if the inspectors get on and the validators suddenly start working.  Only today I was on a tram where the validator next to me was drifting in and out of functionality the whole trip, making funny noises.

How would an ordinary person prove that they had taken 'reasonable steps' to validate under those circumstances?  If you can't then $207 thanks very much.

Also, you're up against a pretty powerful bureaucracy with deep pockets if you do take them on - we have a wholly-separate statutory authority representing that card whose job it is to maintain, defend, promote and silence dissent against their product because their jobs depend on it.  I believe that if there's ever any successful legal action against the TTA because of their substandard product you can be sure they will pay extra to keep it confidential, they don't want any bad press about it in the public domain.

Sponsored advertisement

  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
You'd think we might have learned from experience.  Scratchies - fail; Metcard - not ideal and Metcard Express was a complete fail; Myki - partial fail and massive cost blowout.  Eventually any truths of consequence will emerge under FOI.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The many different moods of myki 'I'm broken':

  • Sometimes there's the simple 'Out of service - use another myki reader' (red light - yes, I'm broken).  
  • Or there's the ever-popular APPLICATION STARTING together with multiple flashing lights (I could start working any second but then again maybe I won't! Ha!).  
  • Occasionally you will think everything is okay but the bus driver will tell you to use another one because the one at the entrance is stuffed - this happened to me recently.  Similarly on a tram you'll hold it up to the reader and get the rejection noise multiple times before giving up and moving on (I'm broken but I still think I'm working).  
  • Often you'll see one with a completely blank screen and all three lights blazing (read me my last rites Father Bob, I'm not long for this world);
  • By far my favourite at the moment is the one where they have obviously dropped their Windows ME program and are scrolling lines of computer language at you (stuff validating, I've got a headache).  I have a picture of one doing this only recently - it's a new and exciting kind of broken.  
  • I also saw one on a tram once that was leaking liquid crystal everywhere, poor thing had taken a beating.  I think you'd also have to call Father Bob for that one too.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Geelong to Portarlington is not more than two zones. Geelong is in Zone 4, Portarlington is in Zone 5. Therefore, off-peak fares do not apply.
alstom_888m
Melbourne to Portarlington is still one journey (if done in the time limit allowed.) so for a zone 1 to 5 will apply and off-peak will apply if the journey is done in off-peak time or chance  the rule may still apply if one of trip is count as been off-peak and then a off-peak fare will be apply for whole journey
What is the difference between a trip and a journey ?

A trip is the act of travelling from point A to point B with no transfers (a single trip).
A journey on the other hand can be one or a number of trips (transfers) combined to make it from point A to B. When making a number of trips to get to your destination it is still one journey if you touch on in a  given time limit.
  liron Junior Train Controller

A trip is the act of travelling from point A to point B with no transfers (a single trip).
A journey on the other hand can be one or a number of trips (transfers) combined to make it from point A to B. When making a number of trips to get to your destination it is still one journey if you touch on in a  given time limit.
melbtrip

That's true in Brisbane, but in Victoria, a trip and a journey are defined as the same thing.  Personally I like the Brisbane definition.
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
MelbTRIPE, please go away, your information is, as usual, scatty and useless. Please find another home to visit, and please desist from posting your disinformation on these pages.

Dave
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Melbourne to Portarlington is still one journey (if done in the time limit allowed.) so for a zone 1 to 5 will apply and off-peak will apply if the journey is done in off-peak time or chance  the rule may still apply if one of trip is count as been off-peak and then a off-peak fare will be apply for whole journeyWhat is the difference between a trip and a journey ?

A trip is the act of travelling from point A to point B with no transfers (a single trip).
A journey on the other hand can be one or a number of trips (transfers) combined to make it from point A to B. When making a number of trips to get to your destination it is still one journey if you touch on in a  given time limit.
melbtrip

3rd time. There are NO off peak fares on Geelong and Bellarine buses. I have shown you what fares apply in the region.
Do you understand english, Melbtrip?
You do not know what you are talking about. You have not, thus far, provided ANY link to where peak/off peak fares apply on Geelong and Bellarine Transit Systems, and what these charges are. I live in the area, and have been travelling on the Geelong-Queenscliff bus for 8 years now, so I think I know what I am talking about. You don't.
  Mitty Assistant Commissioner

