Wheel chair users

 
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

On another thread this was posted

"is the clearest way possible to say f**k you wheelchair users" with respect to ramp access to stations.

A considerable amount of money and effort is being expended to make the PT system wheeled vehicle friendly. Trains will have to be delayed while drivers deploy ramps for personal wheeled transport.

I suggest the whole system would be better off if a specialised taxi bus service was implemented for those who due to disability are limited to wheeled mobility or can't use stairs.
These taxi buses would have to be able to carry the immediate associates of the wheeled person so as not to split up families and legitimate groups.
Fares would be the equivalent PT fare for all passengers.

Sometimes there just has to be DISCRIMINATION, nature and bad luck have already done that.
If you have bad eyesight you can't drive, we accept that discrimination.

At least if there is discrimination let us make it positive yet without limiting the convenience of the greater public.

I consider the specialised taxi buses would achieve that.

Ian

Sponsored advertisement

  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
On another thread this was posted

"is the clearest way possible to say f**k you wheelchair users" with respect to ramp access to stations.

A considerable amount of money and effort is being expended to make the PT system wheeled vehicle friendly. Trains will have to be delayed while drivers deploy ramps for personal wheeled transport.

I suggest the whole system would be better off if a specialised taxi bus service was implemented for those who due to disability are limited to wheeled mobility or can't use stairs.
These taxi buses would have to be able to carry the immediate associates of the wheeled person so as not to split up families and legitimate groups.
Fares would be the equivalent PT fare for all passengers.

Sometimes there just has to be DISCRIMINATION, nature and bad luck have already done that.
If you have bad eyesight you can't drive, we accept that discrimination.

At least if there is discrimination let us make it positive yet without limiting the convenience of the greater public.

I consider the specialised taxi buses would achieve that.

Ian
steam4ian
In Sydney, taxis equipped to take wheelchairs, are reluctant to take wheelchair passengers because they are less profitable than taking normal passengers. Amongst other reasons, it is further to travel empty on average to pick up a wheelchair pax.

A solution might be to pay the taxi for the time and distance wasted going from the place they are when called to the place where the wheel chair is.

There is of course "no such thing as a free meal."

This payment for empty-travel would of course be easy to rort, like the disabled parking stickers.

An item in the DailyTele said that people with among  other things dirty numberplates evade speed camera fines, because the numberplates cannot be read. Another rort if you make your numberplates unreadable deliberately. Do police ever check for unreadable numberplates when they do say breathtests?
  yoyoman Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
What a disgraceful attitude towards others who aren't are lucky as you - you should hang you head in shame and show some compassion for those who are not as fortunate.  Try reading the Executive summary of this document - http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/05_2012/nds_report.pdf - in particular the section on Social exclusion and discrimination, and understand that this kind of attitude has made people with disability feel marginalised, segregated and excluded from the wider society.  Sometimes public tranport is more than just public transport.  It may not be to you but to someone else it could mean a whole lot more than you can imagine.

I understand that your comments are mainly meant as a way to increase the efficiency of rail services however people need to take a step back at times and understand it from a different perspective rather than just on how silly it is that we have to wait an extra 2 minutes because the driver needs to provide assistance to another person.

I could go on but these types of posts make me quite angry and sad about some general attitudes in todays society.  I'm not one for applauding to government but credit where credit is due - there appears to have been alot of thought and expense gone into the design and implementation of access to platforms and railcars with the Seaford line extention and new/upgraded stations during the rebuild of the Noarlunga line.

As for the ramps at Marion station - I would assume(?) the design of the ramps would have to conform to a standard designed for disabled persons with regard to maximum gradients, minimum widths etc?  I have no idea what those standards are or would likely be but I would be surpised if infrastructure was not designed to meet these standards.  Or is that the point of the other persons comment that the ramp is too steep etc?
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

As for the ramps at Marion station - I would assume(?) the design of the ramps would have to conform to a standard designed for disabled persons with regard to maximum gradients, minimum widths etc?  I have no idea what those standards are or would likely be but I would be surpised if infrastructure was not designed to meet these standards.  Or is that the point of the other persons comment that the ramp is too steep etc?
yoyoman
I made the original post quoted, and I'm happy to elaborate.

