That so, eh?  Who might this naughty member be? Never been a great fan of vague accusations, myself.

Yes i also dont like vauge accusations or gossip and half truths so come on petan who was it?

And another grown-up leaves...

This place is slowly dying.

Some grown ups still lurk. I lurk too, to keep the grown ups company.

M

And another grown-up leaves...

This place is slowly dying.

A look at the Sydney forum is quiet telling in that regard. The number of reliable posters has gone down to near nought. Instead, it is filled with the wet dream scratchings of " this iz how I wants the twainz to run". Gone are the solid, reliable sources of information. Gone are those who took the time to try and explain something to the new people in the crowd.

When you get somebody who repeatedly sock-puppets, is repeatedly banned and then finds themselves on the developer team, well I think that just says it all.


Railpage might be an open forum, but by opening your doors and catering "to everyone from 8 to 80" you lose what made the website good in the first place. Crow all you want about how many members you have, how many of them actually actively and positively contribute to the group.

I think I would rather spend my time on another forum where, I might not be as active, but you can have an intelligent conversation and disagree with someone without it turning into flame war. Or better in the various facebook groups where I can talk to other drivers without having to read to rivet counters latest essay on why they think headways on the network will lead to the collapse of civilisation.

I think the treatment of the members on this page in the industry, that go out of there way to help has been abysmal. But as long as the preferential moderation continues, so will the fall in the quality of this site. Its already at the stage where those who mention it in the industry are laughed at, I wonder how long before the inevitable occurs.

Just my (last) 2 cents

I left this page due to the general nastiness and just plain schoolyard bullying that was pervasive here, not just towards me but towards other people too. In particular, one person followed my posts and attacked or insulted me after most posts I made. Other people had similarly nasty experiences with that person and with other bullies. Things became very unpleasant, so I decided to leave this website.

But a couple of weeks ago I was informed that Sir Thomas Bent had finally been banned, so I ventured back here and it seems that he is not he only nasty person to have been chucked out. Things are pleasant and nice here now. As far as I can see, if people disagree, they do so politely and respectfully. If things stay the way they are and don't revert to the bad old days, I will be sticking around.

So thanks for the clean up!

I agree with Bogong.

I left this page due to the general nastiness and just plain schoolyard bullying that was pervasive here, not just towards me but towards other people too. In particular, one person followed my posts and attacked or insulted me after most posts I made. Other people had similarly nasty experiences with that person and with other bullies. Things became very unpleasant, so I decided to leave this website.

But a couple of weeks ago I was informed that Sir Thomas Bent had finally been banned, so I ventured back here and it seems that he is not he only nasty person to have been chucked out. Things are pleasant and nice here now. As far as I can see, if people disagree, they do so politely and respectfully. If things stay the way they are and don't revert to the bad old days, I will be sticking around.

So thanks for the clean up!

I left this page due to the general nastiness and just plain schoolyard bullying that was pervasive here, not just towards me but towards other people too. In particular, one person followed my posts and attacked or insulted me after most posts I made. Other people had similarly nasty experiences with that person and with other bullies. Things became very unpleasant, so I decided to leave this website.

But a couple of weeks ago I was informed that Sir Thomas Bent had finally been banned, so I ventured back here and it seems that he is not he only nasty person to have been chucked out. Things are pleasant and nice here now. As far as I can see, if people disagree, they do so politely and respectfully. If things stay the way they are and don't revert to the bad old days, I will be sticking around.

So thanks for the clean up!

You see the problem is, you will never be able to contribute anywhere near the amount of useful information people like STB has. This is the point, useful members are leaving in droves and the likes of yourself can't seem to see that because you may have been called a silly name or two, mind you I'd say you deserved it!

These forums will drown in foam eventually, and I genuinely think that is a sad fate.

I honestly do not believe this to be that simple.

A considerable number of valuable members have left. Some have left quietly, some have left after a final announcement here, and some have left after a final announcement... not here. A loss of any member is a loss to the Page, but these losses more than others cannot be fully replaced. Just as enthusiastic young volunteers were no substitute for seasoned veterans lost on the battlefields of times past, the empty shoes they leave behind will be difficult to fill.

