PENSIONERS want free PT

 
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
...


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/bayside/pensioners-want-free-public-transport/story-fngnvli9-1226685158494


PENSIONERS want the State Government to give them free travel on public transport, especially if they are told they are too old to drive. Lobby group Fair Go for Pensioners will send a submission to the government to ask that pensioners receive free public transport seven days a week.
Victorian Seniors Card holders are provided with a free myki, which entitles them to concession fares on trains, trams and buses during the week and a certain amount of free travel on Saturdays and Sundays.

Fair Go For Pensioners Victoria chairman Roger Wilson said public transport was a major expense for many pensioners.
"Free travel would help pensioners. The government could do more to assist pensioners on limited incomes as cost of living increases impact more on pensioners than those with full-time work," Mr Wilson said.
"We will keep campaigning until we see some improvements," he said.
However, Public Transport Users Association spokesman Paul Westcott said the association would not support free public transport.
"We would be wary of extending free public transport to pensioners.
"On balance we prefer the pensions be raised, rather than free public transport. The more people don't pay on public transport, the more it relies on the state budget," Mr Westcott said.
"If you rely on the budgetary process, governments could see that as a chance to cut services, or cut back on maintenance and other things."
Police have asked elderly people to talk to family and seek medical advice about continuing to drive after a spate of car accidents involving older drivers.
Road policing Assistant Commissioner Robert Hill said three-year licences were introduced for people 75 or older to encourage drivers to voluntarily assess their fitness to drive regularly.
Transport Minister Terry Mulder's spokeswoman Larisa Garvin did not respond when asked for comment.
Somebody


I think this good idea of making free public transport - note they do in Perth "  they're entitled to travel for free on all Transperth services between 9.00am and 3.30pm Monday to Friday, all day Saturday and Sunday, as well as public holidays."

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I thought this was the case for two zones?
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
I thought this was the case for two zones?
railblogger
I think it should be for all zones.

At them moment it a Indian Giver system, by if a person travels up to two zones and then they get free pt.

But if they decide to travel another zone and then the PTV wants the free travel back and changes the person the for a zone 1 to 3 fare.

Indian Giver
There are two popular etymologies for this term for a person who gives a gift only to later demand its return.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Seniors myki cardholders never pay more than $3.80 on weekdays for unlimited travel in Zones 1 and 2 ($3.50 on public holidays). They also receive free travel on Saturdays and Sundays in metropolitan Melbourne (Zones 1 + 2) and on regional town bus services where myki is operating.
myki

Link: http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/metropolitan-myki-fares/

And

Victorian Seniors Card holders, Disability Support Pensioners and Carer Payment recipients are eligible for a free myki which contains a free weekend travel entitlement.
Your myki will automatically give you free travel on weekends within any two adjacent zones (for example, Zones 1 and 2) in Victoria when you touch on and touch off.
You must carry both your myki and a valid Victorian Seniors Card or Centrelink Pensioner Concession Card with you in order to travel free on weekends.
Myki

Link: http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/free-travel-passes/free-weekend-travel/

So it looks line Seniors Card holders already get an extremely good deal, along with DSP and Carer payment recipients
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I think it should be for all zones.

At them moment it a Indian Giver system, by if a person travels up to two zones and then they get free pt.

But if they decide to travel another zone and then the PTV wants the free travel back and changes the person the for a zone 1 to 3 fare.

Indian Giver
There are two popular etymologies for this term for a person who gives a gift only to later demand its return.
melbtrip

They lucky to get anything at all!
Ungrateful sod that you are Confused
  Mitty Assistant Commissioner

Location: Hawthorn
I don't know this for sure, but a senior with free weekend travel entitlement in zone 1&2 would not pay the full fare to travel out into Zone 3 and above on Vline, only the difference in fare, which would be negligible.  

EG say a senior in Melbourne caught a tram to Southern Cross, which would create a daily zone 1&2 fare product on their card.  They then travel to Geelong.  The fare to Geelong on the weekend is $3.85 one way, and they've already "paid" $3.50 of that fare with their zone 1&2 freebie, so they should by rights only pay $0.35 to get to Geelong.  Note I haven't personally tested this, I'm not a senior but as far as I understand that's how it "should" work.

I'm not sure about coming back to Melbourne... at worse they'll pay another $3.85, but the zone 1&2 part of their fare could cover some of that as well.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I would also assume that anyone with a free weekend entitlement, and who travels outside the 2 adjoining requirement for free travel, would only pay the difference between the total cost for all the zones travelled and 2 adjoining zones from where the person touched on fare.
Someone who touches on at Geelong train station and travels to Southern Cross on a Sunday would, I presume, get their zone 3/4 for free as that is where they touched on, and only have to pay for zones 1/2 as they have travelled outside their 2 zones freebie limit. Whereas someone who touches on at Southern Cross would get their zones 1/2 for free, and then pay for zones 3/4.

