The Newcastle Rail Line IS to be cut, announced 14 dec 2012

 
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

I predict tomorrow, their will be an anti-rail & cut the rail line ASAP article/s in the so called Newcastle Herald. And it will focus on the property council of australia (deliberate non caps)

And one of their reports may favour buses over trams "at first", sorry light rail (got to keep the PCB happy - NOT!)

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  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Let's see if I can type with both hands again at the moment.

The reason I said buses is that Ed Crawford, from the PCA (interesting how he the P stands for Property, but that he doesn't want anything on the rail land, like the developer mayor & gpt (that IS deliberate non-capitals, unlike my previous post)

See bottom part of this link: [size=2]http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1743370/bike-lane-hunter-street-plan-poll/?cs=305[/size]
  tezza Chief Commissioner

No room for a light railway down Hunter Street with this proposal for street improvements, things are looking good for the conversion of the railway easement into light railway at long last.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1743370/bike-lane-hunter-street-plan-poll/?cs=303
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Well, instead of cutting due to developer "influence", why not this, and that tram-trains sharing the tracks with trains continuing to Newcastle Station, maybe a bit slower, but speeded up elsewhere to make up for the slower speed.

I think Save Our Rail (SOR) supports something similar to that, but of course, we know what the developers are after. But I heard an interview where Tim Owen changed his mind again, and he mentioned something about cutting the line at Maitland. He mentioned something about he wants to get passenger trains off the freight lines. Sounds to me, he & his Greiner mate wants to close down ALL train services outside Sydney and/or Gosford.

Oh, and if you see the SOR website, you will see this notice here ([size=2]http://saveourrail.org.au/?p=648[/size] )

Oh yes, their is are videos of a heavy rail train going down a mall and street. Search for "Wexford Train".
See titles Wexford Train by jiltedpom, Intercity train passes through Wexford with no guard rails!! by Ryan Barker, and Wexford Quay New Train 2004 by shnookumlooks
  NotebookMan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wahroonga NSW
I just received an email from SOR. Joan Dawson is concerned about the move by the NSW Government to extend the definition of "railway" to include "light rail", because it seems to her to be connected with a desire to accelerate planning for the conversion of the Newcastle line to light rail.

Thinking about the rationale for this, I arrive at the following possibility:

If "light rail" is included under "railway", then replacing rail services between Newcastle and [watch this space] with light rail services could be deemed to be a change in the manner in which the line is operated, rather than the closure of a rail line and its replacement with light rail. In this case an act of parliament would not be required to close the rail line. For a Government that has spectacularly burned its alliance with the Shooters and Fishers in the upper house, and might struggle to pass a bill through there, this could represent a very useful loophole.

Are there any constitutional lawyers reading this thread? How would it be possible to oppose a tactic like this?
  NotebookMan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wahroonga NSW
Well, instead of cutting due to developer "influence", why not this, and that tram-trains sharing the tracks with trains continuing to Newcastle Station, maybe a bit slower, but speeded up elsewhere to make up for the slower speed.

I think Save Our Rail (SOR) supports something similar to that, but of course, we know what the developers are after. But I heard an interview where Tim Owen changed his mind again, and he mentioned something about cutting the line at Maitland. He mentioned something about he wants to get passenger trains off the freight lines. Sounds to me, he & his Greiner mate wants to close down ALL train services outside Sydney and/or Gosford.

Oh, and if you see the SOR website, you will see this notice here ([size=2]http://saveourrail.org.au/?p=648[/size] )

Oh yes, their is are videos of a heavy rail train going down a mall and street. Search for "Wexford Train".
See titles Wexford Train by jiltedpom, Intercity train passes through Wexford with no guard rails!! by Ryan Barker, and Wexford Quay New Train 2004 by shnookumlooks
Newcastle Express
Cutting the line at Maitland? Are you sure that's what you mean?

