Return of the redhens and belair depot closure

 
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Brian

Like you I have travelled by steam train through the hills and watched as the loco took water at Blackwood.  At no time on my trips or motorcades did they use a siding leading off the down main at Blackwood; the reason it wasn't there. My memory is backed up by the "Pull Diagram" published as a topic in this forum a few months ago. ( I have just checked and the diagram is no longer accessible; maybe SAR523 could resurrect it.)

The water column Justapax refers to was against the down main at the down end of the platform and locos did not have to leave the train to use it.

A major shunt I did see at Blackwood occurred when 526 had to push a failed 300 set from somewhere near Eden hills to Blackwood. 526 made a good job of it with a trailing load of 6 centenary cars on a school holiday special to Bridgewater. 526 pushed the 300s to the down platform where the 300s pax detrained. the 300s were then pushed out along the down main and the train left in the down platform while 526 then drew the 300s back into the back platform (road 3). 526 then ran around the 300s along the up main before crossing back to the down main to the return to the train and to take a much need drink.

With the train and the 300s the load would have been 300 tons.

I didn't get that out of a book or any other memories as Brian has implied.Evil or Very Mad

Ian

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  Top Cat Assistant Commissioner

Location: Under Hilton Bridge
Ahhhh. The School special where it pushed a Redhen set....I was a "car captain" on that very train....no siding with a facing point on the down main at Blackwood....8)
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Ahhhh. The School special where it pushed a Redhen set....I was a "car captain" on that very train....no siding with a facing point on the down main at Blackwood....8)
Top Cat

QED

Ian
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
QED

Ian
steam4ian
The siding IS the down main slightly realigned at its outer end.    There was some realignment at the southern end of Blackwood and a cross over was added.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Neil.

The present siding is as you suggested.

There was in days of yore, before my time of recollection, a siding which ran off the down main from a turnout which was at the down end of the down platform. The siding ran parallel to one face of the water tank and there was a standpipe from the side of the water tank. I can recall that the formation for this siding could be discerned but there were no visible rails nor connection to the main line.

Following the 1929 duplication trains could take water on the down main. The signalling arrangements at Blackwood allowed following down movements to overtake a train taking water. The last main line watering point for up movements was Aldgate.

The last steam trip I did through the Hills was just prior to the SG conversion. The down BG track was being rebuilt near Wittunga and we ran bang road from Eden Hills to Blackwood. The loco 621 didn't take water at Blackwood, although they usually did, because we went through on the up road before crossing back the down road on the cross over at the down end of the yard.

Fun memories.

Ian
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Neil.

The present siding is as you suggested.  ...
steam4ian
Thanks Ian; I should have been more specific.

There was a bit of tweaking the layout to connect the up main through the platform to the (old) down main which was obvious at the time, but the signs have faded over the last 20 years!

The complete rebuild of a few years ago helped in the obliteration, too.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Brian

Like you I have travelled by steam train through the hills and watched as the loco took water at Blackwood.  At no time on my trips or motorcades did they use a siding leading off the down main at Blackwood; the reason it wasn't there.
steam4ian
I agree that the loco watering during the Steamranger era was from the water column alongside the down line, as it was for many years prior to that. It is quite likely that the siding track had by then been pulled up but its former presence there, indicated by the above ground appurtenances, was still obvious. WHEN it was removed is another matter. I took a keen interest (as I still do) in observing the passing trackside scenery on every trip I took, looking out for such things as the cutting where the old viaduct line was joined by the new double track route, the brickworks and quarry sidings – this with the loading hoppers still in use – long gone signal boxes and many other things that most of you have only read about. These were often viewed from the tool box opposite the railcar driver, affording a view of the track ahead. This once saved my and other passengers' lives when, by a chance glance during a conversation with the driver while we were stationary, I observed signals doing what they should never have done on double track – going from green to amber to red. This galvanized him into the instant action that greatly lessened the impact. Even now, I look out of the window for at least 90% of the time I spend on public transport (including interstate journeys) because I am interested to observe and draw conclusions about any changes that may have occurred since my last passage. I still think that the Blackwood siding was well and truly visible well into my adult life. With that, we will have to agree to differ – I do appreciate your many valuable contributions to this group even if I sometimes demur.

Regards,

Brian.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Brian

Like you I have travelled by steam train through the hills and watched as the loco took water at Blackwood.  At no time on my trips or motorcades did they use a siding leading off the down main at Blackwood; the reason it wasn't there. My memory is backed up by the "Pull Diagram" published as a topic in this forum a few months ago. ( I have just checked and the diagram is no longer accessible; maybe SAR523 could resurrect it.)