Location: Hawthorn
The many different moods of myki 'I'm broken':

  • Sometimes there's the simple 'Out of service - use another myki reader' (red light - yes, I'm broken).  
  • Or there's the ever-popular APPLICATION STARTING together with multiple flashing lights (I could start working any second but then again maybe I won't! Ha!).  
  • Occasionally you will think everything is okay but the bus driver will tell you to use another one because the one at the entrance is stuffed - this happened to me recently.  Similarly on a tram you'll hold it up to the reader and get the rejection noise multiple times before giving up and moving on (I'm broken but I still think I'm working).  
  • Often you'll see one with a completely blank screen and all three lights blazing (read me my last rites Father Bob, I'm not long for this world);
  • By far my favourite at the moment is the one where they have obviously dropped their Windows ME program and are scrolling lines of computer language at you (stuff validating, I've got a headache).  I have a picture of one doing this only recently - it's a new and exciting kind of broken.  
  • I also saw one on a tram once that was leaking liquid crystal everywhere, poor thing had taken a beating.  I think you'd also have to call Father Bob for that one too.
don_dunstan
You forgot the completely fabulous "In Service - Processing, please wait".  

Meanwhile, I'm wondering how much I'll pay if have a zone 1 myki pass on my card, and travel to Seymour on an off peak service.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
3rd time. There are NO off peak fares on Geelong and Bellarine buses. I have shown you what fares apply in the region.
Do you understand english, Melbtrip?
You do not know what you are talking about. You have not, thus far, provided ANY link to where peak/off peak fares apply on Geelong and Bellarine Transit Systems, and what these charges are. I live in the area, and have been travelling on the Geelong-Queenscliff bus for 8 years now, so I think I know what I am talking about. You don't.
xxxxlbear

I understand English well, yes there is no off-peak fares for two zones or less, but when a  journey  enters a three zones for example: journey from  Queenscliff to Werribee and there is off-peak fares

1st trip  bus from Queenscliff at 9:11am  and arrives at Geelong Railway station at 10:20 am and then myki should calculated my fare been as zone 5  to zone 4 = equals to 2 ( no including Melbourne zone 1 ) =  $3.48
2nd trip Geelong railway station(zone 4) at 9:26am arrives at Werribee (zone 2) at 9:59am

so fare from Queenscliff to Werribee  = to zone 5 to  zone 2 = 4 zones (no including Melbourne zone 1 )  = $3.92 4 zones (not include zone 1) off-peak single fare *min of two hours limit
so I have paid for $3.48 for  my trip between Queenscliff to Geelong and now cost me $0.04 extra to travel to Werribee

I pay $3.92 but $5.60 will count towards my daily cap


Fares for all journeys in more than two zones receive an off-peak discount, except where touch off occurs within Zone 1 before 9am on a business day or touch on occurs within Zone 1 between 4pm and 6pm on a business day.

In this case - I have not touch off in zone 1 before 9am or touch on between 4pm and 6pm in zone 1, there for my journey counts as been as off-peak fare -  information on page 22
Victorian fares and ticketing manual


  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
First class travelFrom the 24 June 2013, first class seating will not be available within the commuter service boundary for myki holders. myki ticket holders travelling on long-distance services within the commuter service boundary can obtain a nil value seat reservation V/Net ticket by calling 1800 800 007.
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
My occasional travels from Ballarat to Melbourne are normally covered by a V/Line paper ticket plus zones 1+2. When in Melbourne I use the paper ticket to travel around. However, when we move to miki will my travel end up costing me more ?
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
My occasional travels from Ballarat to Melbourne are normally covered by a V/Line paper ticket plus zones 1+2. When in Melbourne I use the paper ticket to travel around. However, when we move to miki will my travel end up costing me more ?
dean65