Cutting services beyond Maitland, on the other hand, meaning Scone, Muswellbrook and Dungog (but not Telarah (perhaps if we're lucky)), is definitely a popular idea with ARTC. It is precisely those sectors where Cityrail (as it was) services conflict with coal and other freight trains.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

That's interesting NotebookMan.

Cutting the line at Maitland? Are you sure that's what you mean?

Cutting services beyond Maitland, on the other hand, meaning Scone, Muswellbrook and Dungog (but not Telarah (perhaps if we're lucky)), is definitely a popular idea with ARTC. It is precisely those sectors where Cityrail (as it was) services conflict with coal and other freight trains.
NotebookMan
NotebookMan, from the way Tim Owen spoke, he gave a suggestion of cutting it on the Newcastle side of Maitland, not as you have stated in the quote above.

Tim Owen mentioned something in the interview that he wants to get passenger trains off the freight lines, and then he went on to mention something about trying to make a decision of where to cut the rail line, and he brought up Maitland as an alternative for some reason.

Edit-1: I've just been to this ([size=2]http://planspolicies.planning.nsw.gov.au/index.pl?action=view_job&job_id=6112[/size]) section of the NSW Planning website, and found this:-
The proposed State Environmental Planning Policy (Infrastructure) Amendment (Light Rail) 2013 (the draft SEPP) will amend the State Environmental Planning Policy (Infrastructure) 2007 (Infrastructure SEPP) to clarify planning pathways related to light rail by including light rail purposes within the definition of rail infrastructure facilities.
NSW Planning
In the link in the edit, their are three PDF links.

Edit-2: If I'm reading the documents correctly, I believe that she may be correct.
Sounds fishy to me.

Edit-3: I have just noticed that the third link is missing page 2. Why?
  NotebookMan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wahroonga NSW
That's interesting NotebookMan.

NotebookMan, from the way Tim Owen spoke, he gave a suggestion of cutting it on the Newcastle side of Maitland, not as you have stated in the quote above.

Tim Owen mentioned something in the interview that he wants to get passenger trains off the freight lines, and then he went on to mention something about trying to make a decision of where to cut the rail line, and he brought up Maitland as an alternative for some reason.
Newcastle Express
I can't find any hits on Google when I search for Tim Owen cutting anything at Maitland, which is one reason why I questioned the wording. I must say that the idea of retaining rail passenger services between Maitland and Scone/Dungog, but eliminating them between Maitland and [Woodville Junction plus whatever], seems a totally absurd use of the four track section. I would not be prepared to accuse any ratbag politician of such a thing without hard evidence of what was actually said.

I have looked through all rail topics listed on the 1233 ABC Newcastle website back to and beyond the change of Government in NSW. Very few have full recordings of interviews, and all the text versions are selective quotes. There is a full transcript of Aaron Kearney's interview with Maitland council's Bob Geoghegan on 27/03/2012, with a lead-in excerpt from a recorded interview that Tim Owen gave Kearney the previous day. Kearney then goes on to suggest that passengers to Newcastle may find themselves getting onto a tram-train "perhaps at Maitland, but at least at Wickham". Kearney attributed this idea to "scuttlebutt" from state Liberal and National members keen to retain some form of rail transport into Newcastle. "Tram-train" sounds like a rehash of the idea dating from the Warabrook interchange proposal, using diesel powered trams (originally converted Hunter railcars). There is no recording of the Owen interview attached to the report on the 1233 website from 26/03/2012, and no reference to Maitland in the selective quotes in the text of that report.

The other reports that I found with full recordings are Brad Hazzard with Kearney on 14/12/2012, and Jodi MacKay with Paul Bevan on 28/05/2009. There are no other Owen interviews that would appear to suggest interchange at Maitland.

