Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
from ptv website
melbtrip

If only real life and the PTV website worked the same way.

They don't.

See posts above for confirmation.

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  g00r Locomotive Fireman

Always paying the lowest fare with Myki... (Despite the ticketing manual)

The $3.50 weekend cap zone 1 & 2 seems to have extended further, as far as zone 4



18/08/2013 19:17:30 Touch on Train 4 South Geelong Station - - -
18/08/2013 19:17:30 Touch off (Default Fare) Train 4 South Geelong Station - - -
18/08/2013 17:52:38 Touch off (Default Fare)* Bus 1 Melbourne City,Route 905in - $3.50 $18.79
18/08/2013 17:52:38 Touch on Bus 1 Melbourne City,Route 905in - - -
18/08/2013 17:31:03 Touch on Bus 1 Abbotsford,Route t906in - - -
18/08/2013 17:31:03 Touch off Bus 1 Abbotsford,Route t906in - - -
18/08/2013 00:06:23 Top up myki money Auto top up - - $20.00 - $22.29

Balance still sitting at $18.79 three days later.
Thanks Myki

(Didn't touch off on 905 bus, so was still touched on when I boarded at SCS. Conductor did her thing with she checked my card)
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

If you are trying to board a bus or tram, or are at an unstaffed railway station, and your Myki is broken, how do you got to a staffed station?
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
If you are trying to board a bus or tram, or are at an unstaffed railway station, and your Myki is broken, how do you got to a staffed station?
duttonbay
That has always been one of my arguments for cash short-trip or single-use tickets.  

It is ridiculous that a user can be fined when there is no way to reasonably pay for a journey and it is not known that there is a problem on the card until the journey is started.

If all our stations were staffed and gated then the problem wouldn't exist but that is not the case and is unlikely (unless things change radically) to ever become the case.

The system should provide for this sort of eventuality just as it should provide for the purchase of a concession card.

Are we alone in this state in being fined for trying to do the right thing when we are defeated by the system?  Everywhere else I have travelled offers at least a Permit to Travel ticket (sometimes simply pulled from a roll much like the numbers at a deli counter but with a station of origin printed on it) when other options fail, takes cash or allows users to make the shortest possible journey to a point where they can pay / rectify a problem.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
All that happens is you have to buy another plastic card from the TVM assuming it's present at your location, working properly, and assuming you have the extra money to buy one at full fare - too bad if you are on a concession.  If you forget it for whatever reason you also need to buy another one - I have friends who've ended up with multiple unwanted cards for this reason that either end up being given away or just thrown in the bin.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
If you forget it for whatever reason you also need to buy another one - I have friends who've ended up with multiple unwanted cards for this reason that either end up being given away or just thrown in the bin.
don_dunstan

And then Revenue pops in to suggest that based on the number of cards in circulation some rather high percentage of the population now have one.

I don't know many of the population.  Of those I know about fewer than 10% hold a Myki.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
And then Revenue pops in to suggest that based on the number of cards in circulation some rather high percentage of the population now have one.

I don't know many of the population.  Of those I know about fewer than 10% hold a Myki.
Gwiwer

Or people who've had contact with it vow to never use it again.

I have friends from the country who threw theirs in the bin because they thought it was broken on their next visit to Melbourne.  I had the sad duty of telling them they had actually been 'locked out' of their accounts because they hadn't used them for four months. They were furious because there was money left on them... they promptly vowed to never use public transport in Melbourne ever again and to drive and pay for parking from now on.  Yay!  Another set of converts.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Myki distinguished itself on Saturday for many passengers, including me, on 8071; the 0936 Down Echuca.
We were unable to touch on at SCS.
I had previously gone to the ticket window to buy a ticket for this train, not knowing that I could use Myki on it. A very helpful booking bloke advised me not to use my  Seniors Card on a normal ticket, because Myki would be cheaper.
Excellent idea, if only it had worked.
The train's conductor was kept busy taking Myki cards and processing them. He was a very efficient and good natured bloke, and seemed quite philosophical that Myki had failed again. . .   "It happens all the time."
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Or people who've had contact with it vow to never use it again.

