Belair line new timetable

 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I wouldn't be so quick to make excuses for shoddy timetabling. The line was closed for long enough the timetable should have been known in advance.

As for improving it when the whole network is operational, that could be little than a joke. With slight hindrance of a TSR through Kesville etc the line should be at full capability right now. Presumably (hopefully) never again will there be such a lack of competition for platform space at ARS.

If they can't run a real timetable with a small TSR and 1/3 of the network not accessing the main station there is little hope for them in the future when Seaford et al are landing a three car spark in there every 15 mins.

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  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The Belair Timetable may probably only be an interim timetable till the whole network is once again operating at full capacity. Then things can be sorted out line for line so to speak and tweaks made as necessary to certain timetables. Once the Electric trains start running in full on the Seaford line then these timetables will more than likely be tweaked again to reflect connections etc. All the timetables have to work into one another a bit to allow connections to be made at Adelaide if you so wish. Not sure if I am right on this but it seem's that way to me.
David Peters
It has already been confirmed that this is a temporary timetable, lasting only until the Wayville station is opened next year.

My guess is that it is also doing double duty as a test to see whether the staff are capable of delivering intense timetables over a sustained period of time, using expendable Belair line passengers as guinea pigs (daily usage at Glenalta, Pinera and Belair combined is probably just a 150-200 people a day at most) before trying it on two lines concurrently in a year's time when electric service starts. If they can't handle this Belair/Blackwood timetable, then the targeted 9-10 trains per hour each way on the Seaford/Tonsley line might need to be revised downwards and capacity enhanced (using two electric units coupled) instead of frequency.

You must be on the wacky tobaccy if you think that connections between the different lines in the city is ever going to be a consideration for timetabling, as the historical trend of the last ten years on the public transport network has been to abolish connections and countering that would require prioritising the needs of the customers over what's convenient for playing trains. We're already importing a lot of stuff that we've never had on our rail network before with all the work on the Seaford/Tonsley lines, putting out a tender for the import and implementation of a customer service ethic would be one step too far.

As for improving it when the whole network is operational, that could be little than a joke. With slight hindrance of a TSR through Kesville etc the line should be at full capability right now. Presumably (hopefully) never again will there be such a lack of competition for platform space at ARS.

If they can't run a real timetable with a small TSR and 1/3 of the network not accessing the main station there is little hope for them in the future when Seaford et al are landing a three car spark in there every 15 mins.
Aaron
The TSR through Kesville and Goodwood is probably not much of a hindrance for a Belair service, once all the works are over next year they'll have a higher top speed but they will need to stop at the station.

EMUs will need to be arriving or departing Adelaide at an average of three minute intervals in the peaks to meet the various service promises that have been made about the Seaford/Tonsley line out of Adelaide. A 15 minute frequency to/from Tonsley is just the latest addition, a departure or arrival every 5-7 minutes at Seaford in the peaks has been promised as well as an average frequency of 7.5 minutes for the Seaford/Tonsley line in the peaks, which is eight trains per hour.

That's a minimum of nine trains an hour in each direction to fulfil all three promises (or 10/8 or 11/7, the "departure or arrival every 5-7 minutes at Seaford leaves a little flexibility) which is an intense service by most measures, and one I'm not confident our signalling system or staff competency is up to handling. Hence my comment further up about trialling an intense single-line service on a handful of expendable users before doubling everything and trying it on thousands.
  defman Station Master

And the depot reopening?
Aaron
No... Just two 2 car sets being stabled overnight... basically doing away with the 4 car empty set that heads up the hill first thing, uncouples and sits in the yard to cover the Blackwoods.. it would seem....
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

So presumably that brings an end to the two post-midnight inbound "services" which are in reality empty stock movements?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So presumably that brings an end to the two post-midnight inbound "services" which are in reality empty stock movements?
"justapassenger"
And also the 4.30am down empty four set.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Which services does that form?

I'm looking at the new temporary timetable dated 14 July* and I can't see any inbound trains that start from Belair or Blackwood without there being an arrival sitting there for a layover between 7-22 minutes long to switch ends.

