The Newcastle Rail Line IS to be cut, announced 14 dec 2012

 
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

RE Max Delmege (who is a former developer): Brad Hazzard's office told him that he was too busy and will be on sometime next weekend.
Newcastle Express
This maybe on sometime shortly, tomorrow morning, or the morning after on 2SM and stations that take show.

Edit: He is to talk to Hazardous Hazzard just after 12:30 - but it could just before.

The interview is to be live, and not recorded, and according to 2SM, they will take questions.

Sponsored advertisement

  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Hazzard falsely claimed that 85% of people supporting removing the rail line. That is incorrect.

He also falsely claimed that their has been a LOT of consultation between the passengers and the state government.

He also claimed the rail land won't be sold off (Do I see a flock of pigs flying?)

April last year was a transport forum. 9 out o 10 tables supported keeping the rail line and it's services, and they all clapped. But the report from that meeting is inaccurate, although now slightly changed, but still shows an inaccurate report.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Now that's cause for a celebration, yes, no?

This is not exactly Newcastle rail related, but the "Dr Beechings" of NSW have just stepped down from their roles on I-NSW

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1522283/greiner-broad-step-down-from-adviser-roles/?cs=305
Former Victorian secretary of transport Jim Betts has been appointed appointed as interim chief executive.
Somebody
  NotebookMan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wahroonga NSW
Now that's cause for a celebration, yes, no?

This is not exactly Newcastle rail related, but the "Dr Beechings" of NSW have just stepped down from their roles on I-NSW

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1522283/greiner-broad-step-down-from-adviser-roles/?cs=305
Newcastle Express
Let's hope that the briefings from INSW to premier O'Farrell on the Newcastle issue improve. Greiner and Broad are notable agitators for removing the rail line.
  HMC1989 Chief Commissioner

Location: Behind a desk.
Had a laugh on Friday's NBN news with people complaining about there being no "trains" over the Long Weekend. Better get used to it if a "select" few get their way.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Had a laugh on Friday's NBN news with people complaining about there being no "trains" over the Long Weekend.
HMC1989
They were complaining that trackwork was scheduled with people arriving for major eventS in Newcastle on the weekend for a major event on Tuesday. Extra trains were provided on Tuesday (11 June 2013) between Sydney & Newcastle(1), along with local buses.
Exactly what happened when the Newcastle Show was on, when trackwork was scheduled between Sydney & Dungog/Scone for that same weekend - usually the trackwork is scheduled for the weekend before or after when trackwork usually takes place in March.

While checking the SOR site, I found the statement below.

http://saveourrail.org.au/?p=641
Initially Save Our Rail had very little contact with the incoming Liberal/National Party state government despite attempts to have meetings with the new Premier, Barry O’Farrell and his ministers.

Our only means of conveying our message regarding the future of the Newcastle Rail Line was to attend forums being organised by the planning and transport departments. The people who attended the Long Term Transport  meeting in Newcastle Town Hall in April 2012  well remember that the overwhelming sentiment was to retain and improve the Newcastle Rail Line to Newcastle Station. This was not recorded in the official report of that meeting and despite protests from Save Our Rail and other individuals the record remains inaccurate. . .

We can confirm that this SOR statement is correct about "inaccuracies" (in quotes for a reason) in that report from the meeting.

1. WHAT?!! Extra trains needed between Newcastle & Broadmeadow again???, BUT, BUT, BUT, Hazardous Hazzard & (cough UR cough) Greiner said, . . . .

(Does this look like an "underused" station to you?:

http://youtu.be/DJ4Z3tHP8FE)
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

WAIT A MINUTE NOW!
The pro-rail cutters blame the Newcastle Rail Line on a "so called decline of people in the CBD, and that no one is visiting the CBD? Correct, not correct??

If that is so, then how come the council has just recently installed "High Pedestrian Area", 40 kmh zones?

So, how can you have a "High Pedestrian Area" in a CBD, that is suppose to be almost deserted of people?? Laughing
  abesty1 Chief Commissioner

Location: The CityRail Network
Newcastle Port will be privatised and the rail line will be replaced with light rail:
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1580147/ofarrell-privatises-newcastle-port-in-return-for-light-rail/?cs=303