Even if Kearney was using Owen's actual words from 26/03/2012, this does not amount to "cutting the line at Maitland" as you wrote. That would imply removing rail tracks on one side of Maitland or the other.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

NotebookMan, it was only just a few weeks ago.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

The act which governs closing rail lines has it's own definition of Railway Iirc.  I think they would need to amend the relevant transport act to do it,  which some of the NWrl bills did to include metros
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Jodi Mckay is the bimbo who wanted to save the post office from investers so it could become office space, thing is she had no budget to do such a thing.
These are the people in charge of Newcastle, rejuvinate my left testicle.
  Zodiac Junior Train Controller

Location: The Never Never
I was born and bread in Newcastle in the early 60's. I can recall Hunter Street as it was then being a vibrant, busy and bustling place of business.
Roll forward to a couple of weeks ago when I visited my old home town after an absence of 20 years or more.
I naturally caught a train from Sydney to Newcastle and walked up the hill on Watt Street, past the Great Northern Hotel and then right into Hunter Street, it will never be the Hunter Mall to me.
Now walking down the Mall past Bolton Street, Newcomen Street, Morgan Street, Thorn Street and stopping at Wolfe Street.
My reaction ?
What a dump.
The main street of my old home town is nothing but a kilometre of $2 shops and empty premises.
It looks like Warsaw in 1944. Dark, dingy, run down and squalid.
Absolutely nothing inviting or attractive in the whole strip.
It was almost unrecognisable.
What a dump, what a tragedy.
Another part of a city ruined by the "Mall".
Is there actually any "Malls" that have worked "
Penrith ripped theirs up after 20 years because of the urban decay it started.
Liverpool did the same after "Malling" the main drag was nothing more than inviting crime to come visit.
People simply do not want to park and walk half a kilometre to shop. They want to park outside the shop they want and walk 10 metres inside.
The only thing Malls have been good for is crime and emptying shops very very quickly.
Lets face it, if McDonalds have bailed out of the Hunter Street Mall, what chance does any other retailer have ?
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Zodiac, the mall has been opened to traffic with a 10 kmh speed limit east to west.

Also when buses replaces trains, the Newcastle Station Kiosk reduces their hours, quite considerably.

And their is a petition at the kiosk, and they've said that they keep having to replace it with a new lot because of how many have signed it.

If you go to my PlatformONE Youtube account, and click on the Newcastle Rail line, you will note something.
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
In terms of malls, it isn't really the "Hunter Mall" that is to blame here.  The malls responsible are further afield - Kotara, Charlestown, Glendale, Green Hills...

"High street" retail has struggled to compete with the rise of the major shopping centres in nearly every city in Australia, including most capital cities.  

Newcastle might be a little worse off because of things like damage from the 1989 earthquake, the rise of IT systems that made the role of the regional branch office for banks, etc, redundant and its increasing demographic irrelevance to the region as a whole.
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:

Is there actually any "Malls" that have worked "

People simply do not want to park and walk half a kilometre to shop. They want to park outside the shop they want and walk 10 metres inside.
The only thing Malls have been good for is crime and emptying shops very very quickly.
Zodiac

I think you are confusing cause and effect.  There are plenty of very successful malls in lots of cites where the culture is appropriate.  Eg Pitt Street Mall Sydney, Bourke Street Mall Melbourne, Rundle Mall Adelaide, Queen Street Mall Brisbane, and others in decent cities like Ballarat, Launceston, Bendigo, etc etc.

If there are decent services and community pride then people don't have to drive to the door of a $2 shop.
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
I predict tomorrow, their will be an anti-rail & cut the rail line ASAP article/s in the so called Newcastle Herald. And it will focus on the property council of australia (deliberate non caps)

And one of their reports may favour buses over trams "at first", sorry light rail (got to keep the PCB happy - NOT!)
"Newcastle Express"



I predict that you are full of hot air.