Is there an updated timetable published since July 14 which has had public services added or subtracted? If not, why are there now empty movements in addition to the nominal public services which function as empty movements?

* yes, I know it started a week later and started running close to on time a week after that, but it's the date on the front, the PDF on the website is the same and the times are identical on the HTML versions.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The ABC midday news today (16/08/2013) reports that from next week all morning Adelaide bound trains will start from Belair, and one of the evening peak services previously terminating at Blackwood will continue to Belair.

***Edit***

Not quite right!  1 service in the morning will turn back at Blackwood, and 4 in the evening.

The morning service seems to be an alternating 10 / 20 minute headway service, the afternoon/evening service roughly at 15 minute intervals.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The morning service seems to be an alternating 10 / 20 minute headway service, the afternoon/evening service roughly at 15 minute intervals.
kipioneer
If you look carefully, you'll see that both peaks have close enough to equal intervals at the city end where it matters most, and less even at the hills end. In both peaks, every second train has about four minutes of padding at Blackwood station.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Three trains ex Belair, 7:32, 8;02 & 8:32,  have no corresponding down movement to provide the consist and there do not appear any movements leaving cars to lay over through the night at Belair yard.

Did somebody in the time tabling department read my messages about having double consist down  movements and splitting them at Belair? Did somebody in the same department read my suggestion of holding the trains at Blackwood to restore the required interval?

If Mark Parnell gets any kudos I expect acknowledgement! Laughing

Ian
  Tallboy-Lemond Station Master

Three trains ex Belair, 7:32, 8;02 & 8:32,  have no corresponding down movement to provide the consist and there do not appear any movements leaving cars to lay over through the night at Belair yard.

Did somebody in the time tabling department read my messages about having double consist down  movements and splitting them at Belair? Did somebody in the same department read my suggestion of holding the trains at Blackwood to restore the required interval?

If Mark Parnell gets any kudos I expect acknowledgement! Laughing

Ian
"steam4ian"


I look forward to Mark formally thanking you Ian. Obviously as a politician he is not seeking personal gain, but only concerned with doing his little bit for the greater good.Smile.

To be fair he appears to be generally interested in the trains and he at least uses the trains. Can't say the same for the blue tie/shirt car map that like the NIMBYs and BANANAs and pop up anytime anything good is happening.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

I will not be voting for Mark and his ilk but I do recognise his contribution to improving a public amenity.

If these pages can make any contribution it is a credit to us all.

Ian
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
Surprisingly this morning the 6:46am service to Blackwood was cancelled & one of my friends said that service was replaced by a bus.
  AFULE Chief Train Controller

Location: South Australia
I look forward to Mark formally thanking you Ian. Obviously as a politician he is not seeking personal gain, but only concerned with doing his little bit for the greater good.Smile.

To be fair he appears to be generally interested in the trains and he at least uses the trains. Can't say the same for the blue tie/shirt car map that like the NIMBYs and BANANAs and pop up anytime anything good is happening.
Tallboy-Lemond
I think my contribution on radio and some other people behind the senses did more that Mark did --- and could there be a relationship between this STUPID original PTSD decision and the over turning of it and the vacating of the boss of the PTSD???
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

... and could there be a relationship between this STUPID original PTSD decision and the over turning of it and the vacating of the boss of the PTSD???
AFULE
Good point, the press release had all the hallmarks of it being a classic public service case of "you're fired, if you resign we won't empty the trash on your head." There was probably something bigger behind that though, maybe she was made the scapegoat for the failures of the electrification project and EMU procurement.

The thing I'm most concerned about with the new Belair timetable is that the last scheduled service finishes at 1:42 and the first starts at 5:10, leaving only three hours' space for maintenance to be conducted without extra closures. At the least they could dump the last two trains from Belair to the city and give the line a chance of having routine maintenance conducted instead of leaving it to get run down until the next capital project 20 years later.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Surprisingly this morning the 6:46am service to Blackwood was cancelled & one of my friends said that service was replaced by a bus.
greasyrhys
Trees down on the line?
  mclaren2007 Assistant Commissioner

Location: recharging my myki
we'll probably never know

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