A-City trains

 
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I am not entirely convinced I know where Morphett Vale starts and ends, but I am pretty certain you couldn't see the train line from it. That's not so strange on reflection, just the way reporting is done these days...
Aaron
It's a silly thing particular to Ten News that they do because it's a cheap and efficient way to fill up what is a quite large local news quota in a one hour bulletin, and  in places like Adelaide where the news is edited and presented interstate it also serves as a way to shore up their local news credentials. They'll use a live (or non-live) cross for anything and everything now even if the location has only tangential relevance to the story (something happening in the background like busy traffic is always a winner), at the expense of including more relevant footage.

My guess is that the actual live cross location was the corner of Main South Road and Beach Road, reasonably close and no less able to see the line than any other busy intersection that's geographically closer. The south-western corner of Morphett Vale is the Beach Road junction of the SExy by the way.

You never know though, it could have been somewhere closer but with the Morphett Vale caption coming from some technician in Melbourne using the maps on their phone to find Noarlunga and then zooming out to work out what the nearest 'major' location was for the caption. I just reproduced that scenario with both Apple and Google...





Channel 10 used the word 'secret' because it makes the story more appealing to the audience.

As does the often (mis)used term 'exclusive'
2001
Secret might be pushing it a little but still defensible as it was plainly the result of a leak or a chance spotting. If the department wanted it to be seen they would have invited media to access the Seaford depot and the Noarlunga platform, but they would have been insane to do that for the first run.

Exclusive is actually bang on in this case, as no other media outlets got it. Seven and Nine didn't get it (but they only have a half hour bulletin to fill), ABC doesn't do trivial items like that in the 7pm local bulletins and SBS only ever acknowledges the existence of South Australia during the Tour Down Under week.

Strange that the report came from Morphett Vale, too.    Was the news crew moved on?
kipioneer
No chance that the crew was moved on, see my above info about Ten's irrelevant live crosses which require noise and action in the background to prove they are locals. The department wouldn't have been interested in trying to move on a news cameraman because they wouldn't have gotten there in time to prevent the two shots needed, and the only reward for even trying would have been a big story about government censorship instead of a little story with a harmless picture of a train.

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  yoyoman Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Out again today - on the way home from work around 12.10-12.15pm the railcars were crossing the bridge at the northern end going slowly.
  opendoorz Locomotive Driver

Location: please mind the gap when alighting from the train
Spotted on a friends Facebook
[img]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa110/hdns/photo-8.jpg[/img]
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
Spotted this afternoon in Onkaparinga Recreational Park.








Alex C
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Wow, fantastic, thanks to all for these pics and the link to the Ch10 news story.  In relation to the Ten story, it's interesting that they chose to spin the story along the lines of a 'secret' test and in some respects I guess it really was a secret - as we were speculating previously they didn't want the media present in case something went wrong and there was no official announcement.  In either case, it's great news and I'm really looking forward to seeing the final product in full operation.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
A couple of pics from yesterday.
Nothing on the big bridge or at Noarlunga unfortunately:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfyjugh8253leg2/IMGP3358.JPG

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zmo5itc8xv3jtlj/IMGP3354.JPG
trainznbuses
Ah in one of those photos you can just make out the weigh of the power car.
It says:
Tare 48.7T Gross 66.0T
At least I think it's 66, too much sensor noise to be 100% sure.
So finally we know 2/3rds of the train weighs, just the trailer car is unknown
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
That Channel Ten live news cross might have to be done from there because it was the only place they could find a signal that was clear enough. We had them at Port Adelaide once and they kept shifting the ob van till they got a decent signal between it and the receiver at the other end. The Hills or something might have interfered with it.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Ah in one of those photos you can just make out the weigh of the power car.
It says:
Tare 48.7T Gross 66.0T
At least I think it's 66, too much sensor noise to be 100% sure.
So finally we know 2/3rds of the train weighs, just the trailer car is unknown
fabricator
66t is in the ballpark. It shouldn't be assumed both end cars are exactly the same though, the electronics modules are not duplicated at each end on a Bombardier EMU.

Each unit can take 540 passengers, one third of that is 180 (though the centre car will have a higher capacity than an end car) so if you assume a generous average of 80kg per person (yes, on a full train a fair few may be over that but many will also be kids well under that) including luggage then you get an extra 14.4t for a full load of 180 people. Add that to the tare mass of 48.7t and you get 63.1t, which leaves a generous fudge factor between that and the nominal gross mass of 66t.

48.7t tare for the end cars would seem to be a bit porky though, project that over all three cars with another 5t added for the transformer on the centre car and you get 151t for the whole unit. That's 31t more than the previous generation Bombardier EMU (the TransPerth B-Series), and while I know the body is a bit wider there is no way that should account for an extra 31t compared to the previous generation design.

We would have to be the only place in the world where the latest and greatest designs put on 25% extra weight. Operating vehicles the same weight as a DMU is going to smash the hell out of the tracks with the more intensive services and higher acceleration/braking performances expected, and being so heavy will inevitably make for rather underwhelming performance compared to other 25 kV EMUs elsewhere around Australia and the world.
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller
  xdford Chief Train Controller

...

48.7t tare for the end cars would seem to be a bit porky though, project that over all three cars with another 5t added for the transformer on the centre car and you get 151t for the whole unit. That's 31t more than the previous generation Bombardier EMU (the TransPerth B-Series), and while I know the body is a bit wider there is no way that should account for an extra 31t compared to the previous generation design.

