Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
you'd make the $6 card cost back in only a handful of VLine trips. I get that eventually making back the cost of the 'compulsory' card isn't the point, but really the VLine myki fares are a bargain. Just saying.
"bramt"

All very nice, but when I'm a tourist, I don't want the inconvenience of buying a $6 card, topping up, and then getting "bargain fares".
I want to rock up to the railway station and buy a ticket for one day - just as I have in Sydney, Frankfurt, Berlin, Paris and Singapore in the past two years. I want convenience and to hell with your Myki bargain.

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  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Exactly.  

This "best fares" spiel we get trotted out applied just as much to Metcard.  You got a better price per trip the more you prepaid.  A weekly was cheaper than 7 x  Daily which in turn was cheaper than 12 x 12-hours.

I might be able to save a few cents - sometimes even a few dollars - here and there but I also ask for the convenience of a walk-up system and pay-as-you-enter.
  GlennGarry Beginner

Is there any alternative routes? So that it becomes more easy for all of us to reach Melbourne at time...
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
All very nice, but when I'm a tourist, I don't want the inconvenience of buying a $6 card, topping up, and then getting "bargain fares".
I want to rock up to the railway station and buy a ticket for one day - just as I have in Sydney, Frankfurt, Berlin, Paris and Singapore in the past two years. I want convenience and to hell with your Myki bargain.
Valvegear

EXACTLY!!
That's what I've been talkin' about!
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I think we're voices crying in the wilderness, Bear. I've been on it the same as you have.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I think we're voices crying in the wilderness, Bear. I've been on it the same as you have.
Valvegear

And I get the strange feeling that all we are doing is hitting our heads against a brick wall Rolling Eyes

The interesting thing is...I was part of the year long Myki panel that recently finished up (I guess the Myki hierachy finally had a gut full of all the complaints and closed the panel down).
Every week I was asked to fill in their survey, and I said the same thing, that short term tickets are needed, especially on trams, and now buses. And that the upfront charge for a Myki card be refundable upon return of a card in excellent condition to Myki, so short term users such as tourists aren't out of pocket.
Do you think they listened?

Hey, at least I received a $20 gift card for Coles every few weeks for doing their blasted surveys Laughing
  bramt Deputy Commissioner

Exactly.  

This "best fares" spiel we get trotted out applied just as much to Metcard.  You got a better price per trip the more you prepaid.  A weekly was cheaper than 7 x  Daily which in turn was cheaper than 12 x 12-hours.

I might be able to save a few cents - sometimes even a few dollars - here and there but I also ask for the convenience of a walk-up system and pay-as-you-enter.
Gwiwer
Of course the myki fares for metro zone 1/2 are the same as a multi trip metcard. I was talking about VLine. There's no way to make back the cost of your myki on metro zone 1/2, as there's no other option!

The time based automatic daily cap, and touching on after 6pm=rest of day travel rules are new to VLine.

And it's a lot more than a few cents. If you travel Bendigo - SCS return, and depart after 6pm:
VLine fare: 2x$18.90=$37.80 (off-peak)
myki fare: $18.90. Return trip is free as it's after 6pm.
Saving: $18.90
Not saying it's a popular journey (of course it's not, otherwise it wouldn't be free!). But I have done it in the past, and sure wish I had myki then. Possibly one of the few times I've ever thought that....
Another, more likely journey, is to queue up to buy a peak return ticket in Bendigo in the morning, but miss it coming home, and take a later off-peak train instead.
VLine fare: 2x$27.00 (peak)=$54
myki: $27+18.90 (peak+off peak)= $45.90
Saving: $8.10

My point is, you can save much much more than the $6 card cost, on the very day you get it. If you don't live in Bendigo, it might take a little longer to make the difference...maybe 2 or 3 days even.

