Aurizon 2800 to 3200?

 
  K-Class Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
I found a TOC Waiver dated 19/8/13 (http://extranet.artc.com.au/docman/DocManFiles/DocTypes/TOC/Files/12309.PDF?1923319917) for two 2800 class (2809 & 2821) to travel from Albury to UGL where they will be reclassified to 3200 class.

Does anyone know if the locos have gone to UGL yet and what modifications are planned for these locos.

Matt

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  M636C Minister for Railways

I found a TOC Waiver dated 19/8/13 (http://extranet.artc.com.au/docman/DocManFiles/DocTypes/TOC/Files/12309.PDF?1923319917) for two 2800 class (2809 & 2821) to travel from Albury to UGL where they will be reclassified to 3200 class.

Does anyone know if the locos have gone to UGL yet and what modifications are planned for these locos.

Matt
K-Class

They are to be fitted with improved mufflers to allow them to be used on Duralie coal trains.

3215 has already been fitted.

I last saw 2821 at Dry Creek about a month ago....
I have no idea where they are now...

M636C
  K-Class Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Thanks M636C
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
There is a 2800 / 3200 at UGL BMD, it hasn't moved in some time. I am taking a guess that it is 3215. No sign of any others, but they could be inside if they are there.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
What was the purpose of lowering the cab roof, or modifying it from its original state when narrow gauge?
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
What was the purpose of lowering the cab roof, or modifying it from its original state when narrow gauge?
DBclass

I've seen photos of some NG ones having that modification done as well (except for 2819 in WA). Never could figure out why...
  QR-INTERAIL Deputy Commissioner

Location: Where else, but Queensland
I've seen photos of some NG ones having that modification done as well (except for 2819 in WA). Never could figure out why...
Greensleeves
I believe water was leaking into the cabs.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Thanks for the reponse. If it is water leaking I assume its an age related thing and something has rusted or worn or deteriorated. Interesting to know what exactly.

Can anyone comment on the improved mufflers on the SG 28/3200 class?
  Clyde_AT26HC-2M Chief Train Controller

2821 is still in Adelaide for shunting duties.
  bayside1 Station Master

Not have a great deal of knowledge is this area and somebody might be able to answer my question.  If this country is trying to run a "national" rail system then how come a Aurizon 2800 class can run in Victoria and SA, but not NSW.

I would have thought in 2013 we would have national polices and procedures.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Not have a great deal of knowledge is this area and somebody might be able to answer my question.  If this country is trying to run a "national" rail system then how come a Aurizon 2800 class can run in Victoria and SA, but not NSW.

I would have thought in 2013 we would have national polices and procedures.
bayside1

I think its because they are so loud. Above it was mentioned they have recieved different mufflers to try and make them quiet enough to run in NSW I suppose.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
I believe water was leaking into the cabs.
QR-INTERAIL

Interesting, they've been around for over 10 years so you'd think the problems would have been found long before now!
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I think its because they are so loud. Above it was mentioned they have recieved different mufflers to try and make them quiet enough to run in NSW I suppose.
DBclass
Yes, but why does NSW need quieter locomotives than any other state? The 2800s are not loud compared to other locomotives by any stretch of the imagination!
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Yes, but why does NSW need quieter locomotives than any other state? The 2800s are not loud compared to other locomotives by any stretch of the imagination!
Graham4405
I'd wager it has something to do with the 2800's being "new" to NSW in 2013, as opposed to already existing in Queensland. At least in NSW, I believe old locos have a grandfather clause, in which they are exempt from a lot of modern regulations, however locos like the 2800's would not be covered, as they're a "new class".
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

I'd wager it has something to do with the 2800's being "new" to NSW in 2013, as opposed to already existing in Queensland. At least in NSW, I believe old locos have a grandfather clause, in which they are exempt from a lot of modern regulations, however locos like the 2800's would not be covered, as they're a "new class".
Raichase
Or it is just a case of time wasting civil service types making waves and trying to justify their existence? Shades of Parkinson's Law", that in the civil service "Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion"
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
Or it is just a case of time wasting civil service types making waves and trying to justify their existence? Shades of Parkinson's Law", that in the civil service "Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion"
"jmt"


It's an EPA requirement that all new locomotives comply with current requirements. New in this case is new to NSW.
  EFB5800 Chief Train Controller

Location: On my office roof.
3215 has moved over to keep CRL002 company....



and 3209 has appeared where 3215 was sitting for quite a while....

  M636C Minister for Railways

Or it is just a case of time wasting civil service types making waves and trying to justify their existence? Shades of Parkinson's Law", that in the civil service "Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion"
jmt
To expand a little on Fireman Dave's comment, the NSW EPA requirements have been in force for some time, at least since the 82 and 90 class locomotives were obtained, say twenty years ago.