It has been nearly a years since your sensationalist titling of this thread and despite you banging on about sod all there has NOT been any announcement of a date at which this branch line will cliose.
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

Another stupid thing is the government is just obsessed with politics. One politician says light rail down here, and it is a good idea, his opposition will say no just for  political competitions. At least John Robertson is not so much like that anymore.
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
Does anyone think it is time to change the title of this thread given it is 9 months since it was first set up?
  tezza Chief Commissioner

Aticle in todays Newcastle Herald regarding the proposed Light Railway.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1783459/opinion-light-rail-could-go-either-way/
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

That article does show a positive light on it, but in the real world, the funds will never become available and it would take 20 years to implement because Newcastle is not Sydney.
  NotebookMan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wahroonga NSW
This opinion piece reveals an element of the case for light rail that has not been articulated in so many words to my knowledge. The writer apparently assumes that if the corridor is converted to light rail, there is no need for remediation on those sections not designated as official crossing points (except for heavy rail tracks not intended for reuse in the vicinity of Newcastle station). The estimate for remediation in such studies as AECOM (2010), less the proportion of track not to be remediated, then becomes a virtual subsidy against the construction cost of light rail.

I have a query as to whether remediation is necessary for any part of the corridor to which free access for the public is allowed, including crossings over track converted to light rail. The vision for Newcastle often suggests that ideally no part of the rail corridor should be a barrier to public access, as this would hinder public circulation between the harbour and the shops / within the education precinct / insert other pushable barrow here. My question is whether any light rail track not treated for remediation would need to be isolated from public access.

Even assuming that this works in favour of affordabiity of light rail, the Achilles heel of the idea, as always, is the interchange / heavy rail terminus. I am fascinated to know exactly where the writer thinks that there is space for a better interchange at Hamilton. Perhaps the place name is being used generically, and the Woodville triangle once again figures in calculations. Or perhaps the space formerly occupied by the sidings at Hamilton station comes into consideration, at the expense of the facilities constructed by Railcorp on the site, and also at the expense of the Beaumont Street crossing. None of this sounds like a recipe for saving money.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

True, trying to shoehorn a transport interchange at Hamilton Station does not sound feasable in anyones dreams.
The existing traffic is already a nightmare at that end of Beaumont street.
Woodville seems the logical place but it would involve a lot of coal and freight traffic going on around it.

Here's an idea. Just leave things as they are. I magically just saved $40mil with that brilliant idea. I wonder what I can come up with next? Maybe dont sell Newcastle Port as well? I'm on a roll now!
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Here's an idea. Just leave things as they are. I magically just saved $40mil with that brilliant idea. I wonder what I can come up with next? Maybe dont sell Newcastle Port as well? I'm on a roll now!
Showtime
But, but, but, but, Showtime, I am one of "those" developers and we demand that the state government sell that land to us, as we want that rail land for ourselves, as it is valuable real estate with views such as this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34023326@N02/9443621326.

That's why us developers don't want any thing on that rail land.

Us developers are rubbing our developer hands with glee, you know. Laughing
  NotebookMan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wahroonga NSW
Showtime, you saved a bit more than $40M. That wouldn't even buy you the Civic terminus in 1990 $A, with no requirement for an interchange (the punters for Newcastle were expected to walk the rest of the way). But nice try, you just need to sell the concept with numbers in the hundreds of millions. How many hundreds of millions? Depends how conscientious you are about remediation, for one thing.

NE (in character as property developer), you did fine except you forgot to characterise opponents of the rail cut as "do nothing party" supporters. The crying need for a "do nothing stupid party" has never been greater.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

notebookman, unfortunately we know what developers want.

And to prove it what some developers are after, the developers got their greedy hands on the Royal Newcastle Hospital, and demolished it, and put something else on it, then their is GPT getting their mits on Ferris Oval park.

Who gave our public servent permission to steal, um ur I mean sell our assets? That's like me say looking after a neighbour's car and then selling it, without the owners permission.

It's also interesting that GPT (wonder what G should stand for!) can't wait to get a train line to their Rouse Hill centre, yet want to get rid of the Newcastle train line. Nuhh, surely it's not due to the views in my picture?? Nuh, developers wouldn't do that, would theeey now?

PS: The next person that coughs near me, and gives me a cold, I should cough on them back, without putting MY hands over my mouth. See how they like it. oh ouch thump, thump, thump.

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