NEWCASTLE will get light rail in its inner city in return for the Port of Newcastle being handed over to the private sector, the O’Farrell government has announced in its latest budget handed down on Tuesday.
The government will use $340million to replace heavy rail with light rail from Wickham to Newcastle, from the proceeds of a proposed 99-year lease of the Port that Treasurer Mike Baird said could reap about $700million.
The $340million would come on top of the $120million the government has already committed to spending on rail changes in the inner city, including the construction of a transport interchange at Wickham.
And the light rail strip could be the start of a broader system, with $10million to be spent exploring the potential to link the city centre to surrounding suburbs, beaches and broader region.
‘‘This will now go beyond a mere revitalisation: it will effectively be the rebirth of Newcastle as a modern city,’’ Mr Baird said.
The proposal forms the budget’s centrepiece infrastructure announcement.
A scoping study for the port transaction would get underway immediately.
The government is aiming to complete the lease by mid next year.
It follows the recent lease of both Ports Botany and Kembla, which were announced in previous budgets and raised about $4billion net for infrastructure spending.
Overall, Mr Baird has forecast a deficit of $329million in 2013-14, with a return to surplus expected in 2014-15, in a budget he says will ‘‘secure the future for NSW’’.
It confirms the provision of $585million for the rollout of the National Disability Insurance Scheme in the Hunter.
The budget also provides for up to $120million this year for the Resources for Regions program, which is aimed at returning some of the proceeds of mining to affected communities.
About $40million would be allocated to successful applications made before June 11, with $80million available for those who make applications before October.
Singleton and Muswellbrook are among the councils to have already made applications and will need to wait to learn if they will get a share of the money.
Newcastle City Council was also eligible but did not submit an application. It may have another
The budget also delivers more money for the Newcastle justice precinct, with a further $63million for its construction.
The government has also continued its housing acceleration fund, with two Hunter sites included in the initiative this year.
Wastewater network upgrades at Farley and Rutherford will be fast-tracked to help pave the way for the construction of 5300 new homes, and an intersection on the New England Highway at Lochinvar and its water mains will be upgraded to enable 5000 new homes to go ahead.
But the budget is silent on allocations for the remainder of the Hunter Infrastructure and Investment Fund. The fund’s board had made recommendations to the government earlier this year on how to spend the $60 million remaining of the $350 million election commitment.
The budget papers say the government is considering the board’s recommendations.
  mandonov Station Staff

Best of both worlds?
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

I've put it in the news section here: http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1838857.htm#1838857
  a6et Minister for Railways

Best of both worlds?
mandonov
Yes & no.  I see no real reason still for the closure of the Heavy rail line to be now replaced with trams, which in affect will use the same track, could probably use the same O/head & the same stations, will still provide the barrier which so many who want the rail line gone use as an excuse, between Hunter St & the harbour area.

Why not utilise #3 platform as the area for a connection between the trams & HR, certainly the money saved in the rebuild could go a long way towards some form of decent interchange, or even to provide road over or underpasses at Wickham & Civic.  I certainly think that the proposal to extend trams is a good one & will provide for a better transport future for the NCLE area.

Lets see what the closure proponents have to say about this news, as it certainly seems to fly in the face of what has been demanded or maybe its a way of face saving by the government who are loathe to admit they may have been wrong but not enough to back down on the lines closure/replacement.
  korowa Station Master

Location: null
The decision is a lot more "palatable" with the replacement (and eventual extension) of light rail (trams).
Although I'd rather see the money spent on the electrification of the line up to Maitland.
  8041 Junior Train Controller

If they really are going to do this tram then the only sensible thing to do is cut the heavy rail back to Broadmeadow and have the interchange there. With future extensions to the tram, and some of them are no brainers like the uni or Kotara fair, Broadmeadow is perfectly suited to be Newcastles central transport hub.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
I'd still say that it would be better to keep trains from Sydney running into Newcastle. This move seems to be a step back but in line with this governments trend towards light rail. I'd do think that we need more details of the governments plan.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

It's an interesting development.  I'd perhaps suggest that the reason the campaign for cutting the rail line has been so intense and so public as they know that to achieve the developer's probable objectives (access to the corridor for re-development) they were going to need the numbers on the floor of the upper house which they just wern't going to get.

LRT means some of the route can be "re-aligned" on-street, which would allow at least some of the formation to be redeveloped.  This too will probably require an act of parliament, but I imagine the political opposition to this LRT plan will be much less.  If the LRT line were to run up Hunter Street Mall from east of Civic that would make a degree of sense, and still allow redevelopment of the station site.

What is silly IMHO is the maintenance of the interchange at Wickham.  Surely it'd be cheaper and better all round to just buy an extra tram or two and have the rail hub at Broadmeadow?
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

THE WORD MAYBE
Andrew Cornwall after Richard King asked a question, and he said that light rail MAYBE AN OPTION.

And ABC has told us, they are only having certain callers allowed to air "their views" on the radio.
  a6et Minister for Railways

It's an interesting development.  I'd perhaps suggest that the reason the campaign for cutting the rail line has been so intense and so public as they know that to achieve the developer's probable objectives (access to the corridor for re-development) they were going to need the numbers on the floor of the upper house which they just wern't going to get.

