The saga of the Trainorama 44 class split wheel-sets

 
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)



So are we any closer to a solution to the problem yet??

"drib72"


No....I haven't heard anything from NWSL yet and Trainorama have been VERY quiet about if/when they will be making the new bogies available.

In the meantime, I have added thin slivers of styrene to the inside face of the bogies on one of my 44s, with a view to limiting the lateral play in the wheel sets, especially the fore and aft ones on each bogie; the centre axle not being as important. The jury is still out as to whether it is a worthwhile exercise, as I haven't conducted any "clinical trials" yet.

Roachie

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  drib72 Station Staff

Location: Under the radar
Thanks for the update Roachie......looks like I have 4 in need of a solution. Hopefully the 49 class won't develop the same problem as the 44's
  ahm Beginner

Judging by the lack of recent activity with this thread, it appears definition of the true defect seems elusive. Definition of an effective rectification of said defect seems equally challenging. Bogie replacement seems to be the panacea.

Despite Trainorama's best efforts, perhaps the lack of news re a factory fix is indicative of a lack of factory interest. Sadly we may have years to wait. A free or low cost rectification within a reasonable time is but a dream.

'Fitness for purpose' and 'merchantable quality' come to mind. Australian consumer law does not place a 'warranty' time limit on goods so regardless of when purchased, a return for refund of defective goods to a retailer (or manufacturer) is always possible within a 'reasonable time or use'. Even a receipt isn't necessary especially if  a single supplier. One or a thousand faulty units makes no difference to the fitness or merchantable test.

With 7 of 9 locos defective, I think I am entitled to describe the internals as being 'so very bad'. It is a fair bet that most if not all of the DE's have or will have the fault.

If an effective fix could be designed and proven locally (within Aus.), I for one would be prepared to contribute toward a sponsorship ... but with a depleted manufacturing sector and lack of fine scale engineering capability, it may be futile. I wonder if a local manufacturer might find it a viable project to build replacement bogies if there was sufficient pre-commitment by holders of faulty units. Has anyone including Trainorama been down this path?
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Judging by the lack of recent activity with this thread, it appears definition of the true defect seems elusive. Definition of an effective rectification of said defect seems equally challenging. Bogie replacement seems to be the panacea.

Despite Trainorama's best efforts, perhaps the lack of news re a factory fix is indicative of a lack of factory interest. Sadly we may have years to wait. A free or low cost rectification within a reasonable time is but a dream.

'Fitness for purpose' and 'merchantable quality' come to mind. Australian consumer law does not place a 'warranty' time limit on goods so regardless of when purchased, a return for refund of defective goods to a retailer (or manufacturer) is always possible within a 'reasonable time or use'. Even a receipt isn't necessary especially if  a single supplier. One or a thousand faulty units makes no difference to the fitness or merchantable test.

With 7 of 9 locos defective, I think I am entitled to describe the internals as being 'so very bad'. It is a fair bet that most if not all of the DE's have or will have the fault.

If an effective fix could be designed and proven locally (within Aus.), I for one would be prepared to contribute toward a sponsorship ... but with a depleted manufacturing sector and lack of fine scale engineering capability, it may be futile. I wonder if a local manufacturer might find it a viable project to build replacement bogies if there was sufficient pre-commitment by holders of faulty units. Has anyone including Trainorama been down this path?
ahm
It intrigues me that "somebody" can't make a replacement muff incorporating a wider-toothed gear cog. It is a simple plastic (?) part that has definite dimensions/specifications, but I'm obviously missing something in my thought processes.

The rest of the bogie is quite okay, so I don't understand why they keep saying they will get the manufacturer to make a whole pile of new bogies.

The only issue I have with the bogie itself is that I found it impossible to dismantle without damaging it....but other blokes (far more nibble-of-finger than I am obviously) seem to reckon that it can be achieved with a few flat toothpicks and holding one's tongue at a certain angle out of the corner of one's gob, whilst swinging a small bladed screwdriver!! hahaha

Roachie
  Captain Underpants Train Controller

No....I haven't heard anything from NWSL yet and Trainorama have been VERY quiet about if/when they will be making the new bogies available.
In the meantime, I have added thin slivers of styrene to the inside face of the bogies on one of my 44s, with a view to limiting the lateral play in the wheel sets, especially the fore and aft ones on each bogie; the centre axle not being as important. The jury is still out as to whether it is a worthwhile exercise, as I haven't conducted any "clinical trials" yet.
Roachie
Roachie

Hi Roachie,
It's been a couple of months since your last update. Any progress?

