Keep your hands and arms inside the carriage.

 
  frezno Junior Train Controller

[edit]

Thread split from the Steamrail Snow Train 22-6-2013
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1840510.htm#1840510

-while based on the sighting of people's heads and arms outside the carriage of a minline train, it is a topic in itself and need not take that thread off topic.

David Head,Mod.
[/edit]


I just want to say that I find absolutely appalling the fact that nearly every window has kids/adults and clearly mentally challenged people flailing their arms and heads out of the windows. I mean seriously, what the hell are these people thinking? Not only should you never place your limbs outside of a moving vehicle, but a train? Seriously?! Do these people have no idea how dangerous that is?

Why don't the volunteers/staff on board do anything about it? An announcement along the lines of: "Kindly get your arms back inside this train or you are free to get off and walk the rest of the way. Oh, and don't expect a refund." would do nicely.

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I think that a polite, " Please keep your arms inside the carriage; you may injure yourself on a pole or tree", is a far better idea than frezno's crude attempt to batter people into submission.

Try the carrot; it usually works better than the stick.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
"Please keep your arms inside the carriage; you may injure yourself on a pole or tree"
Valvegear
On a SDSR training run (members only) a few years ago I had to feign an injury due to being whacked in the head by a tree after sticking my head out of the window. A carriage attendant had to "treat" the "injury". At least I didn't have to be the heart attack "victim" and submit to CPR... Wink
  VBAndy Chief Commissioner

Agreed, Valvegear. Friendly customer service will probably trump abrupt arsery every time.
  northbritish Chief Train Controller

I just want to say that I find absolutely appalling the fact that nearly every window has kids/adults and clearly mentally challenged people flailing their arms and heads out of the windows. I mean seriously, what the hell are these people thinking? Not only should you never place your limbs outside of a moving vehicle, but a train? Seriously?! Do these people have no idea how dangerous that is?

Why don't the volunteers/staff on board do anything about it? An announcement along the lines of: "Kindly get your arms back inside this train or you are free to get off and walk the rest of the way. Oh, and don't expect a refund." would do nicely.
frezno
You are joking here I take it?
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
You are joking here I take it?
northbritish

I hope he is but I get the feeling that he's being serious. Fingers crossed that he never goes for a ride on Puffing Billy!

Any reports on how the side trips to the snow, wineries, and so on went?

jakar
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
While it is expected and encouraged at Puffing Billy, putting your head out of a carriage on the mainline is dangerous. I would put down those people or refer to them as others might but it is a valid safety point, just as spectators on the tracks or too close as well. While I might not agree  on the how, it is a problem to educate people on such matters.

Regards,
David Head
  frezno Junior Train Controller

Am I joking?
Really?

Do you find amputation funny because I sure as hell don't.

I would be really interested to hear why you think I would be joking about something so serious concerning peoples safety. You sound exactly like one of these tools I'm talking about. Who my fellow taxpayers and I would then spend the rest of our lives funding their pension because they cant work due to their own stupidity.
Yeah, sounds like a real hoot. So funny I should do stand up, right?

Puffing Billy is one thing, it's in the middle of nowhere, the worst you'll probably get is a scratch from a tree fern. But to allow this behavior on a train, on a main line, passing trains going 80/115/160km/h is disgusting.

I understand this is a heritage train, it's not as safe as the trains we have today. But we need to cater for the lower common denominator. I hope you realise it will only take one highly intelligent being to lose their arm/hand/head and the whole concept of heritage trains like this may be revised.
Can these mostly volunteer run organizations really afford a lawsuit?

And incase you were still wondering, I can assure you sir, I am most certainly NOT joking.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Good point. However the same argument applies as it does to Puffing Billy. Through the 1960s and 1970s I travelled on scores of fan trips (and there were a lot more that I didn't travel on) where everybody hung out the windows, or stood at open doorways. I had some memorable trips returning to Melbourne at night standing at the open door of a car watching the loco ahead.