You are right that there are standards regulating the gradients of ramps, and the distance between level landings where a person can stop and rest. The maximum gradient is 1 in 14 (close enough to 7%), the maximum uninterrupted ramp length is 9 metres (can be up to 15 metres for shallower gradients) and the landings must be a minimum of 1.2 metres long. That is why new or refurbished station platforms in Adelaide now have flatter and longer ramps at the ends with usually at least two landings along a ramp that links platform height to a foot crossing.

However, just because a ramp meets the bare minimum standards doesn't mean that it is actually a good facility for people who have impaired mobility or use a mobility aid. A person who has no trouble walking for hundreds of metres without stopping or feeling exhausted will not find any problem with the length or elevation gain associated with the proposed ramps associated with the underpass, however this is very different for a person who can only walk short distances with great effort (specifically the extra ~160 metres) or a person in a wheelchair who needs to propel themselves up a ramp 4-5 times as tall as the current ramp between the level crossing and the platform.

In addition to having a far longer run up to the platform when arriving at the station, with an underpass a wheelchair user would be forced to push up a ramp on the way out of the station where previously they could roll down to the level crossing. During wet weather, underpass ramps become slimy and slippery, and people using a manual wheelchair have to get that stuff on their hands as they push up the ramp.

You or I would quite rightly complain if a facility we used had its access route changed to use six flights of stairs instead of one, and if we were forced to get our hands covered with stormwater and urine just to get there. People using mobility aids have the right to exactly the same level of dignity as the rest of us in that respect.

My guess is that nobody who actually uses a manual wheelchair on a regular basis was even asked for their views on this design. And there's the problem - railway stations are significant community facilities, so much so that they are prominently displayed in electronic mapping displays above all other community facilities, and therefore should be readily accessible to all, with nobody forced to get stormwater or urine on their hands just to catch a train.
  yoyoman Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Thanks for the information regarding the design gradients justapassenger.  I'm not a fan of the subway style system having had an unfriendly encounter at Warradale station when I was around 11-14 years old (back in the 80's) and having used the old Oaklands tunnels in the years before that I'm familiar with the some of the 'interesting' smells.  Overall not a pleasant experience so I can understand and personally prefer a more open and above ground solution if possible.

I have no experience with understanding though what constitutes a suitable gradient for a person in a wheelchair or otherwise disabled.  If they are going by guidelines supplied by an external agency I'd be interested to see what they are and how they came about those guidelines etc.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Australian Standard 1428.1

If you get the Disability Discrimination Act involved there may be other requirements as well, but as far as I know the standard is intended to be the application of the DDA, not the other way around.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Contrary to the belief of some I raised this question because I care for the whole community not just a sectional group.

If I didn't care I would say "Let them walk or stay at home".

Because I care I want to find a better way to meet the transport needs of the "disabled" and the public at large.

Unfortunately a disability (is this the right word in 2013?) does create a point of distinction with those who have full use of their motive faculties. Life sucks and this sucks too.

Many of us are not Olympic athletes, not just because we grow fat behinds sitting at the computer but because of the alignment of our abilities. This sucks, we don't get a gold medal. Equally we are not qualified to enter the Paralympics, that sucks too and we don't get a gold medal.

There is a whole range of employment not available to persons with varying levels of physical mental and emotional deficiency, we accept this and it is even protected by legislation. If you are Red/Green colour blind you can't get a ticket to drive trains, that's discrimination!

What is better for those whose physical challenges generate transport difficulties?

Compromised (and vandalised) solutions associated with public transport or specialised transport at call?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
What happened to those special raised segments they were building at railway platforms in SA?  I recall Woodville has one from a recent visit.  The train pulls up in the exact right spot and the platform directly meets the sill of the train so it saves the driver having to get out and unload the ramp.

Wheelchair access to the P/T network won't happen by 2020 when it's supposed to - not full access anyway.  There simply isn't the money.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Having an electric mobility scooter and having been unable to use it for other than local travel ever since my nearby railway closed for electrification, I have a little experience of the needs of people with relatively limited or no walking ability.

I am perfectly happy with level crossing mazes such as the one at the up end of Warradale and the gated one at Oaklands. Yes it requires me to 'Look out for Trains', a sign which used to appear at every country level crossing until wigwags or bells were introduced.  It's not too difficult, and we can go only so far in protecting the foolish and unwary from themselves. It may actually be part of the Darwinian Survival of the Fittest in removing some of the more stupid members of society. Very Happy

More seriously though, the impossibly steep ramps at Goodwood will have to be ameliorated. At Marion, the present overpass with its multiple shallow risers makes for a very long detour for the able bodied before they can catch a train. The provision of an automatically gated level crossing with a secure holding area for those who try to beat the closing of the gate should be all that is necessary. Westminster School authorities should provide marshals to supervise their train catching students before and after school. Schools have done that where necessary for very many years.