Fare will cost the same amount. (you need to have or  buy a myki card)
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
My occasional travels from Ballarat to Melbourne are normally covered by a V/Line paper ticket plus zones 1+2. When in Melbourne I use the paper ticket to travel around. However, when we move to miki will my travel end up costing me more ?
dean65
I can't imagine it would. Presuming you touched on at Ballarat, then touched off at Southern Cross. Then touched on at an adjacent Tram (or Metro train), I presume the 2 hour grace period for Zones 1-x fares would still apply, and snag you a 'free' trip. Much as myki currently operates (and Metcard before that).
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
I can't imagine it would. Presuming you touched on at Ballarat, then touched off at Southern Cross. Then touched on at an adjacent Tram (or Metro train), I presume the 2 hour grace period for Zones 1-x fares would still apply, and snag you a 'free' trip. Much as myki currently operates (and Metcard before that).
Flygon
0- 5zones:           0 hour extra  -    minimum time given 2 hours
6-11 zones :        1 hour extra -     minimum time given 3 hours
12-17 zones:       2 hours extra-    minimum time given 4 hours
18-23 zones:       3 hours extra-    minimum time given 5 hours
24-29 zones:       4 hours extra-    minimum time given 6 hours
30-35 zones:       5 hours extra-    minimum time given 7 hours

zone 1  to 8 fare  = minimum time given 3 hours
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I understand English well, yes there is no off-peak fares for two zones or less, but when a  journey  enters a three zones for example: journey from  Queenscliff to Werribee and there is off-peak fares

1st trip  bus from Queenscliff at 9:11am  and arrives at Geelong Railway station at 10:20 am and then myki should calculated my fare been as zone 5  to zone 4 = equals to 2 ( no including Melbourne zone 1 ) =  $3.48
2nd trip Geelong railway station(zone 4) at 9:26am arrives at Werribee (zone 2) at 9:59am

so fare from Queenscliff to Werribee  = to zone 5 to  zone 2 = 4 zones (no including Melbourne zone 1 )  = $3.92 4 zones (not include zone 1) off-peak single fare *min of two hours limit
so I have paid for $3.48 for  my trip between Queenscliff to Geelong and now cost me $0.04 extra to travel to Werribee

I pay $3.92 but $5.60 will count towards my daily cap


Fares for all journeys in more than two zones receive an off-peak discount, except where touch off occurs within Zone 1 before 9am on a business day or touch on occurs within Zone 1 between 4pm and 6pm on a business day.

In this case - I have not touch off in zone 1 before 9am or touch on between 4pm and 6pm in zone 1, there for my journey counts as been as off-peak fare -  information on page 22
Victorian fares and ticketing manual

melbtrip
I see where you're getting that from - but what happens when your journey is entirely on buses?
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
I see where you're getting that from - but what happens when your journey is entirely on buses?
railblogger

Then it should be off-peak, for example the bus at 4:53 am at Ballarat and gets to Melbourne at 6.40am on a business day


normally they count bus services been off-peak
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Then it should be off-peak, for example the bus at 4:53 am at Ballarat and gets to Melbourne at 6.40am on a business day


normally they count bus services been off-peak
melbtrip
Not what I meant as V/Line coaches are not being switched to myki at this point in time.

What I meant was, say, if you travelled from Portarlington to Lara on buses, or from Flinders Street to Portsea where no part of your trip is on a V/Line service?
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Railblogger, before Melbtrip steps in, I can let you know that all you will pay for a Portarlington to Lara trip is $3.48 adult 2 hours, and $1.74 concession/child 2 hours according to the current Myki fare structure provided by McHarrys, link is: Myki Fares, Geelong and Bellarine area, zones 3 & 4

The fare based on Geelong (zone 4) + Bellarine area (zone 5).
Lara is covered by the Geelong Zone (zone 4), and Portarlington is covered by the Bellarine Zone (zone 5).
Lara is a Geelong suburban bus route Route 12 Geelong City - Lara
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Railblogger, before Melbtrip steps in, I can let you know that all you will pay for a Portarlington to Lara trip is $3.48 adult 2 hours, and $1.74 concession/child 2 hours according to the current Myki fare structure provided by McHarrys, link is: Myki Fares, Geelong and Bellarine area, zones 3 & 4

The fare based on Geelong (zone 4) + Bellarine area (zone 5).
Lara is covered by the Geelong Zone (zone 4), and Portarlington is covered by the Bellarine Zone (zone 5).
Lara is a Geelong suburban bus route Route 12 Geelong City - Lara
xxxxlbear
Ok it appears I got my zones mixed up. What about travelling from the city to Portsea?
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Railblogger, Myki (and the PTV) aren't loading for me at the moment, and Grendas (which owns Portsea Bus Service) does not have any information of its own (it refers users to the PTV web site).

