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AN timetable question: whyalla

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      Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Adelaide, SA
    hi, i was wondering what was the timetable for the adelaide to whyalla AN passenger rail service (preferably the most recent one before the service was axed)?

    please post it up!
    Posted: 10 Jul 2013 22:43

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      Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

    hi, i was wondering what was the timetable for the adelaide to whyalla AN passenger rail service (preferably the most recent one before the service was axed)?

    please post it up!
    Heath Loxton

    Hasn't this been posted up before and not overly long ago??
    Posted: 11 Jul 2013 12:01
      David Peters Dr Beeching

    Location: "With Hey Boy".
    Hasn't this been posted up before and not overly long ago??
    Jumbo2001
    Yes I think it has actually Jumbo2001, I could tell him search is his friend! Laughing
    Posted: 13 Jul 2013 22:49
      Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Adelaide, SA
    Yes I think it has actually Jumbo2001, I could tell him search is his friend! Laughing
    David Peters
    i have tried to search for it but nothing has come up for WHYALLA!
    Posted: 14 Jul 2013 19:06
      duttonbay Minister for Railways

    It took me less than a minute to find this post:

    http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1814378.htm#1814378
    Posted: 14 Jul 2013 19:12
      David Peters Dr Beeching

    Location: "With Hey Boy".
    i have tried to search for it but nothing has come up for WHYALLA!
    Heath Loxton
    Heath I clicked on search up top and typed in the word Whyalla in the search box and then hit enter and several came up all you had to do was pick one. Took all of less than 1 minute as Dutton Bay said.

    Here is how many it found and how many is on the first page, Found 1916 posts, showing 14.
    Posted: 14 Jul 2013 19:20

    Last edited by David Peters on 14 Jul 2013 19:22; edited 1 time in total
      emdrules Train Controller

    Location: Port Augusta-Centre Of The Universe
    hi, i was wondering what was the timetable for the adelaide to whyalla AN passenger rail service (preferably the most recent one before the service was axed)?

    please post it up!
    Heath Loxton

    In answer to Heath he asked what were the most recent times for the Whyalla service. He did not ask about the 70's and 80's services. He meant the Iron Triangle service. From memory it was ex Whyalla around 5AM, PA just after 6Am and into Keswick around 9.45am. Return was ex Keswick at 5.30pm, PA 9.30 to 9.45pm and Whyalla around 10.45pm.
    Posted: 14 Jul 2013 21:10
      Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Adelaide, SA
    what were the stops on this service?
    Posted: 14 Jul 2013 23:08
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    Millswood, Hawthorn and Clapham!

    Seriously, Coomania (for Pirie)  was possibly the only other stop, no other towns other than Crystal Brook are large enough to warrant a stop.
    The time table is much quicker than earlier times, 4:45 to Whyalla which compares with a self drive.
    Others will know better, but I think the service failed because the equipment wasn't up to it not aided by an RDC getting extensively damaged in an encounter with a semi.

    Ian
    Posted: 14 Jul 2013 23:19
      emdrules Train Controller

    Location: Port Augusta-Centre Of The Universe
    what were the stops on this service?
    Heath Loxton

    Port Augusta and into and out of Port Pirie station. did a pickup at crystal Brook on one trip I was on. It stopped because AN were not interested in it.
    Posted: 14 Jul 2013 23:27
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    Port Augusta and into and out of Port Pirie station. did a pickup at crystal Brook on one trip I was on. It stopped because AN were not interested in it.
    emdrules

    How interested was the public?

    A round trip in a day would have been a fair ordeal for somebody from Whyalla which was potentially the largest draw area. That said the service did mean you could make appointments in Adelaide.

    As I said the trip times are much the same as for a private car and would be hard to better even with the technology available. The RDCs and BBs (if used) would have been flat strap. I lived in Whyalla at the time of the first services in the 1970s and contributed to the "save the rail" report. The "service" was a joke and a byword for unreliability.

    To look like being viable a two car RDC would need to be 75% full when it left Pirie.

    Ian
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 07:12
      futuredriver Junior Train Controller

    Location: Victoria
    Was always pretty popular, school groups etc going for excursions to Adelaide for the day, free fruit boxes etc onboard was an attraction not sure what the cost was to AN.
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 15:34
      Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Adelaide, SA
    i have a few questions regarding this service:

    1) did it just stop at coonamia or did it go into port pirie or did it stop at both locations?
    2) if a passenger boarded at crystal brook where did they board and how as there is no platform?
    3) were there any on request stops apart from port pirie and port augusta?
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 16:29
      duttonbay Minister for Railways

    To look like being viable a two car RDC would need to be 75% full when it left Pirie
    "steam4ian"
    This may be a silly question, but 75% full when it left Pirie in which direction?
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 18:30
      62440 Chief Commissioner