The position with electric trains is no different from what it always has been. They may be faster and quieter but there is still only the same ten feet or so to avoid if you want to be safe from being hit.
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
What a disgraceful attitude towards others who aren't are lucky as you - you should hang you head in shame and show some compassion for those who are not as fortunate.  Try reading the Executive summary of this document - http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/05_2012/nds_report.pdf - in particular the section on Social exclusion and discrimination, and understand that this kind of attitude has made people with disability feel marginalised, segregated and excluded from the wider society.  Sometimes public tranport is more than just public transport.  It may not be to you but to someone else it could mean a whole lot more than you can imagine.

I understand that your comments are mainly meant as a way to increase the efficiency of rail services however people need to take a step back at times and understand it from a different perspective rather than just on how silly it is that we have to wait an extra 2 minutes because the driver needs to provide assistance to another person.

I could go on but these types of posts make me quite angry and sad about some general attitudes in todays society.  I'm not one for applauding to government but credit where credit is due - there appears to have been alot of thought and expense gone into the design and implementation of access to platforms and railcars with the Seaford line extention and new/upgraded stations during the rebuild of the Noarlunga line.

As for the ramps at Marion station - I would assume(?) the design of the ramps would have to conform to a standard designed for disabled persons with regard to maximum gradients, minimum widths etc?  I have no idea what those standards are or would likely be but I would be surpised if infrastructure was not designed to meet these standards.  Or is that the point of the other persons comment that the ramp is too steep etc?
yoyoman

I agree with you yoyoman, but I also agree with Ian, you both have valid points, another issue I feel needs addressing is the difference between legitimate wheel chair users and gopher owners and gopher owners who only use one for convenience and because of their own lazy fat butt. I see the need to provide public transport access for all, with and without disabilities, but I have worked in the industry and can tell you the amount of money spent on railcar DDA compliance is mind boggling, too the point I have to question whether it would be cheaper to provide a taxi service purely for those with disabilities, I think Ian has a point here, and before you label me as heartless, I have a sister who is wheelchair bound, she lives no where near a railway line and does quite well with access cabs, the service they provide her is excellent, to the point where I feel I am discriminated on LOL. Did you know that electric wheelchairs can be rescued by the RAA? I am also a public transport user and have seen first hand the antics of some and admired the independance of others.
I will summarise my thoughts with dot points:-
  • Gophers that are getting far too big for train access, a regular on the Gawler line can not negotiate into the wheelchair bay so she spends the trip shuttling back and forth so people can get on and off, great when the train is crowded, I get off at Chidda so I don't know how far she goes.
  • The wheelchair user who told the driver that he was getting off at Islington, prior to his stop he got a phone call and organised to meet someone at Mawson Lakes, driver stops at Islington and comes back to help the W/C user to be told of the change, now this isn't a fault of the W/C user as he had little chance of informing the driver, but it was an extra delay in waiting for the air to build up to depart.
  • The arrogance of some gopher users in what they feel are their extra rights, they have no more right than a regular user once they are on that train.
  • Conversely the arrogance of some public to politely move aside to allow W/C movement, but when a train is crowded this doesn't surprise me. The worst offenders are school kids who dump their bags and butts on the floor in the wheelchair area and haven't the manners to move, I have reported this to the various schools on a number of occasions, I have no respect for private schools, they obviously don't teach manners.
  • The size of gophers can be an issue with the width of the portable access ramps, not helped that some gopher drivers can't drive the damn things, perhaps it is all the shopping bags that some have hanging on them so they can't see their wheels.
  • But I do have to admire the young athletic fella that I have seen travel to Ovingham, probably one of the worst stations for the gap, he just wheel stands his chair onto the train and does the same to get off, no ramps for him, very impressive.

The solution? I don't have one, other than:-
  • The thought that maybe disabled users could be better and cheaper catered for in subsidised access cabs.
  • Perhaps brochures and fliers (and a training session?) to wheelchair and gopher users to educate them of the unseen issues associated with the service they use.
  • A moratorium on the size of gophers allowed on trains.
  • Put more PSA's on trains to help out in peak times.
  • Do gopher drivers (at least some off them) even need to be in a gopher, is it just cheap transport, if so, slug them for the service.