The water column Justapax refers to was against the down main at the down end of the platform and locos did not have to leave the train to use it.

A major shunt I did see at Blackwood occurred when 526 had to push a failed 300 set from somewhere near Eden hills to Blackwood. 526 made a good job of it with a trailing load of 6 centenary cars on a school holiday special to Bridgewater. 526 pushed the 300s to the down platform where the 300s pax detrained. the 300s were then pushed out along the down main and the train left in the down platform while 526 then drew the 300s back into the back platform (road 3). 526 then ran around the 300s along the up main before crossing back to the down main to the return to the train and to take a much need drink.

With the train and the 300s the load would have been 300 tons.

I didn't get that out of a book or any other memories as Brian has implied.Evil or Very Mad

Ian
steam4ian

The "special" was intended to be the "last train to Victor" in October or November 1969 back in the days when the Victor line was mooted for closing and it could have happened literally any moment. The Redhens had failed just beyond Lynton and as I recall the special was intended to run express to Victor or at least Strathalbyn. It was a very exhilarating ride to make up the time. We pulled into the down track and stabled there while 526 shunted the cars back into the passing siding while a Bridgewater or Belair train came through on the Up road. 526 then took water and we left. Yes I was on it. The slipping through Eden Hills was very violent and we thought we would not make it. I did see a picture of a very smoky Red Hen from a motorcader later

Cheers

Trevor
  SAR523 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Chicago, IL
I can't work out why my previous Flickr post no longer works but I can confirm there is no siding indicated on Blackwood's down main in the Signals and Switches diagram I have dated 9-12-62.  Even the goods lead had been removed; this lead was present on an earlier diagram which also did not inidicate a siding off of the down main.

The latest diagram with said down main siding predates the duplication of the mains.

While I'm fiddling about all of these diagrams can be found in the "Blackwood - A station to model" article in the "Modelling the Railways of South Australia" notes.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

As I was going up the stair
I saw a man who wasn't there
I saw that man again to day
I wish that man would go away.      A A Milne

As a well meant tribute to the discussion between myself and Brian (526)



As I was going up the hills

I saw a siding which wasn't there.
I saw that siding again today.
I wish that siding would go away.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
why hasn't all the stations on the ARTCorp side of the belair rail corridor been demolished (hawthorn, clapham, lynton, coromandel, glenalta and pinera)?

i understand millswood, unley park, torrens park and eden hills have been demolished, millswood, torrens park and eden hills within the last 6 years and that belair will not be as that platform is heritage listed. those 6 remaining ones are in terrible condition with crumbled platforms, graffiti and overgrown vegetation possibly worse than the 3 transadelaide side disused stations!
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
why hasn't all the stations on the ARTCorp side of the belair rail corridor been demolished (hawthorn, clapham, lynton, coromandel, glenalta and pinera)?

i understand millswood, unley park, torrens park and eden hills have been demolished, millswood, torrens park and eden hills within the last 6 years and that belair will not be as that platform is heritage listed.
"Heath Loxton"


In a nutshell Heath, the answer is cost.
Why spend dollars demolishing when other parts of their network are crying out for improvements.
You have to understand that there is no mythical bottomless pit of money to pay for all these little jobs to be done. (And yes it does cost money to do)
Someone has to pay for it, and quite frankly, why waste the money when there is NO finacial gain to be acheived?
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
why hasn't all the stations on the ARTCorp side of the belair rail corridor been demolished (hawthorn, clapham, lynton, coromandel, glenalta and pinera)?

i understand millswood, unley park, torrens park and eden hills have been demolished, millswood, torrens park and eden hills within the last 6 years and that belair will not be as that platform is heritage listed. those 6 remaining ones are in terrible condition with crumbled platforms, graffiti and overgrown vegetation possibly worse than the 3 transadelaide side disused stations!
Heath Loxton
The platforms that have been demolished on the ARTC side have mostly been for clearance reasons. Either freight trains were too close to the platform edge, or the clearance between the ARTC and passenger tracks didn't meet current safety standards.
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
The platforms that have been demolished on the ARTC side have mostly been for clearance reasons. Either freight trains were too close to the platform edge, or the clearance between the ARTC and passenger tracks didn't meet current safety standards.
fabricator
As I mentioned in another thread a while back, in 2005 a PN freight train sideswiped 3107/3108 at Eden Hills station after some of the load had shifted.  The resulting investigation found the tracks were too close together.  Not by much - only about 14cm - and it probably would not have greatly changed things in that instance since the load had also hit trackside infrastructure in other places.  