Cheers
Captain
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
No mate...nothing heard yet from NWSL.

I have just ordered a ball-bearing gearbox and uni-joint set from them too, so it might be a good opportunity to chase Dave up again.

Roachie
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
A bit of an oldie to dig up, but with a good reason.

Who's read the latest AMRM?

In it on page 52 there's a bit of bad news for those reading this thread with interest.

Trainorama GM Shorting Out
Since the completion of the review offense new Trainorama GM (Reviews section, p46 this issue) instances hate been reported where some locomotives shorted out when placed on the track.

The problem has been traced to an assembly glitch: in some cases the half axles have been pressed too far home in their central muff, so far that they make electrical contact.

The fix is very simple - simply ease the wheel sets gently apart with a small screwdriver blade until they are to the correct back to back (14.50mm or slightly more).
"AMRM October 2013, page 52"


So my question is: How long until these GMs are reported to have the same split muff, clicking issue seen on first run 44/930s?

I note Trainorama are 'working to fix the 44/930 issue', but it might be nice if they got their subsequent releases correct for release too.

Check your GMs people, and I am glad that due to the liveries and numbers run I elected not to get first run GMs...
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Hmmmm. that is disappointing indeed!

And before anybody asks......no, I haven't heard ANYTHING back from NWSL about what they may or may not be able to do to assist us. I have virtually given up on that idea now and will wait and see if the promised new bogies from Trainorama ever actually eventuate.

Roachie
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
A bit of an oldie to dig up, but with a good reason.

Who's read the latest AMRM?

In it on page 52 there's a bit of bad news for those reading this thread with interest.



So my question is: How long until these GMs are reported to have the same split muff, clicking issue seen on first run 44/930s?

I note Trainorama are 'working to fix the 44/930 issue', but it might be nice if they got their subsequent releases correct for release too.

Check your GMs people, and I am glad that due to the liveries and numbers run I elected not to get first run GMs...
Aaron

A railway I operate on has a clicking 'S', his is unusual in that his 930's are still OK, go figure.  His is the first clicking S that I have heard off and am a bit surprised that no others have been mentioned yet, I suppose somebodies has to be first though, unfortunately.

Wayne



Wayne
  Lloyd1952 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Sydney, Australia
Also on Page 52, some better news; AR Kits hope to have 44 Class mechanisms "suitable for use under Trainorama 44/930 class" at the Liverpool exhibition.

Lloyd
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Also on Page 52, some better news; AR Kits hope to have 44 Class mechanisms "suitable for use under Trainorama 44/930 class" at the Liverpool exhibition.

Lloyd
Lloyd1952
If I were in the position of owning a TOR 44 Class with the problem, I would far rather obtain replacement bogies than go to the trouble of fitting a whole new mechanism.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Also on Page 52, some better news; AR Kits hope to have 44 Class mechanisms "suitable for use under Trainorama 44/930 class" at the Liverpool exhibition.

Lloyd
"Lloyd1952"
If I were in the position of owning a TOR 44 Class with the problem, I would far rather obtain replacement bogies than go to the trouble of fitting a whole new mechanism.
"TheBlacksmith"
Yes, I read that too and my enthusiasm about matched that of TheBlacksmith, my (7) TrainOrama locomotives currently have no issues, but if someone made a replacement wheel set I'd probably consider buying the full 42 (or whatever number to suit my then current roster) axles, but there is no way I am going to buy a couple (or 7) spare mechs...
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
As has been stated all it really needs is a new muff made with a wider gear on it. Get God knows how many of them made and supply them to anyone with a Trainorama loco that clicks etc. If it comes with instructions on what to do then most of us would be able to do it and those that can't do it should be able to find someone to swap them over. Be a lot cheaper than all new bogies though. Be a lot easier as well to fix it, rather than having to remove a whole bogie and fit a replacement or a new mech under it.