I have friends from the country who threw theirs in the bin because they thought it was broken on their next visit to Melbourne.  I had the sad duty of telling them they had actually been 'locked out' of their accounts because they hadn't used them for four months. They were furious because there was money left on them... they promptly vowed to never use public transport in Melbourne ever again and to drive and pay for parking from now on.  Yay!  Another set of converts.
don_dunstan
Can it be reactivated by touching on?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Can it be reactivated by touching on?
railblogger

I believe that you have to put money on it to 're-activate' it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Myki distinguished itself on Saturday for many passengers, including me, on 8071; the 0936 Down Echuca.
We were unable to touch on at SCS.
I had previously gone to the ticket window to buy a ticket for this train, not knowing that I could use Myki on it. A very helpful booking bloke advised me not to use my  Seniors Card on a normal ticket, because Myki would be cheaper.
Excellent idea, if only it had worked.
The train's conductor was kept busy taking Myki cards and processing them. He was a very efficient and good natured bloke, and seemed quite philosophical that Myki had failed again. . .   "It happens all the time."
Valvegear

Can you use it all the way to Echuca?  I thought that was a 'reservations' service.  Did you end up getting charged any amount of money on Myki or was it completely free?

I didn't get charged again today lunchtime using a bus... for some reason it seems to pick Mondays as the best days to give me a free trip.  Touched on and off but no charge.  No doubt a software glitch but hopefully it stays broken for some time, maybe I shouldn't be advertising the fault on this forum given the people who read it!
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Another thing happened to me on the weekend that may have relevance to this thread.
I was dropped off at Southern Cross at 1750hrs yesterday (Sunday) at the Bourke Street entrance. I prefer this entrance as I can usually get easy access to the front carriage of the Geelong bound V/Line train.
I checked the departure screen expecting to find the train sitting at one of the usual platforms - 3 to 8.
To my horror, I found that the train was departing plat. 8S which meant that I now had quite a huge walk from the Bourke Street overpass to plat. 8S.
I didn't worry about touching on with my Myki card on the overpass as I presumed that I would be able to when I neared plat. 8S.

What I found out was that, as I had caught the lift down to platform 8, walked the entire platform, and approached the train sitting at plat 8S, I couldn't touch on, as there weren't any Myki machines of any nature near by, the last chance I had to 'touch on' was at the Bourke St overpass just before I entered the lift. And I didn't have time to go searching around the main concourse as it was now about 1759hrs (it takes me awhile to walk anywhere), and the train had less than a minute before it departed.
Point is, I boarded the train without 'touching on'. The conductor came around after leaving Werribee and checked tickets.

He was able to easily touch me on with his hand held machine. There has been references to what the conductor can and can't do with his/her machine in this thread, and the implication was that they can only check the card status, and set the default fare. Now it seems that they can touch people on (and presumably touch passengers off as well) if thay want to.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I believe that you have to put money on it to 're-activate' it.
don_dunstan
Yes, was a stupid question. But couldn't they add a feature to allow this to happen? That way infrequent travellers with enough money on their cards could travel, go into debt, but have their fare paid when reactivation is complete.
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

Conductors can touch you on but can't touch you off.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Did anyone see the editorial of today's Herald-Sun, they were going crook about Myki incorrectly charging bus passengers - very relevant considering my observation earlier.  Apparently the latest problem is to do with bus drivers not putting the correct zone into the interface and passengers either getting over or under-charged.  The Herald-Sun as masters of the bleeding obvious pointed out that they've now had about seven years to get it right and still it doesn't work properly.

Also I forgot to mention that I was on the bus yesterday and some tourists got on (brandishing expensive-looking cameras) and tried to hand the driver cash - he just laughed at them and said "no Myki, no travel".  They were very unimpressed.  More people won over to Melbourne public transport, I'm sure it left an indelible impression on them...
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Can you use it all the way to Echuca?  I thought that was a 'reservations' service.  Did you end up getting charged any amount of money on Myki or was it completely free?
"don_dunstan"


I only wanted to go as far as Castlemaine, but it appeared as though it applied to the entire journey, judging by the number of Myki touch-ons the connie was doing.
That train is not a reservations service by the way.
I expect to be charged something; V Line isn't free on week ends for Seniors,  although metropolitan public transport is.  I haven't looked yet. My new Myki is not registered to my name, as my previous one was, so it will wait until I'm at a machine.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Did anyone see the editorial of today's Herald-Sun, they were going crook about Myki incorrectly charging bus passengers - very relevant considering my observation earlier.  Apparently the latest problem is to do with bus drivers not putting the correct zone into the interface and passengers either getting over or under-charged.  The Herald-Sun as masters of the bleeding obvious pointed out that they've now had about seven years to get it right and still it doesn't work properly.