If you aren't interested in that, you can always walk up to the ticket office at the VLine station and buy your ticket there. And at this point it doesn't matter if they decide to keep paper tickets on for VLine or not: as a irregular 'I don't care give me a ticket' user, what does it matter if you have to pay an extra $6 above the  'discounted' fare other commuters pay?
(excluding unstaffed VLine stations - I'm unfamiliar with how those users currently get tickets. Is it just from the conductor on the train?)
And I already agree about short term tickets on trams.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
You never know .........

There was the issue of tram TVMs not selling daily Metcards meaning those who wanted one had to make other arrangements often needing to catch the tram to reach the nearest retail outlet which was plain daft.

In due course the gumming caved in to public pressure and had the TVMs altered to sell dailies.  Allegorically fare evasion dropped slightly as a result.  In reality there were fewer reports issued for non-compliance to passengers trying to buy a daily on a tram.

We may yet find that single-use / short trip tickets are reinstated and that the card fees are either waived or the charging altered to be a refundable bond.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Unstaffed stations where Myki operates should have a top-up machine.  But what of cross-boundary trips?  You can top up at Tallarook and use Myki to anywhere in the Melbourne - Geelong zones but the conductor won't issue you a paper ticket any more.  No Myki no travel.

But if I board at Tallrook to travel to Euroa (which I occasionally do) by changing at Seymour then I am expected to use Myki to Seymour then purchase another ticket.  Convenience fail.  The sum of the two is greater than the previous Tallarook - Euroa fare.  Not by much but out of the window goes the "best fare" concept.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
xxxxlbear: I was invited to a focus group once and you had a do an on-line survey the day before regarding your opinion on a 'big four' bank.  Subsequently they changed their minds at the last moment because I had the 'wrong' attitudes (I said in the pre-attendance survey that they were institutional thieves). I only volunteered for it because there was the promise of $60 Coles voucher for 4 hours attendance; I stopped bothering with those things not long after - I think those market research groups often go shopping for the 'right' opinions anyway so it's not a true reflection of public opinions.

Gwiwer: My local (state) member is a marginal Liberal and even a year out from the election he's been busy sending me unsolicited love letters.  If I ever see him again I'll be giving him an earful about this totally user-unfriendly ticketing system as well as the failure to deliver on every single public transport promise made by Ted Baillieu at the last election... not to mention the unwanted East-West truck sewer.  You never know, they might even change their minds given they've ALREADY GOT all this equipment sitting on pallets in a warehouse.

Also, is that right about needing to have a Myki for travel to Geelong? You can't catch a train with cash any longer if you are at an unstaffed station?
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Also, is that right about needing to have a Myki for travel to Geelong? You can't catch a train with cash any longer if you are at an unstaffed station?
don_dunstan

Rightly or not that is what the conductors on the trains are saying.  I understand it should still be possible to pay cash and it is still possible to purchase and use paper tickets for non-Myki journeys (my Myki avoidance technique is currently to buy a paper ticket from Euroa to Tallarook and back and not the other way around).

There were some staff dispensing the wrong information when Myki readers first went into buses.   Several drivers on what was then my local route turned the validator off and asked everyone to place their Metcard onto "the new thing" which was of course inactive and an incorrect process.

There may be an unofficial regime of simply refusing cash on board on the grounds that one is "supposed" to have a Myki to travel.  Irrespective of the fact that it is not possible to purchase one in Tallarook; the nearest location is in Seymour which requires travelling by train first .....
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
xxxxlbear: I was invited to a focus group once and you had a do an on-line survey the day before regarding your opinion on a 'big four' bank.  Subsequently they changed their minds at the last moment because I had the 'wrong' attitudes (I said in the pre-attendance survey that they were institutional thieves). I only volunteered for it because there was the promise of $60 Coles voucher for 4 hours attendance; I stopped bothering with those things not long after - I think those market research groups often go shopping for the 'right' opinions anyway so it's not a true reflection of public opinions.
Gwiwer: My local (state) member is a marginal Liberal and even a year out from the election he's been busy sending me unsolicited love letters.  If I ever see him again I'll be giving him an earful about this totally user-unfriendly ticketing system as well as the failure to deliver on every single public transport promise made by Ted Baillieu at the last election... not to mention the unwanted East-West truck sewer.  You never know, they might even change their minds given they've ALREADY GOT all this equipment sitting on pallets in a warehouse.