One other thing I would have thought about the muff on the GM's etc I would have thought that there would be a solid  plastic divider in the centre of the muff to not only stop the ends of the axle touching one another and shorting out, but also to provide a bit of strength for the gear itself as they would take a fair strain at times.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

I do not think we will see replacement bogies from trainorama until they do a re-run of their 44 class as they have previously stated they would do a re-run with MK2 44 in reverse livery plus others.When that happens is anyones guess.Surely it is quicker and less complicated to just change out complete bogies rather than pull apart bogies to replace one gear.All you need to do is remove body unclip worm gear cover from bogie gear tower and unsolder 2 wires.I will have to check or if anyone knows if the 42/S/GM have same bogie design,S/42 have been out for a few years now so it seems odd no issues have surfaced with them compared to 44/930 if they are same design.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

So my question is: How long until these GMs are reported to have the same split muff, clicking issue seen on first run 44/930s?
Aaron
So if anyone brought these locomotives and the 44 Class within the last 12 months, both come with a warranty, and have found this happening, shouldn't people be taking them back to Toms' Hobbies for them to fix that, or any fault, under Australian warranty conditions?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So if anyone brought these locomotives and the 44 Class within the last 12 months, both come with a warranty, and have found this happening, shouldn't people be taking them back to Toms' Hobbies for them to fix that, or any fault, under Australian warranty conditions?
"Newcastle Express"
I think you will find most have owned their first run 44/930 locomotives for a fair bit longer than 12 months.
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

At $150ea I was in the habit of buying one every time I visited Tom's (now Bob's) so that I now have a large collection of cheap but untested 44's. I'm sure not to be alone on this front and this was well over 12mths ago. What ever stock Bob's have left are no longer discounted and they're fetching much more on eBay these days

While I purchased mine at great prices, I wonder how many of them will click

Maybe I have a fleet of dummies...
  a6et Minister for Railways

I purchased on 44 on special & so far no issues. For those who have come in recently, I would suggest reading the thread from the beginning as it does give some feedback that has come as a result of contacts with Bob Cooke the owner of TOR in this regard.  Likewise anyone having any concerns with any of their models can contact TOR for up to date information.  Also I think there has been some information posted in the newsletters regarding it.

I spoke with the people there some time back when this matter came up, & was told that during a visit to the new factory that the problem was given to them for resolution, which is to going to be carried out during the retooling of the chassis & bogies to accept the new motors from the current factory, that includes the 42/S, 44, 47, 48 & 49classes which all will be rerun in the future.  Their priority though was to get the GM & then the 48cl out & then the reruns with spare being made available.

While it might be frustrating to wait for repairs, at least they seem to be prepared to fix the problem, I guess I have to wonder about the same thing with models from other importers that may also develop over time as I do not think any of them are using the old factory anymore except for a couple of models.  Lets hope that the new factory that they are using can also provide a solution/fix for the models produces at the old factory should the same thing happen.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

I haven't got time to through the whole thread, but this sounds like a problem that deals with a lot of locos (this case the 44 class) that even the manufacturer/supplier didn't even know about. Good to see them trying to fix something.

We wonder if this problem would be the case for all locos made at the same factory.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

I haven't got time to through the whole thread, but this sounds like a problem that deals with a lot of locos (this case the 44 class) that even the manufacturer/supplier didn't even know about. Good to see them trying to fix something.

We wonder if this problem would be the case for all locos made at the same factory.
Newcastle Express

I have six 44's that have all seen moderate to heavy use and none have developed the clicking problem yet.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I have six 44's that have all seen moderate to heavy use and none have developed the clicking problem yet.
kingfisher
Yet is the operative word here, as even if they are never run at all they can still develop the problem just sitting in the box.
  andrewstrains Assistant Commissioner

Location: Townsville, Where else but QLD
Hmmmm. that is disappointing indeed!

And before anybody asks......no, I haven't heard ANYTHING back from NWSL about what they may or may not be able to do to assist us. I have virtually given up on that idea now and will wait and see if the promised new bogies from Trainorama ever actually eventuate.

Roachie
Roachie
Roachie,

Have you been in contact with NWSL to see if they actually received the 44 class gears? They may not have therefore there has been no progress.

Andrew
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

NWSL = ? (Search brings up too many entries)
Where are these 44 class made?
  tezza Chief Commissioner

Roachie refered to NWSL way back in the thread about possible replacement gears  and it is this company..

http://www.nwsl.com/#2890
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Roachie refered to NWSL way back in the thread about possible replacement gears  and it is this company..

http://www.nwsl.com/#2890
tezza

From experience, I would not be holding my breath for either a reply or a solution from them.

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