    There is an earlier thread as I have replied before. I used it shortly before it suddenly disappeared in 1989, times above sound right and it did compete with driving. Flying to Whyalla has always been very expensive and served a different market. The alternative was the bus and the train was much better, free coffee and biscuits, loos, a chance to stretch the legs and a smoother ride. Timing as suggested was to allow day trips to Adelaide for appointments.
    It stopped at Coonamia which consisted of a sign, no platform or facilities, you needed to arrange to be picked up. It did not run into Pirie station. Coonamia was there to cut several minutes off the journey. Crystal Brook at least had a recognisable station, alighting and boarding at ground level. I vaguely remember Snowtown being a request stop.
    I remember seeing the Broken Hill Bluebird stopped at Redhill but that was to let the IP overtake. Unfortunately, they also put the IP into the loop and it bumped the Bluebird. It was interesting looking at it and listening to the ABC breaking news of a train smash at Redhill. Up to three coffees were spilt.
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 19:15
      greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

    Location: MacDonald Park, SA
    I think it was in 1989 that the Mary Ellie Street station (Port Pirie) closed & Coonamia was the stop that serviced the regional city. This was to ensure the driver didn't have to change ends,  & save a fair bit of time (at least 20 minutes).
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 20:18
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    This may be a silly question, but 75% full when it left Pirie in which direction?
    duttonbay

    Take your pick.
    Even at that level of occupancy it would not break even but the psychological effect would be to make it appear effective and thus give some impetus to management to its continuing.

    There really needed to be a government (public purse) incentive to subsidise it, again occupancy is fundamental.

    My 2 cars and 75% occupancy is a straw figure but you have to start somewhere.

    Ian
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 20:19
      2001 The Snow Lord

    Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.

    2) if a passenger boarded at crystal brook where did they board and how as there is no platform?
    Heath Loxton
    AN used the Budd Railcars on these services.

    At the doorway there is a floor hatch. The guard opens that hatch, and presto, there are steps below.

    So platforms weren't essential for passenger boarding.
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 21:51
      Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Adelaide, SA
    what about the DDA, would that affect ground level boarding today considering the ghan just dump people at coonamia?
    Posted: 15 Jul 2013 22:38
      duttonbay Minister for Railways

    AN used the Budd Railcars on these services.

    At the doorway there is a floor hatch. The guard opens that hatch, and presto, there are steps below.

    So platforms weren't essential for passenger boarding.
    "2001"

    The Bluebirds also had such steps. This photo shows Bluebirds at Whyalla, which was a low-level platform.

    http://www.comrails.com/pic_ph/ph_bb01.html
    Posted: 16 Jul 2013 13:24
      Seldom_21 Junior Train Controller

    Location: South Australia
    The "thriving" railway station of Whyalla...That was knocked down quite some time I ago if I remember rightly? Obviously no reason to keep it standing.
    Posted: 16 Jul 2013 15:08
      justapassenger Minister for Railways

    what about the DDA, would that affect ground level boarding today considering the ghan just dump people at coonamia?
    Heath Loxton
    If it were a new service being introduced, then you are correct that it probably wouldn't be allowed to operate in that form. Generally the way things work with the DDA (which doesn't specify technical requirements, that would be the relevant Australian Standards) is that low-usage services and facilities may be retained in their current form provided that they do not unreasonably obstruct usage by all, but that the necessary improvements to meet code must be incorporated into the next works on the facility which affect the routes to/from entrances.

    This is the reason that Keswick was allowed to be retained the way it was until the start of this year and never received any improvements for many years, despite the only form of access requiring the use of stairs which were very steep, uneven and dangerously slippery in any non-optimal weather conditions - four big failures there. The work needed there for electrification would have affected the access routes enough to trigger the requirement for full compliance with accessibility standards at the same time, which would have come in as even more expensive than the new build station in the better location with the various other added benefits (such as a crucial link for useful cycling routes, it might not have gotten over the line without contributing to that transport strategy).

    Goodwood is another station that meets very few of the standards that would be demanded of a new station or renovation of access routes to an existing station. It would need to be completely rebuilt to comply with the relevant standards, so you can stop dreaming about any minor work to improve passenger amenity as it would be necessary for the government to shell out for the whole station.
    Posted: 16 Jul 2013 16:08
      Pressman Spirit of the Vine

    Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
    what about the DDA, would that affect ground level boarding today considering the ghan just dump people at coonamia?
    "Heath Loxton"


    Heath, somehow I don't think the GSR management would like your comment about "dumping" passengers.
    Would you make the same comment about the ground level platforms at Alice Springs, Katherine and Darwin?
    Ground level boarding is not uncommon, even in the Airline industry.
    Posted: 16 Jul 2013 17:55
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    Ground level is the norm in the USA and Canada. Superliner trains do have DDA access to the lower deck and a "handicapped" cabin. My wife and I booked it for one trip, one single bunk and a narrow double bed, OK for connubial bliss but too narrow to both sleep through the night, no shower but a loo. The cabin went across the whole car so you could see out both sides, sit on the loo and see through the window. Meals would be brought by the attendant, we could walk and climb the stairs to the diner and lounge.
    Via rail are modifying their dome/lounge vehicles to provide DDA access.

    USA Viewliners are single deck and would be as difficult to modify as out trains. Some depots did have elevating platforms to provide DDA access.

    PRR are/were considering DDA access in one of their brake vans.
    Posted: 16 Jul 2013 19:35

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