Aurizon 2800 to 3200?

 
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
They aren't too noisy in other states because the other states don't have as stringent noise limits. You could argue that the other states are behind, and should catch up with NSW.
Fireman Dave


My comments have been in continuation of

If this country is trying to run a "national" rail system then how come a Aurizon 2800 class can run in Victoria and SA, but not NSW.

I would have thought in 2013 we would have national polices and procedures.
bayside1


It is ludicrous to disallow something in one state that is allowed in another or vice versa.

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  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
It is ludicrous to disallow something in one state that is allowed in another or vice versa.
Graham4405
I do find it odd that you tend to be finding NSW (as the outlier) to be at fault. I'm inclined to agree with Fireman Dave, in that NSW restrictions are the most friendly towards people living by the line. I dislike NIMBYs as much as the next person, if you live near a railway line, you have to expect noise. That being said, we obviously have the technology and the resources to build compliant locomotives, so that should be the new standard across the board. Nationwide (grandfather clause, excepted).
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

I do find it odd that you tend to be finding NSW (as the outlier) to be at fault. I'm inclined to agree with Fireman Dave, in that NSW restrictions are the most friendly towards people living by the line. I dislike NIMBYs as much as the next person, if you live near a railway line, you have to expect noise. That being said, we obviously have the technology and the resources to build compliant locomotives, so that should be the new standard across the board. Nationwide (grandfather clause, excepted).
Raichase

Too true, why go backwards to make all states 'standard'?
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Too true, why go backwards to make all states 'standard'?
ab123
Because it's anti-competitive. PN is 'blessed' to possess a fleet of thirty to forty year old diesels it can grandfather around NSW, but when Aurizon shows up with modern-ish dash 8 fifteen-year-old diesels its shown the door. So Aurizon's choice is to buy forty year old diesels or buy new and (hypothetically) scrap its NR-era diesels...how exactly is that good for the rail industry or the nimbys? If this standard is such a good thing then get rid of the grandfathering and make the playing field level for everyone.
  Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

Location: Shh, I'm hiding
Because it's anti-competitive. PN is 'blessed' to possess a fleet of thirty to forty year old diesels it can grandfather around NSW, but when Aurizon shows up with modern-ish dash 8 fifteen-year-old diesels its shown the door. So Aurizon's choice is to buy forty year old diesels or buy new and (hypothetically) scrap its NR-era diesels...how exactly is that good for the rail industry or the nimbys? If this standard is such a good thing then get rid of the grandfathering and make the playing field level for everyone.
"Sulla1"


How is it any more anti-competitive than any of the other state based requirements? De-sanders in NSW for example, or the Victorian radios for Victoria. How about the fact that PN (for example) had to buy brand new loco's to operate in Queensland. Oh and don't let a little thing like the QRN/Aurizon grain train that operates with older motive power.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Having diffferent gauges is anti competitive. If PN buys new locos they too have to match or better the standard, so I see no issue.

PN isn't making the rules or in bed with the people who are ( i wouldnt think). So...
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I do find it odd that you tend to be finding NSW (as the outlier) to be at fault.
Raichase
I don't believe I have said or implied that. The whole point is that if we are to have a national rail system state borders (and thus variations in legislation) should provide no impediment to that.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Having diffferent gauges is anti competitive.
DBclass
Having different gauges is an unfortunate hangover from the distant past when arguably poor decisions were made. It forced QRN/Aurizon to purchase and/or gauge convert locos for standard gauge, so yes I guess it could be argued that it is anti-competitive...
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

How is it any more anti-competitive than any of the other state based requirements? De-sanders in NSW for example, or the Victorian radios for Victoria. How about the fact that PN (for example) had to buy brand new loco's to operate in Queensland. Oh and don't let a little thing like the QRN/Aurizon grain train that operates with older motive power.
"Fireman Dave"


Aurizon would not be operating fuel-guzzling particulate-making clunkers in NSW if it wasn't for the EPA. Those grain locos are the oldest locos by more than a decade in Aurizon's mainline fleet. Quieter, more environmentally friendly models could be getting used at the moment if Aurizon could get permission to...isn't anyone seeing the irony? And PN didn't have to buy brand new locos to run in Queensland to suit an arbitrary noise rating...they were stuck with exactly the same physical restrictions as Aurizon, which equally impacts on both operators. If PN wants to run secondhand or slightly used locos in Queensland for lower value contracts they can...they still had access to and used ex-Queensland locos at startup but chose not to persist with them.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Graham 4405 I agree on the gauge issue. Its too far gone now to ever change. To be fair though its a compromise as a standard gauge the country over would have hampered progress in my opinion. My point of view was as a country its wholly uncompetitive.

If PN have used ex QLD locos in QLD, and Aurizon have used ex NSW locos in NSW, im confused. Looking at my photos from 2009 of the Blackwater system in Qld, the 4100, and no doubt all the locos of that model, have noise deflectors on the side near the cooling fan intake along the running boards. So that suggests they too have noise limits of interest. FWIW, I think the new 4100 class are actually louder then the WAGR S/Q class. So...

The 2800 class are not noisy like an old EMD, but their bass like exhaust will cause a fuss in towns. It tends to reverberate? I think is the word off vertical walls etc.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I do find it odd that you tend to be finding NSW (as the outlier) to be at fault. I'm inclined to agree with Fireman Dave, in that NSW restrictions are the most friendly towards people living by the line. I dislike NIMBYs as much as the next person, if you live near a railway line, you have to expect noise. That being said, we obviously have the technology and the resources to build compliant locomotives, so that should be the new standard across the board. Nationwide (grandfather clause, excepted).
Raichase
We have the technology to make near-silent lawnmowers, leaf blowers and other garden/industrial equipment (e.g. generators, cranes, bobcats) too, but that doesn't stop tradies or multi-million dollar companies from buying cheap obsolete junk, nor does it seem to stop Mr. Harley and his twelve disciples from being heard three kilometres away at 4AM, or the kid with his $800 riced up automatic Civic with the 4" exhaust. I don't see those construction site generators being silenced or at least muffled under any laws either, when they were building Costco Ringwood, you could hear the drone of diesel generators, cranes and bobcats from a kilometre away.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
We have the technology to make near-silent lawnmowers, leaf blowers and other garden/industrial equipment (e.g. generators, cranes, bobcats) too, but that doesn't stop tradies or multi-million dollar companies from buying cheap obsolete junk, nor does it seem to stop Mr. Harley and his twelve disciples from being heard three kilometres away at 4AM, or the kid with his $800 riced up automatic Civic with the 4" exhaust. I don't see those construction site generators being silenced or at least muffled under any laws either, when they were building Costco Ringwood, you could hear the drone of diesel generators, cranes and bobcats from a kilometre away.
Heihachi_73

I agree with a lot of what you said especially harley's. Why they need to be that loud is completely uncourteous to the rest of the world. Im always amazed when other makes and models of bikes, quiet as can be, probably are more comfortable, cheaper to run, and probably more powerfull too. Yet dont get the same rate as harleys.

As a comparison my brothers Ducati is louder then my car, cost more to buy, isnt as comfortable to ride in any weather as my car, isnt as safe, and depending on how you ride it, uses the same in fuel. Makes you wonder huh.

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