Tezza, have you seen my videos? Yes or No?
The Newcastle Rail Line IS to be cut, announced 14 dec 2012
Newcastle Express
Chief Commissioner
Newcastle Express
Chief Commissioner
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1665469/poll-mccloy-still-up-for-job/?cs=305
The heavy rail corridor should be landscaped, with parts used for car parking. ....
More multi-level parking would be provided in readiness for the new law courts and university city campus.
tezza
Chief Commissioner
Yes i have watched your videos , so what ? Two trains a day have passengers, what about all the rest thsn run empty.
Your newspaper clip is just McCloy daydreaming, what plans do the State Government have for the rail corridor? Thats what you want to watch, not McCloy.
Your newspaper clip is just McCloy daydreaming, what plans do the State Government have for the rail corridor? Thats what you want to watch, not McCloy.
Newcastle Express
Chief Commissioner
Tezza, it was not just those trains in the video, but was throughout the days that the videos and photos were taken.
a6et
Minister for Railways
Tezza, it was not just those trains in the video, but was throughout the days that the videos and photos were taken.
The problem with Tezza is that he is all so convinced that the rail line serves for nothing, but a shift to the BMD complex that he supports will magically increase the patronage of the tram & bus services into the Newcastle centre, where the reality is the opposite will occure.
Perhaps if we move this thinking to the Sydney lines we can do what the current government is planning with the new October time table & eliminate trains stopping at 2 major stations. Rockdale which is a main bus interchange hub for buses to Botany Bay, & Kogarah that is the primary station that serves St George Hospital & a couple of large health care facilities, & therefore are quite heavily used.
Of course take a further step & many of the stations along the main local line from Redfern - Burwood could also go especially in the off peak times. Maybe a good idea is to run trains to all suburban stations & place a C as the time, & provide the old green discs for passengers to hold out for the driver to stop to pick up.
I can imagine Tezza must be joyful of the removal of the all stations services to & from Morriset - Ncle in October, which allows the trains to/from Sydney to be all stations rather than the faster services as they are now. The short sighted aspect of these propossals will also mean passenger numbers are likely to decrease owing to the corresponding decrease in the promised better services to worse than what is there now.
Thus if Tezza gets his connecting service at BMD now, rather than in NCLE, the few extra minutes he may save with the bus trip from home will be well eaten up consumed, digested & naturally dispersed by the longer train trip in the all stations to Sydney services.
OTOH, he may also like to consider with all the new businesses that the vultures hovering over the ROW, who want to build their high rise dream over the empty space on the ground to get it out of their equally empty heads, will meet resistance when the new uboot tram services that will be caught in the traffic jams along the main roads, unless mega pay type parking stations are build to take all the new migrants who want to watch the endless stream of industrial served coal ships & others progress up the creek.
tezza
Chief Commissioner
You can drivel on all you like about Sydney, no one up here is interested in the place.
tezza
Chief Commissioner
Its only a 30 minute drive to Wyong , if i want to go to Sydney once a year, i'll catch the train there, or maybe drive the 1 hour 40 minutes into the city.
It will certainly be a much faster service than 4 hours by public transport.
You can bumble about with timetables all you like, you could never match the convenience of the motorway and private car to get to the city from here.
It will certainly be a much faster service than 4 hours by public transport.
You can bumble about with timetables all you like, you could never match the convenience of the motorway and private car to get to the city from here.
a6et
Minister for Railways
Its only a 30 minute drive to Wyong , if i want to go to Sydney once a year, i'll catch the train there, or maybe drive the 1 hour 40 minutes into the city.
It will certainly be a much faster service than 4 hours by public transport.
You can bumble about with timetables all you like, you could never match the convenience of the motorway and private car to get to the city from here.
Makes one wonder with this & your previous reply, why you are interested in RP, as it has to do with rail & not so much road. Interesting that you can drive to Wyong in 30minutes & something you chose not to highlight previously, likewise the option of driving to Sydney, I think the rail commuters would love that as they are actually after better rail services.
Newcastle Express
Chief Commissioner
It will certainly be a much faster service than 4 hours by public transport.And YOU know it's only about 2 & half to 3 hours by train between Newcastle & Sydney, depending on type of service, but they could save 10, maybe 15 minutes with some of the faster trains.