Also I forgot to mention that I was on the bus yesterday and some tourists got on (brandishing expensive-looking cameras) and tried to hand the driver cash - he just laughed at them and said "no Myki, no travel".  They were very unimpressed.  More people won over to Melbourne public transport, I'm sure it left an indelible impression on them...
don_dunstan
People getting on a bus with cash, being told they need to buy a Myki card, and cracking the s**ts when they get told the cost of a Myki card occurs a hell of alot more than Myki PR spin doctors would like us to believe.
Whenever I volunteer at Queenscliff and catch the bus to go home, there are a rather substantial number of people who decide to catch the bus at the Ferry terminal after coming over on the ferry from Sorrento, and when they board the bus, they find out that they have to part with $6 or $3 conc. even before they can buy a bus fare. Some decide that it isnt worth the expense and walk into town.

Whoever says that Myki is working properly is just bull-tishing.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Similar sort of thing happening locally here as well.  The regulars seem to adapt to a change (whether willingly or not is another matter) but more than a few others are offering drivers cash.  The typical reaction seems to be disbelief when asked for something almost $10 for a fairly short trip up the road - though most of that is the card fee and the rest gives you at least two hours of unlimited travel should you require it.  Another typical reaction is "I'll take a taxi - it's cheaper!"  And sometimes it is.

We may be headed for a "summer of discontent" unless single-use ticketing is enabled before the main tourist season arrives.  If London with almost 2 billion passenger journeys a year can do it successfully (which they do - cash taken at all points of entry) then so can the much less busy Melbourne networks.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
There is NO reason why Myki can't offer short term tickets. 'The system' seemed to work well in tandem with the Myki plastic cards whilst we had the short term ticket option.
And the interesting thing is, no-one from Myki, or any organisation even remotely connected with Myki or the business, have been able to give the travelling public a valid reason as to why short term Myki tickets were withdrawn from sale.

Not having short term tickets antagonises two or three groups of people:
(1) those who ony want to make 1 or 2 trips in their life time, and
(2) bus drivers who bear the brunt of people who get sh***y when they are told they need to cough up the price of a Myki card before they can buy a ticket and travel.

And I have heard a couple of anecdotal stories of families who otherwise never use public transport, deciding that they will indeed take the kids out for the day and use public transport, and rocking up to the train station only to find that someone has to shell out ~$20+ for Myki cards even before they buy their fares, and they ultimately decide to go home and drive to where-ever they are going to.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
There is NO reason why Myki can't offer short term tickets.
"xxxxlbear"


There is one very good reason why it can't;  it wouldn't be bureaucrat-friendly, and that what's it's designed to be.
Any help to tourists would just be an incidental unpleasantness.

Quite some months ago when this same query was raised, we had our local Myki Apologist posting that the $6.00 tourist Myki package has proved to be "very popular".  That was about as stupid as saying that Metro trains have been popular. In both cases you have no choice; there's only one brand.
  XAM2175 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Glasgow
And the interesting thing is, no-one from Myki, or any organisation even remotely connected with Myki or the business, have been able to give the travelling public a valid reason as to why short term Myki tickets were withdrawn from sale.
xxxxlbear
That's because the decision to remove the short-term ticket option was a political decision, not a technical one.
Expecting to hear anything from Kamco or TTA (which is part of PTV now) is a futile exercise anyway because they're do what the DoT tells them to do.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Expecting to hear anything from Kamco or TTA (which is part of PTV now) is a futile exercise anyway because they're do what the DoT tells them to do.
"jb17kx"


Wouldn't you just like to see a Minister for Transport and a Minister for Tourism who had the balls to stand up to the bureaucrats, and tell them that a day ticket, suitable for tourists, will be introduced within 6 months or heads will roll.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Wouldn't you just like to see a Minister for Transport and a Minister for Tourism who had the balls to stand up to the bureaucrats, and tell them that a day ticket, suitable for tourists, will be introduced within 6 months or heads will roll.
Valvegear

Because they don't want people using public transport - haven't you figured it out yet!  In fact the less people who use it, the better because that adds justification for that $9 billion truck sewer.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
And here's me thinking that a good public transport ticketing system was about making it as simple, or user friendly, for the travelling public as possible.
Obviously with Myki, my way of thinking is wrong Confused
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Because they don't want people using public transport - haven't you figured it out yet!  In fact the less people who use it, the better because that adds justification for that $9 billion truck sewer.
"don_dunstan"


And here's me thinking that a good public transport ticketing system was about making it as simple, or user friendly, for the travelling public as possible. Obviously with Myki, my way of thinking is wrong.
"xxxxlbear"


Unfortunately for Victoria, you are both spot on.

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