I wonder if someone like Revenue knows Confused
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I would also assume that anyone with a free weekend entitlement, and who travels outside the 2 adjoining requirement for free travel, would only pay the difference between the total cost for all the zones travelled and 2 adjoining zones from where the person touched on fare.
Someone who touches on at Geelong train station and travels to Southern Cross on a Sunday would, I presume, get their zone 3/4 for free as that is where they touched on, and only have to pay for zones 1/2 as they have travelled outside their 2 zones freebie limit. Whereas someone who touches on at Southern Cross would get their zones 1/2 for free, and then pay for zones 3/4.

I wonder if someone like Revenue knows Confused
xxxxlbear
I think they pay the concession fare for the whole trip.
  Mitty Assistant Commissioner

Location: Hawthorn
My parents will be trying it out soon enough, so I'll report back on how much they get charged.
  VRcommando Junior Train Controller

Location: VOZ
Considering that the majority of them had long term stable employment which is quickly fading they can pay through the roof for their transport or stay home. In 20 years they'll all be gone anyway!
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
What, half-fares aren't good enough? Rolling Eyes
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Pensioners just want, want, want.

No different to children, really.

Arguments always seem to revolve around statements about our elders working hard and paying taxes all their lives (lucky buggers, or lucky silly old buggers) and 'earning' the right to a free ride in their twilight years. What is often forgotten is the free ride they enjoyed during their working years (totally free education for their kids etc).

The amount I pay annually in income tax pays for a couple on the age pension, and then some. I, like lesser taxpayers, should get to decide what things pensioners are entitled to, and anything more than concession rates for public transport isn't one of them. As time goes on more and more retirees will be only partially reliant on the age pension anyway. A nominal fee for public transport, which they already enjoy, is good enough.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

It is worth differentiating between Seniors and Pensioners - as they are separate groups. However, for the purposes of the following dot points, I will assume that we are talking about a Pensioner over 60 who also has a Seniors Card (so, not talking about disability pensioners or other groups under 60).

A Pensioner who is also a Senior:

- Gets free travel when travelling entirely within one or two zones on weekends - such as within Melbourne or within Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, etc. (concession fares apply when travelling more than two zones)
- Has their fare capped at the Seniors Daily rate when travelling within Zones 1+2 on weekdays (which means they pay less than, say, a six year old, for many trips)
- They get a free week of travel during Seniors Week
- They get a Pensioner Free Travel voucher  (travel anywhere in the state)
- They get multiple Seniors Off-Peak Travel Vouchers (travel anywhere in the state off-peak)

That's a pretty good deal.  I think the problem may be that Pensioners may not be aware of the above benefits.

The other problem is that the term Pensioners has come to be associated with Seniors - whereas one is means tested and one is not.  I have no problem with providing people on a full Pension with additional public transport benefits (preferably benefits in off-peak times - to avoid increasing congestions at peak hours and encourage some users to switch from peak to off-peak), but I think that any additional benefits for Seniors need to be very carefully considered.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
It is worth differentiating between Seniors and Pensioners - as they are separate groups. However, for the purposes of the following dot points, I will assume that we are talking about a Pensioner over 60 who also has a Seniors Card (so, not talking about disability pensioners or other groups under 60).

A Pensioner who is also a Senior:

- Gets free travel when travelling entirely within one or two zones on weekends - such as within Melbourne or within Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, etc. (concession fares apply when travelling more than two zones)
- Has their fare capped at the Seniors Daily rate when travelling within Zones 1+2 on weekdays (which means they pay less than, say, a six year old, for many trips)
- They get a free week of travel during Seniors Week
- They get a Pensioner Free Travel voucher  (travel anywhere in the state)
- They get multiple Seniors Off-Peak Travel Vouchers (travel anywhere in the state off-peak)

That's a pretty good deal.  I think the problem may be that Pensioners may not be aware of the above benefits.

The other problem is that the term Pensioners has come to be associated with Seniors - whereas one is means tested and one is not.  I have no problem with providing people on a full Pension with additional public transport benefits (preferably benefits in off-peak times - to avoid increasing congestions at peak hours and encourage some users to switch from peak to off-peak), but I think that any additional benefits for Seniors need to be very carefully considered.
Revenue
The question why is there a difference between the two groups when becomes to public transport?
Age and the disability pensioners  get same amount money from Centrelink and most state there is no difference in concession price for public transport( for example Sydney), so for why is there a difference in Victoria when comes to public transport?