Yoyoman, you make the statement 'silly about losing about a couple of minutes', just get of your hobby horse on that comment, it is more than 'a couple of minutes' anyway, throw a couple of those delays on a longer trip and your train can easily be 6 - 8 minutes late, the problem then is with connecting buses or trains, I have been at Salisbury to pick up family and watched the bus they would normally connect to (if I wasn't there) leave the interchange as the late running train activates the boom gates, they would then have a 30 minute wait, great on a winters night. The private bus companies don't give a damn and leave on their time, in their defence, they have a timetable to keep, if we delayed them how far would the cascading effect go, a few minutes here and there does matter in our hectic world now, especially to the workers.

Wayne
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
ameliorated ???
SAR526
?? I had to look that one up, "to make or become better" (Heinemann Australian Dictionary).
You have a good point about the travel distance along access ramps, they can be a catch 22 for oldies (I am rapidly getting there), don't use a scooter/gopher they are designed for but could really do without the longer walk on old legs when racing (shuffling?) for a train.

Wayne
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I admire any wheelchair user that does not use an electric one you have to be good to get a manual powered one just about anywhere. I knew a girl in a manual wheelchair and asked her once how hard it was to go up the ramp where I work as a volunteer, so she said try it one day. I did I borrowed one of the emergency wheelchairs after doing some TLC on it , and barely made halfway up that ramp there was no level stopping place on it either, she was a lot younger and less physically built than me but she got to the top of that ramp just, but it still beat me. I for one would not like to have to physically push myself up a long ramp even with level sections to have a spell. You need to experience it to actually appreciate it.
  trainznbuses Train Controller

Location: Seacliff Park, SA
Just my 2% of $1 on this one.

I respect the fact that disabled users wish to be treated as equally as possible in this world - After all a physical disability does not mean a mental disability. However the fact is that there are going to be some things that a less able-bodied person person is unable to to do by the very nature of their disability. This is just a fact of life for those people.
Back in the early 90's when this whole DDA thing came to the fore (I was a bus driver with STA/TA at the time) I couldn't help but to think that it would have made more sense for more Access cab vouchers to be made available to wheelchair users as it would be a win-win for everybody concerned - More fares for the taxi driver, Less inconvenience for the drivers and passengers of mass transit (Bus/Rail), The wheelchair passenger gets picked up and dropped off exactly from and to where they need to go, and money could have been saved with not having to provide a fully wheelchair accessible rail and road going fleet.
In my experience the majority of users of wheelchair spaces in buses are prams that don't need to be folded up with the child/ren removed with only an occasional wheelchair/gopher carried.
On the trains I have seen a few wheelchairs but definitely not in huge numbers however I guess the rolling stock itself does lend itself fairly nicely to carrying those sorts of items without too much modification required. The platform infrastructure, however, is another story - Modifications to Underpasses, Overpasses, Lifts, Tunnels, smart crossings etc required.

Now I am not saying this to be politically incorrect but sometimes I wonder how much of this DDA thing is a bit Utopian in the sense that mass transit should be catering for the needs of many over the needs of a few and DDA goes against that policy. How much of DDA (on public transport anyway) is about providing for the minority because they have to have the right to catch PT? How strongly do genuine wheelchair/gopher bound people feel about wanting to catch public transport when they have the alternative Access cab option? I know the Access cab system is not perfect but surely it is better than trying to manoeuvre their vehicle onto a bus. How much of DDA (once again on PT) is good in principle but really not practical and has maybe gone too far (Would be wonderful in an ideal and perfect world but the reality is different)?

Should someone with Parkinsons disease be "given the right" to be a brain surgeon because of their brilliant mind even if their body is not capable of allowing them to use their fine motor skills? If that were the case then should surgical procedures and equipment be modified (at whatever expense) to allow that sufferer to be able to perform that surgery? (A little abstract I know but I am just talking about the principle)
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
How much of DDA (once again on PT) is good in principle but really not practical and has maybe gone too far (Would be wonderful in an ideal and perfect world but the reality is different)?
trainznbuses
I have both an electric scooter and a walker. I can walk for a kilometre or more without any aids whatever, and do so when this is necessary, but it is not a pleasant experience. Carrying heavy multiple shopping bags, which I did until a couple of years ago, is now impossible. The appliances both allow me physical support and the opportunity to sit and rest wherever necessary.