Its only a 30 minute drive to Wyong , if i want to go to Sydney once a year, ...Only 30 minutes?? I don't think so.
Makes one wonder with this & your previous reply, why you are interested in RP, as it has to do with rail & not so much road.That's what I was thinking.
tezza
Chief Commissioner
It is 38km Swansea to Wyong , it is a half an hour drive...
jibbonpoint
Chief Commissioner
Location: Shoalhaven
Has anyone seen the figures that justify the closure of this section? (Sorry to come to this thread so late.)
I'm asking because they would almost certainly be irrelevant. The usual justification is that it's losing money and that can be easily shown. But, when taken over the whole of the network, this is spurious. The people, while there maybe only a few, almost certainly traveled over the main line from Sydney. Will they continue to travel by train or will they complete the whole journey in future by bus. This will mean that there's a loss over the whole system.
From an accounting point of view; it's like a Company that flogs a lot of products from a warehouse. While one of these products may be losing money it is still contributing to the costs. If you just can it, then that vacant space has to be paid for by all the other products lowering their profit contribution. The challenge is to make that product a) pay or b) replace it with a product that will provide that contribution.
As far as rail is concerned, the only option is a) and to add, how many lines have been closed to freight & have been taken over by trucks that wreck roads & add to the road toll.
From a marketing perspective, some may have heard of a bloke called Theodore Levitt who wrote a paper in about 1960 called "Marketing Myopia." And he used the US railway network which was in decline to show that The Railway's thought that they were in the railway industry; they weren't; they were in the transport industry & therefore competing with road transport & losing bigtime.
We all know here that Rail is the most efficient form of moving people & freight.
What should happen?
Money should be spent on selling; on promoting the advantages of rail over other competing forms or adapted to co-operate with other forms. Rail needs to be taken seriously again. Who is going to push it over the demands & resources of the Trucking Companies. (What happened to the Mt Gambier Line?????)
B******ered if I know. It'd be good if someone did.
I'm asking because they would almost certainly be irrelevant. The usual justification is that it's losing money and that can be easily shown. But, when taken over the whole of the network, this is spurious. The people, while there maybe only a few, almost certainly traveled over the main line from Sydney. Will they continue to travel by train or will they complete the whole journey in future by bus. This will mean that there's a loss over the whole system.
From an accounting point of view; it's like a Company that flogs a lot of products from a warehouse. While one of these products may be losing money it is still contributing to the costs. If you just can it, then that vacant space has to be paid for by all the other products lowering their profit contribution. The challenge is to make that product a) pay or b) replace it with a product that will provide that contribution.
As far as rail is concerned, the only option is a) and to add, how many lines have been closed to freight & have been taken over by trucks that wreck roads & add to the road toll.
From a marketing perspective, some may have heard of a bloke called Theodore Levitt who wrote a paper in about 1960 called "Marketing Myopia." And he used the US railway network which was in decline to show that The Railway's thought that they were in the railway industry; they weren't; they were in the transport industry & therefore competing with road transport & losing bigtime.
We all know here that Rail is the most efficient form of moving people & freight.
What should happen?
Money should be spent on selling; on promoting the advantages of rail over other competing forms or adapted to co-operate with other forms. Rail needs to be taken seriously again. Who is going to push it over the demands & resources of the Trucking Companies. (What happened to the Mt Gambier Line?????)
B******ered if I know. It'd be good if someone did.
wurx
Lithgovian Ambassador-at-Large
Location: The mystical lost principality of Daptovia
You've nutshelled it quite well, jibbo - problem is (and this is hardly the only instance thereof, regarding the Garv Mint & the Raily Waze) is that the Garv Mint is practicing marketing myopia, to make the crime fit the punishment.
Mixed metaphor I know - but I think you all get the picture.
Mixed metaphor I know - but I think you all get the picture.
jibbonpoint
Chief Commissioner
Location: Shoalhaven
Thanks Wurx.
About 20 years ago, I was doing a Graduate Diploma at Charles Sturt in Marketing at Charles Sturt (or Mitchell College as it was then), and one of my fellow students was an engineer at State Rail. He was a really nice & clever bloke but he was in charge at the time of closing down the branch lines. I never questioned him about the under utilization of assets or even the criteria that he was given.
It would be nice to see some reversals as is happening in Victoria.