But knowledge is not everything. Perhaps it is unavoidable - we are, after all, human - but not all of these living knowledge banks behaved in an appropriate manner. We are therefore drawn into a dilemma - a member may be able to explain the underlying mechanics and processes behind track stressing or analyse the intricacies of a smartcard ticketing system; however, they could then turn around and harass a particular other member, or continually ridicule and insult other members at will. How do we retain their knowledge and yet curtail such antagonism?

It is the million-dollar question that appears to still lack an answer.

That having been said, I will note that only a few members of such knowledge and ability behaved in such a manner; a great number of equally valuable members are able to share and donate what they know exceptionally pleasantly, without attacking other members in the manner of a continuously-firing, constantly-rotating turret. I will also note that not all members who attack others are of such high stature; I have on at least one prior occasion been attacked by what would be best termed a 'blithering idiot'.

I am certain that the Page will continue its journey; every journey has its ups and downs, does it not?

Well said Watson. VBAndy seems to be asserting that many of the most knowledgeable people are also the nastiest and most unpleasant. I disagree.

There are a few (non rail) subjects where I am among the 3 or 4 most knowledgeable people in the state. So I get a lot of intelligent questions from those with a base knowledge of the subject. But I also get questions from people who are new to the area, a bit naive perhaps and occasionally informed by hearsay rather than hard facts, but they are bright eyed and keen. Rather than troll those newbies and abuse them, I have standard answers to standard questions. I emphasise that those answers are just my opinion and that there are other valid perspectives. That way we encourage people new to the area, rather than piss them off and discourage them. That way interest in the area grows.

I really don't think there is any excuse for internet trolls. If they can't cope with the way their life is working out then they should be encouraged to contact an outfit like Beyond Blue rather than take their frustrations out on others in chatrooms.

I left this page due to the general nastiness and just plain schoolyard bullying that was pervasive here, not just towards me but towards other people too. In particular, one person followed my posts and attacked or insulted me after most posts I made. Other people had similarly nasty experiences with that person and with other bullies. Things became very unpleasant, so I decided to leave this website.

But a couple of weeks ago I was informed that Sir Thomas Bent had finally been banned, so I ventured back here and it seems that he is not he only nasty person to have been chucked out. Things are pleasant and nice here now. As far as I can see, if people disagree, they do so politely and respectfully. If things stay the way they are and don't revert to the bad old days, I will be sticking around.

So thanks for the clean up!

Attacking somebody after they are no longer here to defend themselves?  Classy.

And oh so brave.

No, I'm implying useful members are leaving because the forums here are full of ridiculous tripe smothered in a layer of dribble, with a cherry of fragility on top.

If the choice is between a wealth of knowledge with the occasional surly remark or a forum full of bright eyed rumour mill workers that dibber dob when someone questions or corrects them, I know what I'd prefer!

Yep, and the surly remarks I saw STB bring forth were always warranted.  He didn't just go out being rude to random users.  He's also a nice bloke in real life.

I do tend to think a lot of folks here use the term "bullying" when they really mean "outgunning me intellectually, and showing up my arguments to be generally weak, groundless, and facile".

There are a few (non rail) subjects where I am among the 3 or 4 most knowledgeable people in the state.

Bwahahahahahahha!  What I could do with this!  But I'll be a good boy, promise.  I mean, just because I don't personally have an interest in gerbils, doesn't mean I have a right to denigrate those who do.  I'm a fair-minded guy!


**snerk**

Okay TLD™, since you are sneering at me, I'll bite and provide the elaboration you seem to be fishing for. I've written dozens of web pages on different and varied aspects of Australian mountain history that have had over half a million hits. Last time I looked one of them alone had over 126,000 hits. I've also edited and indexed high profile books on mountain history throughout the world that have sold tens of thousands of copies. So I think I can claim to be an authority on mountain history generally and mountains in Australia specifically. If you really want me to, I can provide a list of most of those web pages and books here.