Also, is that right about needing to have a Myki for travel to Geelong? You can't catch a train with cash any longer if you are at an unstaffed station?
don_dunstan

I had the idea in the back of mind after a while too that whoever in Myki was only after the opinions that they wanted to hear. There were many comments on the Myki panel web site about dissatisfaction in regards to the elimination of short term tickets, and the responses by the moderator left alot to be desired. In the end, I was really only going through the motions of filling in the weekly surveys just to get the $20 gift card rewards...in comparison to to other survey web sites, the Myki panel rewards were extremely easy to earn.

With V/Line travel, you have a choice in regard to what daily ticket you buy. You can either buy a paper ticket as usual, or you can use a Myki card. I am not sure what happens in regard to boarding at an unstaffed station that is nowhere near a Myki retail outlet, such as Little River. The conductor used to sell tickets onboard the train, but I believe that this is no longer the case.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I had the idea in the back of mind after a while too that whoever in Myki was only after the opinions that they wanted to hear.
"xxxxlbear"

As Sir Humphrey said to Jim Hacker, "Minister, never hold an enquiry without knowing what the answer is."
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I had the idea in the back of mind after a while too that whoever in Myki was only after the opinions that they wanted to hear.
xxxxlbear
I'm positive it was the bureaucrats who only wanted to hear a certain thing.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Yep, I agree with you both on that point! Very Happy
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Revenue stated many pages ago (might even have been back in "Myki 2") that while London has the Rolls Royce of systems in Oyster we have the Holden Barina (or similar).  
Gwiwer
Holden Barina?  They wish.  More like a rusty Datsun 120Y with an oil leak in the gear box blowing smoke everywhere.  The kind of car you're embarrassed to admit is yours.  A parking ticket would write it off.

As Sir Humphrey said to Jim Hacker, "Minister, never hold an enquiry without knowing what the answer is."
Valvegear
This is probably the best quote from the whole series, and it's still hilarious after, what, thirty years?  And it's quite pertinent when it comes to Myki, they don't want to know.  It's also a big clue as to why organisations like the Monash Accident Research Centre get recurrent funding every year, they come up with recommendations and research paradigms that the State Government loves to hear so they keep getting money ("More speed cameras", "People need to drive safer cars so it's their fault when they die in a car without airbags" and "Keep going with your existing road safety strategy, it's brilliant").
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Okay, I caught a Ballarat train tonight and I saw the conductor get his little pad out and take cash for someone who got on at an intermediate station so certainly at the moment it's still being done, even on the Myki sectors.  Common sense prevails, at least for the time being.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Tomorrow, i am doing a bit of cross-country travel with V/Line.
I am travelling between Geelong and Malmsbury, and wanted to check how much I am expecting to pay.

I have just checked the PTV web site, and, using the Myki fare calculator, I am going to be charged $15.80 for a concession return (peak) for travel in zones 1-7, yet V/Line says that my fare will be $28.40.
That is one hell of a difference...I'd just like to know which one is right so I can top up my card before I leave Geelong with the right amount of credit Confused
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Tomorrow, i am doing a bit of cross-country travel with V/Line.
I am travelling between Geelong and Malmsbury, and wanted to check how much I am expecting to pay.