We would have to be the only place in the world where the latest and greatest designs put on 25% extra weight. Operating vehicles the same weight as a DMU is going to smash the hell out of the tracks with the more intensive services and higher acceleration/braking performances expected, and being so heavy will inevitably make for rather underwhelming performance compared to other 25 kV EMUs elsewhere around Australia and the world...
justapassenger
I just looked up the Budd Silverliners in the Philadelphia area and their lightest car (a Silverliner 1) was 90,000 lbs or 45 short tons. IN fact they were the lightest transit cars in North America.  I have ridden these many years ago and like most Budd products, rode well as I recall. Subsequent models and variations were all heavier. I don't know how wide or tall the Perth cars are but the extra volume I think the weight would be normal for these with the extra width, volume etc would add logarithmically to the weight.

I remember dealing with many items costed on area and volume and  the extra few inches of length, width and sometime depth increased the cost dramatically, especially with as I recall photographic paper. The extra height and width may not seem much but is does also cause a similar increase...

Regards

Trevor
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Certainly not LRVs.

When there is such little interface with other heavy rail vehicles are such collision standards justified?

Ian
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Certainly not LRVs.

When there is such little interface with other heavy rail vehicles are such collision standards justified?

Ian
"steam4ian"

But Ian, there are many places that offer interfacing with heavy (and light) road vehicles.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Sadly, Tony, that is true.

But what about trams?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Thanks for the links to the videos, Waratah Train.  It appeared as though they were doing standing starts and testing acceleration?  Despite the additional weight on account of the extra crash-protection they do still appear to be rather good at taking off.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
I they are geared down at all. computer limited yes, but be very surprised if the traction gear varies hell of a lot from Perth's B cars or QR's 22x series.
  CLF6 Station Master

Just had an A or B segment go past my property (Strath-Goolwa Rd) at 9.10. 4002 I assume.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Just had an A or B segment go past my property (Strath-Goolwa Rd) at 9.10. 4002 I assume.
CLF6
From a reliable witness

Police escort car near Strath at 8:43 on the back of a truck is 4002B ...  Judging by its rate of progress at the depot probably around 11 am-midday.

Regards

Trevor
  Scooter_Guy Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA. Suburb: Redwood Park
A couple of pics from yesterday.
Nothing on the big bridge or at Noarlunga unfortunately:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfyjugh8253leg2/IMGP3358.JPG

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zmo5itc8xv3jtlj/IMGP3354.JPG
trainznbuses

Bigger & better pics!
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
To me the side of them looks like Brisbane's second generation IMUs and SMUs.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
And Perth's B train's they should be near identical "plant"
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Same company isn't it?  Am I right in thinking that Downer became Bombardier at some stage?  The finished product looks larger than the Perth B-series though, presumably larger loading gauges; B-series also has higher top speeds than the A-trains apparently.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Perth B are designed to run at 140 and the operating speed is 130 which is sustained over long distances. I understand that Adelaide 4000 are designed to run at 110.There are limited opportunities for sustained high speed on the Adelaide network.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

The QR 160/260 and the B-series were a joint project between what was called EDi Rail at the time and Bombardier. I think the work was roughly divided up into the bodies (the former Walkers factory operated by EDi at Maryborough) and the technical components (Bombardier, imported from Europe).

It wasn't a new collaboration though, Walkers (later absorbed by EDi) and the local operations of ABB (merged with Daimler-Benz Transportation to become AdTranz, which was then bought by Bombardier Transportation) had previously been partners on the A-Series and various QR multiple units.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Perth B are designed to run at 140 and the operating speed is 130 which is sustained over long distances. I understand that Adelaide 4000 are designed to run at 110.There are limited opportunities for sustained high speed on the Adelaide network.
62440
There would probably be no difference between the traction systems but rather in the control circuits. Electric motors these days are not really restricted like an internal combustion engine with "power bands" etc. An AC motor with a frequency inverter/controller can deliver maximum torque from 0 rpm to maximum rated speed. This means that the first thing that is going to fail is the traction between the tyres and the rails. If the control circuits are set up correctly then the railcar can maintain acceleration at maximum physically possible without wheel slip. The maximum railcar speed will then be governed by the controller. Another advantage of AC traction is an improvement in maximum friction coefficient effective for traction because there is no "switching" impulses caused by commutator contacts.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

nm39.
You are right about ac traction motors over dc but for the wrong reasons.

AC traction motors operate at just under the convertor frequency (electrical slip) and that means that all motors fed of the one invertor (all motors if the invertors are synchronised) operate at the same speed within 3-5%. this means wheel slip is not going to unload a motor or rob power from the other motors. Much like coupled wheels on a steam loco and some diesel mechanicals.

DC motors have series wound fields and the motor driving the slipping wheel set robs power from the other motors unless all the motors are connected in parallel. For a dc system is more difficult to have slip control; thankfully not impossible.

If commutation is introducing steps in torque or current there are serious problems with the motor. Loco dc traction motors are a different beast to the three or five pole motors used in hobby systems; there are equivalent to 20 to 30+ poles (count the number of commutator segments between brush centres).

The interesting fact is that maximum torque is transmitted to the rails when the wheel rim speed is about 4% greater than the rail speed. This why later generation DEs with advanced slip control can pull more than the first generation locos.  

Ian

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