LRT means some of the route can be "re-aligned" on-street, which would allow at least some of the formation to be redeveloped.  This too will probably require an act of parliament, but I imagine the political opposition to this LRT plan will be much less.  If the LRT line were to run up Hunter Street Mall from east of Civic that would make a degree of sense, and still allow redevelopment of the station site.

What is silly IMHO is the maintenance of the interchange at Wickham.  Surely it'd be cheaper and better all round to just buy an extra tram or two and have the rail hub at Broadmeadow?
djf01
Cheaper for BMD as the interchange?  I doubt it very much.  

The cost of doing up the long overdue abomination of a station that is BMD to achieve it as anything like a modern standard would be horrendous, where would the tram interchange be located, also how much extra time would be added to a trip into NCLE?

In years gone by, the entry to BMD station was by means of the road bridge on the southern end of the station, a large landing & stairs were there, a bus stop was provided at the top of the stairs along with a pedestrian crossing, easy access for passengers to hop on a bus to many destinations, however without some serious big time work was carried out there & some serious extra money, it would be just as much a nightmare it became as road traffic increased & a real bottleneck created.  The removal helped with traffic flow, but to get a bus from that spot or tram would add quite some time to the overall journey time for many, I am not saying that will be the place to built an interchange but would in the minds of many be the ideal, IF an extension of trams was contemplated, as that road is a pretty direct route from NCLE through to the main John Hunter Hospital, & therefore a very much likely candidate for any extension.

The other aspect in shifting to BMD to consider, & while it may have been mentioned or not is the passengers from the valley end who actually commute into NCLE & the stations along the line from Waratah.  How much extra journey time will a change at BMD add to their daily commute, consider the time of arrival at BMD in the morning would take longer than it does to Hamilton, with the train having departed Hamilton by the time of its arrival at BMD.  I doubt if a commuter would get away with under an hours extra travel per day either, which in the end will make a lot of them reconsider their commuting & go back to driving.  I guess the government would be happy as that justifies the spending of big $$$'s on roads to meet the growing need, & drop money spent on rail owing to declines in patronage.  End & means, Justified?

Wickham can be built a heck of a lot cheaper then what could be seriously done at BMD, but then you have to consider the route of the new tram line, which would certainly provide a huge challenge to get it right.  

Why realign to the Mall area? Again that adds huge to the overall costs of the project & who is going to really save much by being able to get off a tram in the mall instead of the existing station precinct?  actually the bit of a walk will help more than anything.  If the HR was retained & the #3 platform area was used as the interchange for the trams, it could provide a very nice means for the tram to run to Nobby's around to the main beach & then down to the centre via King St.  In the other direction it could readily be integrated into a line along the foreshore as a Latte` tripper.

Actually the best plan for the centre would be to continue Hunter st through the mall as road access & use Scott st for the trams instead, or have the 2 roads as one way & shared with the trams.   Instead of replacing what really is an efficient form of rail transport with another one, it needs to be used for the future, realistically the use of Scott st as an interchange for trams that would be centred along the area & out along Darby St to the beaches, along with John Hunter would be far better than the existing set up of HR & buses.

The question of interest though would be.  How many of those people who may benefit from trams to the new areas that I mention, as well as those that are in the sort of thoughts of the government be happy with the noise of construction & then the trams running down their more narrow streets be?  Then ask how many of those same people are actually proponents of the desire/demand to have the existing line closed?
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

From the article in the Maitland Mercury in the Budget 2013 in the NSW news section from the treasurer.

"He said $10 million would be allocated to look at the potential for a light rail network that linked the CBD with Newcastle’s suburbs and beaches as well as the broader Hunter region."
  a6et Minister for Railways

From the article in the Maitland Mercury in the Budget 2013 in the NSW news section from the treasurer.

"He said $10 million would be allocated to look at the potential for a light rail network that linked the CBD with Newcastle’s suburbs and beaches as well as the broader Hunter region."
Newcastle Express

Another $10m, for another study.  Sort of surprising isn't it?  As an old saying goes, when the common person talks about money, its usually in the small amounts that they need to make their life go round which is usually in the few dollars mark.  When politicians talk about money, its in the millions of $$'s & very much throw away.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Cheaper for BMD as the interchange?  I doubt it very much.  
a6et

In NSW?  I agree, *nothing can be done cheaper!

where would the tram interchange be located
a6et

Down side car park.


, also how much extra time would be added to a trip into NCLE?
a6et

10-15 min.  5min more than if the interchange was at Wickham.