Just as at Puffing BIlly the question is: how many passengers were injured while leaning out of the train?  The answer: none.

f course back then if anybody did get hurt it would have been their own fault, and nothing further would have happened. These days if somebody trips over their own shoelace on a station platform, somebody gets sued. I am firmly of the opinion that you are much more likely to be injured walking or driving from home to the station than you are leaning out of an open window - but nobody has banned driving or walking!
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I haven't disputed frezno's concerns . . . . just his manner and methods.
  inter Train Controller

Location: Shrinking wheels
I vividly remember as a five or six year old standing in an open doorway(with dad beside me) on an R class hauled fan trip travelling at probably 70 miles an hour. And climbing out of carriages without steps for run past photostops. I'm now mid forties and still here. Maybe the fun police need to pull THEIR heads in.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I haven't disputed frezno's concerns . . . . just his manner and methods.
Valvegear
Okay,

Tho the issue. PBR have made their clearances to cater for this  hanging out the window, which has become traditional for riding the railway.

But on the mainline - it's different. Poles, signals staunchions etc are close. And there is nothing to stop them except for common sense and education. At Railpage we mostly all know why it is so. The general public are, well very general. Especially today.  Rather than blame others, how do we tell the public riding the trainwhat not to do - as often the case many have been to PBR -a steam train to have fun - and think the steatrain they ride elsewhere is  the same.

We know otherwise.

Any opinions or info the tourist railways on this matter?

Regards,
David Head

PS frezno's post prompted me to split it as i thought it was a interesting topic in it's own right - thanks.
  VBAndy Chief Commissioner

I'll go with the approach of over 100 years of E and W car operation in Victoria with open windows...not one decapitation. Can't speak for the likes of Steamrail, but in my time as a TO elsewhere, we'd always add the disclaimer to the safety speech given to customers about using caution when looking out the window and preferably not at all in the metro area.

As a side note, keep in mind people at management levels read this...could get needlessly expensive for preservation groups if this conversation keeps up!
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Frenzo I can assure you that I don't find amputations funny (although my comment about Puffing Billy was said tongue in cheek), however I do strongly object to the "wrap everyone in cotton wool to protect them from anything and everything" attitude that yourself and an increasingly larger proportion of society seem to have these days. Personal responsibility has been eroded as "its always someone else's fault". I do wonder if you were around in the not too distant past when these (and the majority of other) carriages were in regular operation where open windows and doors were the norm? People used to stick heads and arms out the windows all the time and very few people, if any, got hurt or killed and everyone got on with life just fine. Why is it now "disgusting", to quote you, that it happens in 2013?

Something else that may make your hair go grey, I was only reminiscing with someone the other day about a time that we were on a suburban tour and had to disembark from the train for a photostop (remember those everyone?) climbing down the steps on the side of the carriage. Big deal you say? Well the best part about it was the train happened to stop on the goods lines that lead to Kensington station (my brain has failed me and can't remember the exact junction/location name) right on top of the flyover! There was absolutely nothing stopping you from falling off the edge onto the live overhead or the tracks below, yet everyone, adults and kids managed quite fine!

I don't want to see people get hurt but it constantly amazes me what a soft and over protective society we've become.

jakar
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I think VBAndy your reply indicates the method and what it done. Satisfies me.  DVR use our PA to annouce the safety message before the train departs. I know other miniature railway also have this in mind.

Regards,
David Head
  randomnarwhal Locomotive Driver

While on the Snow Train, our friendly carriage guard did in fact warn us of the dangers of sticking various body parts out of the windows. Apparently some chose to ignore this warning. So you can't take this out on the volunteers not doing anything, because it is some of the passengers who have chosen to.
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
I think this has gone far enough. Various parties have made their comments so thread locked.

Frezno, if you do have concerns, I suggest you approach the group directly. Making clearly exaggerated claims about "mentally challenged" people does little for your credibility.

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