I have just checked the PTV web site, and, using the Myki fare calculator, I am going to be charged $15.80 for a concession return (peak) for travel in zones 1-7, yet V/Line says that my fare will be $28.40.
That is one hell of a difference...I'd just like to know which one is right so I can top up my card before I leave Geelong with the right amount of credit Confused
xxxxlbear
V/Line does not indicate whether the fare is for a paper ticket or myki, but I suspect the former.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I was thinking the same thing too, railblogger.
I had in mind before I checked that there may have been a small fare difference in favour of Myki, maybe a couple of dollars, but not $12.60 Shocked
It seems such a huge price difference between what V/Line are charging and what Myki says they will charge.
Oh well, I'll pop $16 on my card before I travel and see how I go.
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
I was thinking the same thing too, railblogger.
I had in mind before I checked that there may have been a small fare difference in favour of Myki, maybe a couple of dollars, but not $12.60 Shocked
It seems such a huge price difference between what V/Line are charging and what Myki says they will charge.
Oh well, I'll pop $16 on my card before I travel and see how I go.
xxxxlbear

As it is zonal based, myki is considerably cheaper for trips travelling on V/Line from locations either side of Melbourne.

As you are travelling between Geelong and Malmsbury and return, myki should calculate your trip as a Zone 1-7 daily fare, off peak given its as Sunday, so total cost should be $11.06

The $28.40 fare quoted on the V/Line website is for a paper ticket.

So, a nice $17 saving! It's these sort of things V/Line/PTV should be advertising to passengers*; yes, there's a $6 upfront card purchase fee for those without a myki, but in this scenario, you would still be $11 ahead!



* - Yes, I know, there's not that many one line to another via Melbourne V/Line trips made
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
As it is zonal based, myki is considerably cheaper for trips travelling on V/Line from locations either side of Melbourne.

As you are travelling between Geelong and Malmsbury and return, myki should calculate your trip as a Zone 1-7 daily fare, off peak given its as Sunday, so total cost should be $11.06

The $28.40 fare quoted on the V/Line website is for a paper ticket.

So, a nice $17 saving! It's these sort of things V/Line/PTV should be advertising to passengers*; yes, there's a $6 upfront card purchase fee for those without a myki, but in this scenario, you would still be $11 ahead!



* - Yes, I know, there's not that many one line to another via Melbourne V/Line trips made
vlinecars
In addition, all concession fares are now charged at the off-peak rate on weekends when using Myki.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Really! Shocked
Off peak fares with Myki on V/Line on the weekends Shocked
Now that is another thing that Myki or V/Line hasn't promoted for V/Line Myki users Rolling Eyes

Just checked the PTV fare site, again, and....
Fares for all journeys in more than two zones on V/Line services receive a 30% off-peak discount, except where touch off occurs within Zone 1 before 9am on a business day or touch on occurs within Zone 1 between 4pm and 6pm on a business day. Customers must touch on and off to receive an off-peak fare.
PTV
PTV Web Site

This trip I am doing is turning from what was a very dear rural train trip, into a very inexpensive one YAY Very Happy
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
Really! Shocked
Off peak fares with Myki on V/Line on the weekends Shocked
Now that is another thing that Myki or V/Line hasn't promoted for V/Line Myki users Rolling Eyes

Just checked the PTV fare site, again, and....
PTV Web Site

This trip I am doing is turning from what was a very dear rural train trip, into a very inexpensive one YAY Very Happy
xxxxlbear
Unless patronage increases V/Line will not be a profitable under Myki. In Melbourne whilst numbers using public transport have increased profits have decreased as Myki provides new and novel ways for technical savvy commuters to avoid fares. On a number of occasions I have managed to travel back and forth from Ballarat for $6.23 touching on and off everywhere. A great saving at the weekend.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Victorian - indeed most of Australian - public transport does not run at a profit nor does it need to.  It is subsidised to the hilt via our taxes which I personally have no objection to.

On the other hand if we adopted the model of operators running what they felt to be commercially viable and at commercial fares (which can still include Myki or something similar) and the State only had to support those non-commercial ones which were socially desirable then we might find much more interest all round in actually operating a service rather than providing the stipulated trips in return for a guaranteed fee.

But that's another argument entirely.

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