Though I can use the scooter on trams and most buses, I never do so. The trams are too crowded at all times of the day and I feel that I have no right to take up the space necessary for its use, and buses are out of the question.

The walker can be folded, but it is very difficult indeed to manoeuvre it up steps past the unnecessary obstruction of a central bannister in many buses, which as an old person I find a decided inconvenience during boarding. I do NOT like the driver having to help me, losing time in the process, though most are very helpful. I have nothing but sympathy for drivers who have to try to keep to a time-table despite cretinous motorists (just try being a long experienced safe driver, now unlicensed, and sit watching the traffic from the front seat of a bus) and inconsiderate passengers who can't even have their cards or money ready.

I can use my scooter on trains and sit on it during the journey to save a seat for another. Again drivers are very helpful and I have nothing but praise for them. I try to be ready to board or disembark with the least possible delay. With the train and scooter, I am nearly as mobile as I used to be when younger and I want to use it as long as possible. My mind is as active and curious about the world as it always was, and I think that my mental abilities and computer skills are a match for any of you, but my body is a healthy machine with very worn joints.

That is why I am more than content for the access to all stations to be with level crossing mazes and short ramps which are the best for all rail users. With train approach gates at the busier or more visually obstructed crossings, all that is needed is for us to LOOK OUT FOR TRAINS. The occasional fool will be killed, but after a long life I have come to the conclusion that fools should not be overprotected at the expense of the rest of us. The only person I feel sorry for in a rail fatality is the driver of the train.

After all we have to cross very busy roads (with vehicles doing things like changing unexpectedly into the free lane into which we were heading) at every bus stop, and we don't have any artificial aids in doing so.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I have nothing but sympathy for drivers who have to try to keep to a time-table despite cretinous motorists (just try being a long experienced safe driver, now unlicensed, and sit watching the traffic from the front seat of a bus) and inconsiderate passengers who can't even have their cards or money ready.
SAR526
I can remember an incident many years ago on what is now the 200 route: a young lady got on the bus then when she got to the driver fumbled at some length for her purse.   The driver patted her on the arm and said "This trick is, dear, to have your money ready before you get on the bus".   Most amusing!
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I can remember an incident many years ago on what is now the 200 route: a young lady got on the bus then when she got to the driver fumbled at some length for her purse.   The driver patted her on the arm and said "This trick is, dear, to have your money ready before you get on the bus".   Most amusing!
kipioneer
Yes but that is just good old common sense you still people fumbling round in a bag or wallet for their Metro card still holding up all and sundry in the process and don't get me started on card tickets either they are even worse. No one has got it into their pea sized brains that if I have it all ready all I have to do virtually is get on, buy a ticket if needed validate what ever you have and find a seat or stand. It should only take seconds not minutes, while Mum or whoever tries to find the fare. Might be an idea to put a fare price sticker on the outside of the bus alongside the door then those waiting in the queue can then hopefully find the correct change to get a ticket. This could also be done on the outside electronically I suppose. But the great unwashed would still continue to fumble to buy a ticket unfortunately.

Oh and by the way I have a Metro Card that I keep in one pocket in my jacket within easy reach as I get on the bus. By the time I get to the validator it is out and ready to be validated. Takes all of 30 seconds not even that actually.
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW

I suggest the whole system would be better off if a specialised taxi bus service was implemented for those who due to disability are limited to wheeled mobility or can't use stairs.
These taxi buses would have to be able to carry the immediate associates of the wheeled person so as not to split up families and legitimate groups.
Fares would be the equivalent PT fare for all passengers.

Ian
steam4ian


The next best thing to useless in any circumstance and in the very long term far more expensive.


There are many people - some 30% of the population over 50, who have a disability, many of these not being visible. Where do you draw the line.

There are other people who have problems with stairs - mothers with babies, people with heavy luggage or shipping - where so you draw the line?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Tony

Thanks for your response.

I note you are from Sydney so could you tell all what provisions are made for boarding trains in Sydney.
Does this cover ALL the stations.

Adelaide PT does not have the usage density to pay for platform staff everywhere nor for attendants on trains; hence the driver has to leave the cab and deploy the ramp etc. I suggest this is a safety issue; drivers here may like to comment.

I recall Croydon, which I have used a lot, only had stairs (it may have been upgraded in the last few years).

Regards
Ian
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW
Either station staff or the guard at unattended stations.

http://www.sydneytrains.info/travelling_with/accessible_services/

In Victoria its the driver always - nearly all Melbourne stations are accessible.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Tony

Thank you for the link.