The NR class were delayed a little by meeting the NSW EPA requirements. Locomotives built in Bassendean were being tested in traffic without the stainless steel outlet ducts on the dynamic brakes needed to meet NSW sound levels.

It isn't just a regulation to make life difficult. I don't think it is accidental that Hunter Valley coal traffic locomotives were the first to get the big mufflers. It is said that Newcastle is the largest coal export port in the world, and the number of coal trains is hard to explain to anyone who hasn't watched them.

While it is true that the railway to Maitland has been there since 1855 and there would be no more than a dozen occupied houses that predate the line, this line runs through densely populated suburbia with no significant hills to form sound barriers on much of the line (a problem that doesn't affect the Aurizon lines to Hay Point, Gladstone or Abbott Point, although the much less dense traffic through the suburbs to the Port of Brisbane has alarmed the Queensland politicians to the extent of suggesting a long tunnel to avoid the suburbs). So there are genuine concerns about rail noise in the minds of the general public and all new locomotives do meet the NSW EPA requirements.

The 2800s, built at the same time as the NRs didn't have to meet the NSW requirements as they were envisaged as being used only within Queensland. The last batch were modified in Redbank with larger mufflers but on testing, these were found not to meet NSW requirements so the locomotives were sent elsewhere while further changes were developed.

These locomotives are intended to be used on the Duralie trains on the Lower North Coast Line.

M636C
  M636C Minister for Railways

Interesting, they've been around for over 10 years so you'd think the problems would have been found long before now!
Greensleeves

The original roof was in fact a double roof with the full roof at the lower level and a dummy higher roof at the higher level matching the top of the hood. The horns were mounted on the main roof for clearance reasons with a cutout in the upper roof around them. This cutout allowed water to pool encouraging corrosion of the main lower roof leading to leaks. Removing the upper roof removed the cause of the water pooling, the corrosion and the leaks. It does look a bit odd now. The GL class has a similar dummy roof but hasn't had the corrosion problems.

M636C
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
The original roof was in fact a double roof with the full roof at the lower level and a dummy higher roof at the higher level matching the top of the hood. The horns were mounted on the main roof for clearance reasons with a cutout in the upper roof around them. This cutout allowed water to pool encouraging corrosion of the main lower roof leading to leaks. Removing the upper roof removed the cause of the water pooling, the corrosion and the leaks. It does look a bit odd now. The GL class has a similar dummy roof but hasn't had the corrosion problems.

M636C
M636C

Ahh, thanks for that. I would never been able to pick the presence of a dummy roof on them
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
The 2800s, built at the same time as the NRs didn't have to meet the NSW requirements as they were envisaged as being used only within Queensland.
M636C
The question doesn't change, but let's reverse the argument then. If the 2800s are too noisy in NSW, why aren't they too noisy in other states. Do NSW residents have more sensitive ears?

Standards should be nation wide.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
The question doesn't change, but let's reverse the argument then. If the 2800s are too noisy in NSW, why aren't they too noisy in other states. Do NSW residents have more sensitive ears?

Standards should be nation wide.
Graham4405
I disagree with your first comment, clearly made in jest, and completely agree with your second comment. The railways continually try and fail, from the different gauges to the differing standards. We live in one country, yet with our different gauges, rulesm, safeworking systems, etc, I'd suggest that some European countries have more compatible railways with their neighbors than we do within our own borders!
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
The question doesn't change, but let's reverse the argument then. If the 2800s are too noisy in NSW, why aren't they too noisy in other states. Do NSW residents have more sensitive ears?

Standards should be nation wide.
"Graham4405"


They aren't too noisy in other states because the other states don't have as stringent noise limits. You could argue that the other states are behind, and should catch up with NSW.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
The question doesn't change, but let's reverse the argument then. If the 2800s are too noisy in NSW, why aren't they too noisy in other states. Do NSW residents have more sensitive ears?

Standards should be nation wide.
"Graham4405"


They aren't too noisy in other states because the other states don't have as stringent noise limits. You could argue that the other states are behind, and should catch up with NSW.
  Hendo Deputy Commissioner

The original roof was in fact a double roof with the full roof at the lower level and a dummy higher roof at the higher level matching the top of the hood. ....... This cutout allowed water to pool encouraging corrosion of the main lower roof leading to leaks. Removing the upper roof removed the cause of the water pooling, the corrosion and the leaks. It does look a bit odd now. The GL class has a similar dummy roof but hasn't had the corrosion problems.

M636C
M636C
It sounds as though they weren't built properly if the primary roof has water pooling on it. Removing the Sun Roof (the dummy roof) may mean a requirement for new insulation for the main roof, and/or more powerful air-conditioning. As a former resident of Qld and the Pilbara, Peter, I am sure you appreciate the benefits of the sun roof before modern aircon. Though the weirdest sun roofs were those on Brisbane cabs in the late 70's, F1 drivers could only dream of aerofoils as big.


Cheers,
Hendo

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