If you going to give a person free travel for two zones and than it unfair to take that back when they travel more than two zones and ask them to pay for something that was given to them free in the first place.

for example: Person travels from Melbourne to Portsea via Franskton ( with a  disability pension myki card on the weekend).
They get train from city to Franskton :
Tag on : Flinders Street
Tag off : Franskton

Cost: free travel (zone 1 to 2)

Bus : Franskton to Portsea:

Tag on : Franskton
Tag off : Portsea

fare under one myki: $3.85
fare when using two myki cards:$1.43


Age and the disability pensioners  are  income tested (other than a  person is blind and there money from centrelink is not income tested )

I think it time for all pensioners  should be treat the same regardless if they on the Age or the disability pension when comes public transport concession fares!
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Age and Disability Pensioners DO get the same benefits. I'm merely pointing out that there are benefits available to Seniors - which result in many Aged Pensioners getting a better overall deal than Disability Pensioners.  You haven't framed your argument correctly. What you are saying is that you want Disability Pensioners to get similar benefits to Seniors.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Age and Disability Pensioners DO get the same benefits. I'm merely pointing out that there are benefits available to Seniors - which result in many Aged Pensioners getting a better overall deal than Disability Pensioners.  You haven't framed your argument correctly. What you are saying is that you want Disability Pensioners to get similar benefits to Seniors.
Revenue
That is correct - I am saying Disability Pensioners should get the same benefits as Seniors when comes to public transport.

They do not get access to the $3.80 daily cap
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
That is correct - I am saying Disability Pensioners should get the same benefits as Seniors when comes to public transport.

They do not get access to the $3.80 daily cap
melbtrip

Enough, Melbtrip Rolling Eyes

DSP recipients, if they have the correct Myki DSP concession card, get free weekend travel for 2 consecutive zones, whch essentially means free travel in Melbourne if all their travel is within Melbournes zones 1 & 2.

The $3.80 cap is only applicable to Seniors that hold the correct Myki seniors concession card.

Melbtrip, you are not arguing for all DSP recipients - I am on a disability pension, and for one thing, I am very grateful for the free weekend travel, and another thing, I have more important things to worry about with Myki than DSP concession card holders getting the same benefits as Senior card holders. Afterall, seniors have usually worked for 40-50 years-they deserve some benefits that no-one else gets.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Enough, Melbtrip Rolling Eyes

DSP recipients, if they have the correct Myki DSP concession card, get free weekend travel for 2 consecutive zones, whch essentially means free travel in Melbourne if all their travel is within Melbournes zones 1 & 2.

The $3.80 cap is only applicable to Seniors that hold the correct Myki seniors concession card.

Melbtrip, you are not arguing for all DSP recipients - I am on a disability pension, and for one thing, I am very grateful for the free weekend travel, and another thing, I have more important things to worry about with Myki than DSP concession card holders getting the same benefits as Senior card holders. Afterall, seniors have usually worked for 40-50 years-they deserve some benefits that no-one else gets.
xxxxlbear
I am arguing for a simple and easy to understand fare system.

It my view  -  all people that get a pension should be treated equality regardless what type of pension they get.

- single parent pension
- disability pension
- age pension
- if any pension I may left out

If there was a flat fare (under myki, like they have in Syndey) for people on a pension and it would lift a barrier that stop people of using public transport at the current moment. (there some people in community do not use public transport because the fare system is too complex for them to understand.)

There should be like a Pensioner Excursion fare here under myki and which a Pensioner pays a flat fare for the day.

I know people  on  the disability pension and they travel to Sydney and one of the feedback come up about Sydney PT fares - is  Public transport fares for Pensioner is simple and easy to understand and they only need to buy one ticket at small cost.

In Sydney -
Pensioner Excursion Tickets are available to holders of:
  • Pensioner Concession Cards issued by Centrelink or the Department of Veterans' Affairs
  • NSW Seniors Cards
  • Seniors Cards issued by other Australian state or territory governments.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Melbtrip, I am not sure what your problem is, but I am close to stoping arguing with you, it's pointless.
Sometimes I think you are 23 cans short of a slab, seriously.

Unless you are that stupid, pensioners do get the same fare....it's called a concession fare. Let me repeat that for you, people on a pension are entitled to a concession fare, the same fare regardless of what pension one gets, as long as they are entitled to a blue pensioner concession card. How simple is that?


Oh, and people on a yellow health care card (those who are low income, on unemployment benefits or other allowances such as Austudy etc) are generally eligible for the same concession fares as well.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Yes.  Concession entitlement has been expanded to include all Healthcare types.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
...



I think this good idea of making free public transport - note they do in Perth "  they're entitled to travel for free on all Transperth services between 9.00am and 3.30pm Monday to Friday, all day Saturday and Sunday, as well as public holidays."
melbtrip

PT shouldn't be completely free, even for pensioners, since

* the ticketing system generates useful statistics regarding passenger densities
* vandals tend to not buy tickets, and ticketless travel helps weed them out.
* remember the Oklahoma City bomber who couldn't be bothered to have licence plates on his truck, which helped the police catch him.
* Pensioners already get a large subsisdy on PT.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
And how do you plan to implement all of this?

Your ideas are so far-fetched it's not funny.

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Subscribers: Boss, xxxxlbear

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