But we digress, the subject of this thread isn't me, but rather it's about manners and decency towards other people. I think my earlier comment about how trolls drove me and others away from this forum was valid within that context. Yes, I did mention one banned troll who seemed to be especially targeting me, but I emphasised that he was not alone in his nastiness and that there were other trolls too. In any case I don't think I reported him, but rather I quietly resolved to leave and didn't return until I discovered that he had been banned... presumably for being even nastier to other people than he had been to me.

That's nice, dear.  You might well also be a leading expert on 14th Century Portuguese cabinetmaking.  Good for you.  But all this is a strawman argument (with bonus added self-aggrandisement), and I can see through it.  You have COMPLETELY FAILED to address my post: you didn't have the bottle to attack STB when he was here, but now you're happy to gloat on his departure.  This makes you at best unprincipled, and at worst, well yes, a coward.

Go away.

That's nice, dear.  You might well also be a leading expert on 14th Century Portuguese cabinetmaking.  Good for you.  But all this is a strawman argument (with bonus added self-aggrandisement), and I can see through it.  You have COMPLETELY FAILED to address my post: you didn't have the bottle to attack STB when he was here, but now you're happy to gloat on his departure.  This makes you at best unprincipled, and at worst, well yes, a coward.

Go away.

Okay TLD™, you did fish for information on the area I claimed to expert in, so I gave it to you and provided back up info to stop you deriding my claim to be an expert. But I guess there was no way I could win in a debate which was more about bluster and putting me down than anything else.

I think if you fight with bullies, you play into their hands, you give them the conflict they want and they see the pain they seek to inflict. So I didn't fight with the person we are talking about. Instead, I left when I saw it was pointless hanging around.

To put it another way, I don't like receiving or giving insults and abuse. I have lots of things to entertain me in life, so a while ago I walked away from this forum as I was subject to regular abuse from the person who was trolling me and plenty of others.  I think it's very important to consider how ones actions will affect others, but he just wanted to insult and score points, so I walked...

I guess I don't care about things like "scoring points" or "losing face", but I do care about having a pleasant and fun life without any agro. So you can say anything you like about me and it's pretty unlikely I will react further. Indeed if my other posts here get gratuitously nasty responses (as opposed to polite, constructive criticism), I may leave this forum again.

Actually, he did not fish for it, you were busting to tell us.

See: (with bonus added self-aggrandisement)

Nobody can doubt TLD™'s devotion to his friends. And it's not a blind devotion, either. In fact, one of his friends has a very good chance of becoming my new hero.

Lucky him, you may well say!!!

So, on that basis, I am willing to accept immediately any assessment made by TLD™, & consider it further later.

The point is that STB has left and left under his own his own terms. That is, he has left.
This should now be an end to it.

I'm going too; back to the Archeology thread, where it is inarguable that, that, is my proper place.

When you get somebody who repeatedly sock-puppets, is repeatedly banned and then finds themselves on the developer team, well I think that just says it all.

Hi, I'm the sockpuppet and developer, and R44, and trainfreak8495, and about 20 other names... Have we met?

I'm going to be brutally blunt here - I don't have access to the RP source code, or your information or, well, anything. You're prematurely crapping on about me having access to things I should not have access to which is not the case.

I am, however using, or trying to use, RP as a learning experience. That is insanely difficult when I am not being replied to by the developer guy himself when I need help with things that he has developed, such as the Railpage API - Which, for the record is all I have access to. I can only write things to POST to a frontend that does backend tasks.

Now, I deserve everything I get from you lot, providing it is well deserved. Making assumptions is simply something that I will not, and refuse to stand for.

I'm not the type to go and sneer at peoples information in phpMyAdmin, because I can. Last time I did that was because I had to for another site I happen to be developing. I don't just develop here and it is really not up to you to make rediculous assumptions about my reasoning.

I am here, developing infrastructure, so that I can continue to contribute to the boards, or at the very least, continue to keep in contact with those that I was in contact with previously.

No, I am not an immune member. I have, for the most part, kept my head down since I was put on the team - I have not posted all that much.