But I would presume, (and I am only presuming), that Melbourne CBD to Portsea would be a zone 1+2+3 trip, and as peak/off peak tickets only seem to apply to V/Line travel, it would be the standard Myki fares that apply.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Railblogger, Myki (and the PTV) aren't loading for me at the moment, and Grendas (which owns Portsea Bus Service) does not have any information of its own (it refers users to the PTV web site).

But I would presume, (and I am only presuming), that Melbourne CBD to Portsea would be a zone 1+2+3 trip, and as peak/off peak tickets only seem to apply to V/Line travel, it would be the standard Myki fares that apply.
xxxxlbear

Melbourne = Zone 1

Portsea = zone 4

So for a fare from Melbourne to Portsea will be a zone 1 to 4

Here is the off-peak rule under myki


Fares for all journeys in more than two zones on services receive an off-peak discount, except where touch off occurs within zone 1 before 9.00 am Monday to Firday(on non government gazette holiday date) or touch on occurs within zone 1 between 4.00 pm and 6.00 pm on a Monday to Firday(on non government gazette holiday date).

When using myki when travelling on V/Line it not called V/Line fare but a myki fare
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Melbourne = Zone 1

Portsea = zone 4

So for a fare from Melbourne to Portsea will be a zone 1 to 4

Here is the off-peak rule under myki


Fares for all journeys in more than two zones on services receive an off-peak discount, except where touch off occurs within zone 1 before 9.00 am Monday to Firday(on non government gazette holiday date) or touch on occurs within zone 1 between 4.00 pm and 6.00 pm on a Monday to Firday(on non government gazette holiday date).

When using myki when travelling on V/Line it not called V/Line fare but a myki fare
melbtrip

Revenue, where are you? Confused
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
I can't imagine it would. Presuming you touched on at Ballarat, then touched off at Southern Cross. Then touched on at an adjacent Tram (or Metro train), I presume the 2 hour grace period for Zones 1-x fares would still apply, and snag you a 'free' trip. Much as myki currently operates (and Metcard before that).
Flygon
The two hour grace period is what I am worried about. Will it still continue to operate ? Will have to test this out when the time comes. If the answer is no then I will go back to paper. However, Myki is easier to use saving you the time queueing for a paper ticket.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Melbourne = Zone 1

Portsea = zone 4

So for a fare from Melbourne to Portsea will be a zone 1 to 4

Here is the off-peak rule under myki


Fares for all journeys in more than two zones on services receive an off-peak discount, except where touch off occurs within zone 1 before 9.00 am Monday to Firday(on non government gazette holiday date) or touch on occurs within zone 1 between 4.00 pm and 6.00 pm on a Monday to Firday(on non government gazette holiday date).

When using myki when travelling on V/Line it not called V/Line fare but a myki fare
melbtrip
I remain unconvinced that this will apply to non-V/Line trips so I've contacted myki and asked them to clarify.

EDIT: Just read this on the PTV website:

http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/regional-fares/

*Fares for all journeys in more than two zones on V/Line services receive a 30% off-peak discount, except where touch off occurs within Zone 1 before 9am on a business day or touch on occurs within Zone 1 between 4pm and 6pm on a business day. Customers must touch on and off to receive an off-peak fare. Excludes fares on metropolitan services.
PTV
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
I remain unconvinced that this will apply to non-V/Line trips so I've contacted myki and asked them to clarify.

EDIT: Just read this on the PTV website:

http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/regional-fares/
railblogger

it was change in the  No. S 103 Friday 22 March 2013  Victoria gazette-In Chapter 3 of the Myki Manual, under the heading ‘Automatic fare calculation’, in the first paragraph under the heading ‘Off-peak discounts’ delete ‘on V/Line services’

so it now - Fares for all journeys in more than two zones on services receive an off-peak discount, except where touch off occurs within zone 1 before 9.00 am Monday to Firday on business day or touch on occurs within zone 1 between 4.00 pm and 6.00 pm on a Monday to Firday on business day

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