With a choice of moving the BG line, requiring expensive alteration of the in-use passenger platform, or moving the SG line and just demolishing an unused platform the result is obvious.  I daresay similar discrepancies were found elsewhere.

Link to ATSB report...

Richard.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.

As I was going up the hills
I saw a siding which wasn't there.
I saw that siding again today.
I wish that siding would go away.
steam4ian
It's very sad that those who were not there
Know better than I just what I saw
But while it may seem quite a bore
To insist that in those days of yore
There was something there, it isn't fair
To rely alone on recorded lore
Which may be true but incomplete
So that to know what was is an impossible feat.

Gentlemen, I travelled that line daily, often with a driver's eye view of the track ahead, in the late 40s. If any one of you also did that, then let him speak. Otherwise the fact that records from the 60s show that the spur had been removed fail to account for a ten year gap when the removal could have occurred. I specifically said that in the Steamranger era the above ground remnants could have given the impression that the spur still existed. I could be wrong in this as in anything else that I write, but my interest in all aspects of rail has caused me to look out for that spur and many other points of interest every time I have passed over that line. I have a tertiary trained historian's and geographer's interest in my surroundings and am always prepared to change my mind when presented with new and compelling evidence. When you provide an incontrovertible fact (date of removal, as against the present lack of such evidence so far) I will freely acknowledge that I have been wrong.

In the meantime this, and many other discussions on this forum, remind me of the old Jain/Hindu/Buddhist parable of the blind men and the elephant. Each insisted that he alone knew what an elephant looks like, based on his own partial experience, and all had very different impressions. As the Blessed Buddha said:

O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim          
For preacher and monk the honored name!          
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.          
Such folk see only one side of a thing.

Cheers, and definitely no hard feelings,

Brian (SAR526).
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It's very sad that those who were not there
Know better than I just what I saw
But while it may seem quite a bore
To insist that in those days of yore
There was something there, it isn't fair
To rely alone on recorded lore
Which may be true but incomplete
So that to know what was is an impossible feat.

Gentlemen, I travelled that line daily, often with a driver's eye view of the track ahead, in the late 40s. If any one of you also did that, then let him speak. Otherwise the fact that records from the 60s show that the spur had been removed fail to account for a ten year gap when the removal could have occurred. I specifically said that in the Steamranger era the above ground remnants could have given the impression that the spur still existed. I could be wrong in this as in anything else that I write, but my interest in all aspects of rail has caused me to look out for that spur and many other points of interest every time I have passed over that line. I have a tertiary trained historian's and geographer's interest in my surroundings and am always prepared to change my mind when presented with new and compelling evidence. When you provide an incontrovertible fact (date of removal, as against the present lack of such evidence so far) I will freely acknowledge that I have been wrong.

In the meantime this, and many other discussions on this forum, remind me of the old Jain/Hindu/Buddhist parable of the blind men and the elephant. Each insisted that he alone knew what an elephant looks like, based on his own partial experience, and all had very different impressions. As the Blessed Buddha said:

O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim          
For preacher and monk the honored name!          
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.          
Such folk see only one side of a thing.

Cheers, and definitely no hard feelings,

Brian (SAR526).


SAR526
Laughing Luv it!

Ian
  85trainfan Train Controller

Location: If only I Knew, that would make 2 of us :)
Re- Hashing and oldish thread, But
Passing by the Belair Railway station this morning and noticed a lot of cars  (5 or so) around the station. When i swung around to have a look I noticed that the Depot was nearly full. 7 Railcars were stabled there. 2 x 3100, a 2 car 3000 set and a single 3000.
Are drivers signing on there again? or is the depot just being used to store surplus cars while the Noarlunga lines is out of action?

And before anyone asks , no empty cars went in there this morning, all empty Down movements returned on the Up as per the timetable
  MatthewH Locomotive Driver

Its to do with the electrification works, the line between Adelaide and Mitcham is closed after about 10.30 pm until 5.30am every night, and also for the entire weekend. Train run between Mitcham and Belair, with Bus subs being used between Adelaide and Mitcham.
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
The first two Redhen trips went without incident, but the one due to leave Adelaide at 12:30pm was delayed by about 54 minutes due to a signal fault in Adelaide yard. Grange, OH & GC services were affected.

Despite the delay, I was very happy to catch a Redhen to town. Smile

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