Sydney Light Rail Extension

 
  bambul Station Master

Location: Sydney
mentioned on Twitter:

T4NSW has advised that S-E light rail will have shallow tunnel in Moore Park and under Anzac Pde and possible grade separation at Lang Road.
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  8603 Locomotive Driver

Location: Canberra
I'm curious to see what they do at crossing of South Dowling Street, Anzac Parade intersection south of Lang Road (where the light rail will somehow cross from the current right-of way to the middle of Anzac Parade) and the Kingsford roundabout.
  dat581 Chief Train Controller

Location: The Shire
I'm curious to see what they do at crossing of South Dowling Street, Anzac Parade intersection south of Lang Road (where the light rail will somehow cross from the current right-of way to the middle of Anzac Parade) and the Kingsford roundabout.
8603

I'd say the scrubber car from the Tramway Museum at Loftus may get another run, it was used on the on street sections of the SLR and it's a win-win for Loftus and the new system. The old car gets a run and generates some publicity. Also the government won't need to buy a new vehicle to do the job. It wouldn't surprise me if they still own the old scrubber car somehow anyway.
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

Last week, the stanchions heads were installed, viewed at Constitution Rd.
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

If you view the line from Davis St looking south, near Waratah Mills, it looks a lot like a tramway already!
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

Any updates???
When are the trams going to be tested on that line and when are the new trams going to be tested?
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
I don't see the connection between wheel chair accessible buses and the physical infrastructure to allow level boarding for trams. Buses can "kneel" down to meet the footpath level, most of our buses do that to (Metlink claims that 70% of bus services are wheelchair accessible), but a tram cannot (ok, one exception, the Austrian ULF), you need both low floor trams and ~300mm platforms to allow for wheelchair accessibility.
scrat
Buses are made to kneel simply by venting the air springs, a feature of a suspension type that, I gather, was already in use on high floor buses. Also, even if trams could kneel, they would still require accessible infrastructure, the only difference is that the platforms could be a tad lower.

All trams ordered/borrowed since the last B2 are accessible. If you required modified footpaths as well as low floor buses do you think Sydney's buses would be as accessible as they are? The infrastructure changes are expensive and take time. Yarra Trams claims to have installed a new platform stop every 8 days, since 2004, and they don't really seem to be slowing down (contrary to the other thread asking if the program has stalled).
Scrat
On the flipside; If a platform had been installed every 8 days since 1994, do you think that Melbourne's trams would be as accessible as buses are now?
  KymN Assistant Commissioner
  scrat Assistant Commissioner

Location: Fitzroy North
On the flipside; If a platform had been installed every 8 days since 1994, do you think that Melbourne's trams would be as accessible as buses are now?
Myrtone
No, basic mathematics should prove that to you. If one stop was build every eight days for the last twenty years, we would have 913 accessible stops, out of a network of ~1700 stops that is about half, which is less than 70%-80%. And we would still only have about 30% of the fleet low floor.

Liam.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Okay let's say we built on average one platform stop every eight days since the light rail conversion, how many platforms stops would we have? What, in detail is the mathematics that prove this?
  scrat Assistant Commissioner

Location: Fitzroy North
Okay let's say we built on average one platform stop every eight days since the light rail conversion, how many platforms stops would we have? What, in detail is the mathematics that prove this?
Myrtone
Ok, the lightrail was done in '88, that's 25 years. At one stop every eight days that would be ~45.5 per year, so ~1137 stops in 25 years. Out of ~1700 stops that is still only ~67%, which is less than the 100% of stops on the bus network that are accessible, and we would still only have about 20% of the fleet accessible, which - yet again - is less than the bus network, which now has about 80% of peak services utilising low floor accessible buses.

But you're missing the point. With buses only the vehicle needs to be accessible, so with natural turnover of vehicles it's quite easy to do in about 25 years (as Melbourne and Sydney are proving). Trams on the other hand require both stops AND vehicles, so the natural turnover of vehicles alone will not create an accessible fleet, add to that the longer life of trams (the Zs are almost 40) and the issue becomes bigger. I don't know of a city world wide with a legacy system that has an accessible system -  it's a much bigger challenge than making a bus network accessible.