Looking through the stations I note that some like Croydon have no wheel chair access and others suggest that it is only possible with the help of a friend.

Whilst the Sydney system is extensive it also has more patronage and revenue than Adelaide can reasonably be expected to have.
Guards and staffed stations can not feasibly be on the immediate future menu for Adelaide.

Hard hearted as it may seem I suggest Adelaide has to get PT right for the masses as an equal priority with providing for the disadvantaged.
If it fails with the former it will not be in the position to service the latter. If it succeeds in the former then there is a sound platform (pun intended) to look after the latter.
I suggest that, whilst not socially ideal, alternative transport should be available to the disadvantaged. You will note in my original comments that attendants and families of the disadvantaged should be able to travel with them in the specialised transport so the disadvantaged are not socially excluded.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I have voiced something similar to Ian's views before, specifically related to the OVERSIZE* scooter user.

*oversize in regard to the size of the scooter, not in regard to the person, although the two are sometimes easily confused. I saw a woman in a scooter the other day heading down the ramp(!) to ARS with either a shop awning or caravan annex attached to her scooter. Now I am not convinced that scooters have brakes (and she was going down the ramp) but surely she was not expecting some poor unsuspecting train driver/(U)PSA to 'load' her into the train... Sadly, she probably was...
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
I have voiced something similar to Ian's views before, specifically related to the OVERSIZE* scooter user.

*oversize in regard to the size of the scooter, not in regard to the person, although the two are sometimes easily confused. I saw a woman in a scooter the other day heading down the ramp(!) to ARS with either a shop awning or caravan annex attached to her scooter. Now I am not convinced that scooters have brakes (and she was going down the ramp) but surely she was not expecting some poor unsuspecting train driver/(U)PSA to 'load' her into the train... Sadly, she probably was...
Aaron
They do. The moment that the drive lever is released the scooter locks tight, and even pushing will not budge it. If the scooter fits on the loading ramp, there is no more effort on the part of the driver than for a smaller vehicle. That said, I agree that many scooters are now becoming much more than a necessary mobility aid in carrying their passenger and a reasonable shopping load. This is what is unfair to other passengers, particularly at peak hours. As I said in an earlier posting in this thread, I try to minimize this by avoiding use of my scooter on other than trains and particularly in peak periods. I am sure that I am not the only one.

My mobility in other than my local area has been affected during the long shut down of the Seaford line trains, but it will have been well worthwhile when I can again sit on it on an off-peak train, and even more so when it is an electric one.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

On the use of ramps, I wonder whether it's time to adopt push button automatic ramps for use at stations where there is an unacceptable lateral gap and/or a height difference between the platform and the train. These started to be introduced on many buses in the 1990s and would surely be even better than they were back then. Most of the new buses don't have them any more because the simple ramps flipped out by the driver are faster to operate, but the difference there is that the bus driver is a lot closer to the door than a train driver is.

--------

I propose a simple test to tell whether any given scooter should be allowed onto a public transport service.

If it can rotate more or less on the spot by counter-rotating the rear wheels (for a 4 wheeler) or centre wheels (for a 6 wheeler) with the other smaller wheels freely castering, it's an essential mobility aid that should be allowed on at all times, without any restrictions.

If it has steering front wheels which don't allow rotation on an axis (and therefore lead to innocent bystanders being mown down as the user attempts awkward many-point turns) then it's one of the large scooters for large people, and should only be allowed if there is sufficient space on a first-come-best-dressed basis and with the purchase of an extra concession ticket at all times. No person in genuine need of a mobility aid would go for one of these car substitutes which actually restrict their access to many facilities with their poor manoeuvrability.
  Tallboy-Lemond Station Master

I appreciate this is a forum on wheelchair users, but infrastructure should consider all disabled people, including people with a mental, visual, or hearing disability and younger people. Whilst  an at-grade crossing is better for wheelchair bound people, it still puts other disabled people at higher risk, who cannot see, hear or understand the danger of an approaching train.
  Tallboy-Lemond Station Master

I appreciate this is a forum on wheelchair users, but infrastructure should consider all disabled people, including people with a mental, visual, or hearing disability and younger people. Whilst  an at-grade crossing is better for wheelchair bound people, it still puts other disabled people at higher risk, who cannot see, hear or understand the danger of an approaching train.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: kipioneer, Pressman

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.