The other aspect in shifting to BMD to consider, & while it may have been mentioned or not is the passengers from the valley end who actually commute into NCLE & the stations along the line from Waratah.  How much extra journey time will a change at BMD add to their daily commute, consider the time of arrival at BMD in the morning would take longer than it does to Hamilton, with the train having departed Hamilton by the time of its arrival at BMD.  I doubt if a commuter would get away with under an hours extra travel per day either, which in the end will make a lot of them reconsider their commuting & go back to driving.  I guess the government would be happy as that justifies the spending of big $$$'s on roads to meet the growing need, & drop money spent on rail owing to declines in patronage.  End & means, Justified?
a6et

I think this policy is getting nuttier and nuttier as it evolves.  The gvt is throwing more and more money at a non-problem to appease the objections.


Why realign to the Mall area?
a6et

So the station area can be turned into condos.

As I see it, the bottom line is the (successful) lobbying is about redeveloping the rail corridor, something the government can't deliver.  ATN they are just digging themselves a deeper and deeper hole.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I should spell out a bit better how I think a Broadmeadow LRT might work.

NCL HR local services would be the 6 HCRs shuttling Morriset-Broadmeadow-Maitland witha peak frequency of 30min.  At Broadmeadow all of these trains would use platform 1 (as would CL probably).  There would be some sort of "Flyer" service Broadmeadow-Sydney arriving platform 2 & departing platform 3.  

LRT would operate single track from the junction single track on what is currently the Main UP.  Local HR runs single track on what is currently the main DOWN (logical changes needed for the interlocking, AFAIK no hardware changes.

I don't for one second suggest this offers anyone a superior service, but it'd definitely be cheaper to operate the HR division this way, and saving spending the mega bugs on a new interchange station.

Of course the cheapest thing to do - and the option that delivers the best PT service is to do SFA.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

SFA has always been the better option.
The existing rail system works just as it was intended to.
People arrive and people depart on clean and efficient trains that run close to timetables.
Take it away and you have an overloaded bus system.
Try and replace it with light rail and all you have is alot of money wasted on new infrastructure such as platforms, interchanges and rolling stock to get the same result, except that the passengers had to change trains and the new train (light rail) travels slower resulting in longer travel times (only a few minutes but it is still wasted time).
The final result if all this was to happen - some pedestrians would be able to access the foreshore at different locations to now (big whoop)
I 100% believe that the light rail will never happen either as they won't be able to find the funds to do all that will be necesary to implement it.
Just more hot wind blowing from the nether regions of our pollies.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I should spell out a bit better how I think a Broadmeadow LRT might work.

NCL HR local services would be the 6 HCRs shuttling Morriset-Broadmeadow-Maitland witha peak frequency of 30min.  At Broadmeadow all of these trains would use platform 1 (as would CL probably).  There would be some sort of "Flyer" service Broadmeadow-Sydney arriving platform 2 & departing platform 3.  

LRT would operate single track from the junction single track on what is currently the Main UP.  Local HR runs single track on what is currently the main DOWN (logical changes needed for the interlocking, AFAIK no hardware changes.

I don't for one second suggest this offers anyone a superior service, but it'd definitely be cheaper to operate the HR division this way, and saving spending the mega bugs on a new interchange station.

Of course the cheapest thing to do - and the option that delivers the best PT service is to do SFA.
djf01
Somewhere in that mix is the problem of changing platforms & the current layout at BMD is what I was referring to in my previous post, the layout & charm is without doubt one of the greatest attractions for passengers using the platforms, once used never forgotten.

Best option would be to pull out #1 platform & push 2 & 3 towards the ocean.  Or better still your last sentence & best option rings true, thus get all the closure desirers & march them along the ROW from Wickham - NCLE & then push them into the ocean.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Whats in Newcastle city to go to? Nothing justifies spending that kind of money.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Whats in Newcastle city to go to? Nothing justifies spending that kind of money.
Junction box
The truth is that they are not going to spend that kind of money.
The light rail plan is the honey being fed to the public to make the sale of the Port more palatable.
By saying they will privatise the port and then spend the money on the rail line will get it approved, but then the light rail won't happen probably due to "other unforeseen issues".
It's all lies
Tim Owen was lying through his hat for 2 weeks up to the budget announcement.
He was repeatedly asked by the media if the port was going to be sold or privatised.
His answer "I'm not privvy to that kind of information as the minister does not inform me of these descisions"
As soon as he said that the first time I knew the port was sold.
Of course he is privvy to that information - he is the Member for Newcastle.
if the State Government was not going to sell the port, then Tim Owen would have been spruking for the last 2 weeks that the government had no intention of selling the port, instead he just said no one had told what they were doing.
Here we go again with a government selling off public assets, in this case the worlds biggest coal port, and very soon, the power industry.
They can't manage any of their finances so they have to start having fire sales with our assets to get cash together.
It's like having your neighbour pay all his debts by selling your house.
A light rail option from Wickham is a joke anyway.
If it were to ever eventuate it needs to be back before Hamilton on enough land to actually fit the infrastructure on.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: a6et, NotebookMan, wurx

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.