About 20 years ago, I was doing a Graduate Diploma at Charles Sturt in Marketing at Charles Sturt (or Mitchell College as it was then), and one of my fellow students was an engineer at State Rail. He was a really nice & clever bloke but he was in charge at the time of closing down the branch lines. I never questioned him about the under utilization of assets or even the criteria that he was given.
It would be nice to see some reversals as is happening in Victoria.
Showtime
Chief Train Controller
I don't think it was ever a question of whether the rail is making or losing money, it just seems that about 10 years ago someone thought it would be a good idea to get rid of the rail and it has just snowballed since then.
McCloy will never get the funding to move the rail into Hunter Street either.
Imagine the to cost to close and rip up the existing Hunter St and lay down rail lines.
More businesses would have to close as well while this construction was going on and it would take years.
NCC can't even get the road smooth at the Hannel Street gates. Whjat an abortion they have created out of a normal crossing.
If anyone doesn't know what I am talking about then try and drive over the newly completed roadway over the crosssing at anything faster than 25km/h and watch your suspension seperate from your car.
McCloy will never get the funding to move the rail into Hunter Street either.
Imagine the to cost to close and rip up the existing Hunter St and lay down rail lines.
More businesses would have to close as well while this construction was going on and it would take years.
NCC can't even get the road smooth at the Hannel Street gates. Whjat an abortion they have created out of a normal crossing.
If anyone doesn't know what I am talking about then try and drive over the newly completed roadway over the crosssing at anything faster than 25km/h and watch your suspension seperate from your car.
jibbonpoint
Chief Commissioner
Location: Shoalhaven
'twas a lot longer than 10 years ago showtime but your point is taken. One could trace it back to the removal of trams in favour of buses in Sydney. The beneficiary's were at the time, the oil companies.
Then the trucking Companies aided & abetted by the Rail Unions (Don't shoot me, I know there's valid counter arguments and I have targeted the Business end as well) which continues (but now, where are the unions???)
The rot is still going on as evidenced by this thread but it has slowed only because there's less to close.
A campaign led by this substantial Entity known as Railpage of letter writing, agitation but falling short of civil disobedience (for the moment
).
Then the trucking Companies aided & abetted by the Rail Unions (Don't shoot me, I know there's valid counter arguments and I have targeted the Business end as well) which continues (but now, where are the unions???)
The rot is still going on as evidenced by this thread but it has slowed only because there's less to close.
A campaign led by this substantial Entity known as Railpage of letter writing, agitation but falling short of civil disobedience (for the moment
).
Newcastle Express
Chief Commissioner
HEY WAIT-A-MINUTE.
McCloy said he is going down to "meet" a delegation in trying to get the rail cut as soon as possible.
BUT remember, the NCC councillors voted 7 to 6 (no doubt helped by his casting vote I presume), that the council is barred from talking about state issues.
McCloy said he is going down to "meet" a delegation in trying to get the rail cut as soon as possible.
BUT remember, the NCC councillors voted 7 to 6 (no doubt helped by his casting vote I presume), that the council is barred from talking about state issues.
Newcastle Express
Chief Commissioner
Every Tuesday in the Newcastle Herald, is a school newspaper from various schools, that it is meant to be written by students.(1)
But it seems as though the pro-rail cutters may have (not they have) used a school (An inner city school) to "sell" their we must cut the rail line agenda. Tim Owen & other pro-rail cutters are mentioned, including asking him about how Newcastle will look in 10 years.
I doubt that most primary school students would know about the issues surrounding the Newcastle Rail Line.
1. While naturally we can't be sure, the language in the articles seem to be "grown up" (don't know what other words I can use) to be written by the students.
Now would we see two or three full page articles from a school students from a school that supports keeping the rail line in the Newcastle Herald? Now sure, we have seen one, but that was not a full page, and not in the dedicated school section.
But it seems as though the pro-rail cutters may have (not they have) used a school (An inner city school) to "sell" their we must cut the rail line agenda. Tim Owen & other pro-rail cutters are mentioned, including asking him about how Newcastle will look in 10 years.
I doubt that most primary school students would know about the issues surrounding the Newcastle Rail Line.
1. While naturally we can't be sure, the language in the articles seem to be "grown up" (don't know what other words I can use) to be written by the students.