Liam.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
You asked whether Sydney's buses would be accessible as they are now if they required modified footpaths, so I thought I'd look at the flipside.
The actual point while Sydney buses may run along the same roads as the old tram routes, the buses don't stop in the same places, the trams they had orginially stopped in the middle of the road, while the buses that replaced them have ever since stopped next to the kerb. With buses, all the stops were already accessible when the low floor buses were introduced, and in theory had been long before, boarding was from sidewalk level, so as long as the floors are at the same height above road level, at least whenever the doors are open (kneeling lowers the floor), level boarding is guaranteed. But level boarding between a tram and a traditional mid street stop cannot happen no matter how low the tram floor is above TOR, also the minimum practical tram floor height is 300mm TOR, slightly higher than sidwalk level while the floor of a bus, with bus suspension lowered, can be the same as sidwalk level, nevertheless some bus stops in other parts of the world have had modifications to kerbs to improve docking at stops. As far an accessible legacy system, it seems that Olso has platforms at most or all stops.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
One of the new CAF trams has just arrived and as of a short while ago was being rolled onto the tracks.
  dat581 Chief Train Controller

Location: The Shire
I saw the story and she doesn't look to bad and the colour scheme even matched the truck! Typical piss poor report though the reporter had to sneer down their nose at people who had turned out to see the new tram. Hope they paint up one of the new trams in green and cream with a black stripe along with red on the bottom as a nod to the old system.
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

I saw the story and she doesn't look to bad and the colour scheme even matched the truck! Typical piss poor report though the reporter had to sneer down their nose at people who had turned out to see the new tram. Hope they paint up one of the new trams in green and cream with a black stripe along with red on the bottom as a nod to the old system.
dat581
I hope so too! Smile Could you post a link of the report?

Thanks
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
SMH has a map and article about the new Light Rail to Randwick and Kingsford.

See: http://smh.digitaleditions.com.au/olive/ode/smh_daily/
  lunchbox Locomotive Driver

All I got from that link was an invitation to subscribe to the Herald !
The last of the current exhibitions on the Central - South-East Light Rail (CSELR) is at the Adina Apartment Hotel, 359 Crown St Surry Hills, 4pm till 8pm, Monday 9 September.
The report in Saturday's (7.9.13) Herald was pathetic - certainly NOT "investigative" journalism.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
All I got from that link was an invitation to subscribe to the Herald !

You are right. SMH does not seem to allow you to create such a link to SMH of 7 Sep 2013, p7.

Drat.

Do any other papers allow you to do this?
  edison Chief Commissioner

Has everyone else overlooked one sentence in the SMH piece of 7/9/13, where it said that, in the 1 km pedestrian-only bit of George St, the trams would get their power from the track (whatever that means - stud contacts in the road?) rather than from overhead wires.
The cost of installing such a device, compared to OHW, does not bear thinking about.
If it is for aesthetic reasons, who's going to notice, or care?
Has any O/S city done this?
  dat581 Chief Train Controller

Location: The Shire
Several overseas cities use ground power systems for their trams mostly in areas where overhead wires are perceived to be an ugly intrusion. Bordeaux in France is a prime example with their APS system. 'Alimentation par Sol' or ground power in English uses a central rail flush with the ground for skates under the tram to pick up the power. The general idea is that the rail is only powered when the tram is over it so the public are not endangered by a 750V conductor that they can walk on. This link tells the whole story:

http://citytransport.info/Bod.htm

Modern overhead is not very noticeable but it doesn't take much to prod joe public that we need the ground power system so we don't have 'ugly" overhead on George Street. I quite like overhead myself but most people don't see trams or trains the way we do.
  KymN Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Several overseas cities use ground power systems for their trams mostly in areas where overhead wires are perceived to be an ugly intrusion. Bordeaux in France is a prime example with their APS system.  
dat581
One of the early media reports stated that the trams would be battery powered, recharging at stops.  Later reports described something more like the APS system, which seems more credible.

Clarification: The report stated battery powered in the pedestrian section of George Street and between there and the Quay. Minor charge at intermediate stops. Full charge at terminus.  
Here is one report I found since:
http://mobile.news.com.au/national-news/nsw-act/sydney8217s-new-light-rail-system-will-feature-futuristic-wirefree-trams-to-ensure-clutterfree-streets/story-fnii5s3x-1226714773633
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

Battery charged trams???

Never going to happen in my opinion!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The gain does seem to be really marginal - there's a few kilometres of wire-free operation through Sydney city in exchange for making the trams much heavier with batteries (which in themselves will be an additional maintenance burden).  Not worth it in my opinion.  Anyway, if you look at some of the new catenary installations in Melbourne you are hardly even aware of their presence.
  KymN Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Battery charged trams???

Never going to happen in my opinion!
Silver S Set
Evidently they exist.  See:
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/nice-trams/

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