I have stated a number of times that I am NOT proud of what happened that day in 2010. I have apologised immensely for it in private and in public.

Anything else you want to beat out of me while you are here? Or not here?

And this whole lot of Arguments is why Railpage is becoming the way it is, No one, and I stress No one wants to come here and look at Pathetic little Arguments, Of who is the Greatest, Just drop it , and continue on like Civilized Human Beings!

Kind Regards

Civilised humans argue from time to time.

Members leave and members join.  Some have chosen to make comments directed at myself personally to which I took exception.  Those matters were dealt with via the moderation system without me posting a single word in the public forums.  Like it or not we are guests in someone's private site here and should abide by the rules of common decency and the clearly-posted house rules.

You don't have to agree with me nor I with you but of such stuff open and informative debate is made.

We have lost many well-placed "big hitters" with valuable detail and informed comment but we also gain a few as we go along.  Most of us are probably able to pick the substance out of the foam in an intelligent manner and without any need to bite back at comments we may not agree with.

You won't find me at Railbastard.  I dropped in briefly and found it wasn't quite my scene.  I have no issue with maintaining social links to friends who have left here and now enjoy that site.  And you won't find me bad-mouthing anyone here either though you might spot the occasional request for substantiation if something is posted which seems miles wide of the mark.  I can play the ball without playing the man.

Hey-ho!  Onwards and upwards.

Civilised humans argue from time to time.

Indeed!- But here, It seems to be more than average

Kind Regards

Hi, I'm the sockpuppet and developer, and R44, and trainfreak8495, and about 20 other names... Have we met?

I'm going to be brutally blunt here - I don't have access to the RP source code, or your information or, well, anything. You're prematurely crapping on about me having access to things I should not have access to which is not the case.

I am, however using, or trying to use, RP as a learning experience. That is insanely difficult when I am not being replied to by the developer guy himself when I need help with things that he has developed, such as the Railpage API - Which, for the record is all I have access to. I can only write things to POST to a frontend that does backend tasks.

Now, I deserve everything I get from you lot, providing it is well deserved. Making assumptions is simply something that I will not, and refuse to stand for.

I'm not the type to go and sneer at peoples information in phpMyAdmin, because I can. Last time I did that was because I had to for another site I happen to be developing. I don't just develop here and it is really not up to you to make rediculous assumptions about my reasoning.

I am here, developing infrastructure, so that I can continue to contribute to the boards, or at the very least, continue to keep in contact with those that I was in contact with previously.

No, I am not an immune member. I have, for the most part, kept my head down since I was put on the team - I have not posted all that much.

I have stated a number of times that I am NOT proud of what happened that day in 2010. I have apologised immensely for it in private and in public.

Anything else you want to beat out of me while you are here? Or not here?

Actually, I am a moderator, and I do have access to information of why people have been banned, and what for.

The fact that you're here is an absolute bloody disgrace. I'll give you this one warning: Pull your damn head in, or I will ban you. I don't care what excuses you try and make. The fact that you are even here now should tell you to lay low, and keep out of the firing line. I find it a direct afront that you'd have the gall to even consider posting in this thread - gloating no less. You made your own bed, now lie in it.

I'll also add that you were sockpuppeting well after 2010, for the record, so you haven't learnt anything it seems.

Nobody can doubt TLD™™'s devotion to his friends. And it's not a blind devotion, either. In fact, one of his friends has a very good chance of becoming my new hero.

Lucky him, you may well say!!!

So, on that basis, I am willing to accept immediately any assessment made by TLD™™, & consider it further later.

The point is that STB has left and left under his own his own terms. That is, he has left.This should now be an end to it.

I'm going too; back to the Archeology thread, where it is inarguable that, that, is my proper place.

I'll agree with that.

Bogong, don't make the mistake of not bothering to engage the enemy, and then hurl insults behind their back when they're gone. It says more about your own lack of character than it does about them. While a few people out there may not lament STB leaving, there is no reason to lay on the bile once he's gone. TLD™ has a very good point - it is cowardly.

If you don't care that he's gone, fair enough. Keep it to yourself.

STB has gone ...Thats a shame.