Now would we see two or three full page articles from a school students from a school that supports keeping the rail line in the Newcastle Herald? Now sure, we have seen one, but that was not a full page, and not in the dedicated school section.
tezza
Chief Commissioner
Tezza, have you seen my videos? Yes or No?Yes i have seen them, but i couldnt find your after dark videos when there are no passengers at all to be seen.
a6et
Minister for Railways
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1695654/tenders-for-newcastle-light-rail-issued/?cs=305
The amazing fairy tale with expensive ending is highlighted for all to see.
The tram line is on the old rail alignment, it shows pedestrian overbridges, & by the looks its close to the current terminal end of the line, no sign of the problematic road crossing at Civic, all that looks different is crayoned in grassed areas with trams.
They will rip up perfectly good heavy rail line & sleepers, rip out perfectly good o/head wiring & staunchions & replace with all but the same setup, but it will cost how much just for the rip ups let alone the new rail & o/head, of the interchanges etc, & in the end the only change will be to change mods at a location that will add extra time to the journey.
Well I guess they promised to be different from the previous Labor government, but they did not promise to be different to Lib governments in the past, & they have proved to be true to their word on both counts.
djf01
Chief Commissioner
The amazing fairy tale with expensive ending is highlighted for all to see.
The tram line is on the old rail alignment, it shows pedestrian overbridges, & by the looks its close to the current terminal end of the line, no sign of the problematic road crossing at Civic, all that looks different is crayoned in grassed areas with trams.
They will rip up perfectly good heavy rail line & sleepers, rip out perfectly good o/head wiring & staunchions & replace with all but the same setup, but it will cost how much just for the rip ups let alone the new rail & o/head, of the interchanges etc, & in the end the only change will be to change mods at a location that will add extra time to the journey.
Well I guess they promised to be different from the previous Labor government, but they did not promise to be different to Lib governments in the past, & they have proved to be true to their word on both counts.
The first tender was for an analysis of options of where light rail should travel in the city centre and how it would support the revitalisation.
...
The second tender was for more detailed work to look at travel patterns – how people move around the city, and whether they use a car, bus, train, walk or ride a bike.
This is a tender to get an "independent" report that the light rail is a waste of money and shouldn't be built because not enough people would use it (thanks to the crappy interchange). It'll move the route to that optimal for LRT, then do a study to show busses would be more appropriate for that corridor.
Junction box
Chief Commissioner
Location: newy
The rail line divides Sydney in half, something needs to be done.
This the work of bored pensioner groups trying to save the world.
This the work of bored pensioner groups trying to save the world.
Newcastle Express
Chief Commissioner
Passenger counters ignoring trains at Newcastle Station while counting passengers
Observed this: One of the passenger counters was having a Subway sandwich & then drinking a soft drink.
An 8 car train came in with a load of passengers. She actually ignored that train, and didn't take a count, and no, the other passenger counter was not counting that train either. She only started to "count" (press the whatever you call it button) when most of the passengers were off, and when she overhead me commenting about it.
At no time did the other passenger counter take over, while she was stuffing her, I mean eating & drinking something. The other passenger counter was on Platform 4.
How many more times have these passenger counters actually ignored counting passengers from trains, that we don't know about?
Observed this: One of the passenger counters was having a Subway sandwich & then drinking a soft drink.
An 8 car train came in with a load of passengers. She actually ignored that train, and didn't take a count, and no, the other passenger counter was not counting that train either. She only started to "count" (press the whatever you call it button) when most of the passengers were off, and when she overhead me commenting about it.
At no time did the other passenger counter take over, while she was stuffing her, I mean eating & drinking something. The other passenger counter was on Platform 4.
How many more times have these passenger counters actually ignored counting passengers from trains, that we don't know about?
Junction box
Chief Commissioner
Location: newy
Opening up the Hunter street Mall to road traffic has ruined it, it has become a car park and the food hall is dead with one shop remaining.
John Ibrahim should of been allowed to turn the old Post office into a night club, not left derelict.
Now they wanna make it harder to get there, they couldn't organize a sausage at a BBQ, this town is a mess and needs a leader with forsight.
John Ibrahim should of been allowed to turn the old Post office into a night club, not left derelict.
Now they wanna make it harder to get there, they couldn't organize a sausage at a BBQ, this town is a mess and needs a leader with forsight.
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