Zig Zag Railway - Project Restart & the fire

 
  Ed Locomotive Driver

This fire damage is heartbreaking.

Zig Zag is a wonderful heritage railway.
It is also a major attraction for the Blue Mountains tourist industry.

Shocking as these images are, I am confident that Zig Zag can recover and rebuild.
The Blue Mountains & NSW tourism need this asset returned to service.

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  abtrail Station Master

Location: west coast wilderness railway
are the 10 class gone
  allambee Chief Train Controller

Some fire damage photos here.

https://www.facebook.com/ZigZagRailway/photos_stream

Looks like fire got into the workshop building with significant damage.
I recall the workshop had asbestos in the the roof? so there would have to be asbestos mixed in with that ash, needing a specialist contractor to remove $$$ and would delay rebuilding efforts.
Burn rolling stock outside now seemingly only fit for scrap.
  nic Chief Train Controller

Location: Brisbane, QLD
I'm truly saddened by this. As if railway preservation in this country doesn't have enough hurdles to clear - especially at Zig Zag! All the best to the heard working volunteers down there - I do hope things start to rebound from here on in.

Although one can say that it could have been a whole lot worse, it's tragic that so many historic wooden carriages were destroyed. Were the Coaches in O road the Ex QR Evans Set? If so this is particularly tragic as ZZR was the only place where you could see a near-complete evans set in operation today.

Were the Garratt and DD17 stored at the back on the shops damaged in any way? and what about the dismantled DD17 stored at Top points? or where ever it is now?
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
Some fire damage photos here.

https://www.facebook.com/ZigZagRailway/photos_stream

Looks like fire got into the workshop building with significant damage.
I recall the workshop had asbestos in the the roof? so there would have to be asbestos mixed in with that ash, needing a specialist contractor to remove $$$ and would delay rebuilding efforts.
Burn rolling stock outside now seemingly only fit for scrap.
allambee
No asbestos to worry about. Smile

IC 587 - Special Purpose Vehicle - Sleeping car (Hospital Train) AAS 1231 - 1st Class Corridor Sleeping Car (Hospital Train) CAS 123 - Originally 1st Class Pullman Sleeper (This was stored in dismantled condition) CLV 518 - Composite brake van BUV 1370 - Evans car brake van BU 1415 - Intermediate Evans car 2016 - 2000 Class rail motor THe above mentioned cars were the ones lost.
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
Some fire damage photos here.

https://www.facebook.com/ZigZagRailway/photos_stream

Looks like fire got into the workshop building with significant damage.
I recall the workshop had asbestos in the the roof? so there would have to be asbestos mixed in with that ash, needing a specialist contractor to remove $$$ and would delay rebuilding efforts.
Burn rolling stock outside now seemingly only fit for scrap.
No asbestos to worry about. Smile

IC 587 - Special Purpose Vehicle - Sleeping car (Hospital Train) AAS 1231 - 1st Class Corridor Sleeping Car (Hospital Train) CAS 123 - Originally 1st Class Pullman Sleeper (This was stored in dismantled condition) CLV 518 - Composite brake van BUV 1370 - Evans car brake van BU 1415 - Intermediate Evans car 2016 - 2000 Class rail motor THe above mentioned cars were the ones lost.
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
Some fire damage photos here.

https://www.facebook.com/ZigZagRailway/photos_stream

Looks like fire got into the workshop building with significant damage.
I recall the workshop had asbestos in the the roof? so there would have to be asbestos mixed in with that ash, needing a specialist contractor to remove $$$ and would delay rebuilding efforts.
Burn rolling stock outside now seemingly only fit for scrap.
No asbestos to worry about. Smile

  • IC 587 - Special Purpose Vehicle - Sleeping car (Hospital Train)
  • AAS 1231 - 1st Class Corridor Sleeping Car (Hospital Train)
  • CAS 123 - Originally 1st Class Pullman Sleeper (This was stored in dismantled condition)
  • CLV 518 - Composite brake van
  • BUV 1370 - Evans car brake van
  • BU 1415 - Intermediate Evans car
  • 2016 - 2000 Class rail motor   The above mentioned cars were the ones lost.
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
Some fire damage photos here.

https://www.facebook.com/ZigZagRailway/photos_stream

Looks like fire got into the workshop building with significant damage.
I recall the workshop had asbestos in the the roof? so there would have to be asbestos mixed in with that ash, needing a specialist contractor to remove $$$ and would delay rebuilding efforts.
Burn rolling stock outside now seemingly only fit for scrap.
No asbestos to worry about. Smile

  • IC 587 - Special Purpose Vehicle - Sleeping car (Hospital Train)
  • AAS 1231 - 1st Class Corridor Sleeping Car (Hospital Train)
  • CAS 123 - Originally 1st Class Pullman Sleeper (This was stored in dismantled condition)
  • CLV 518 - Composite brake van
  • BUV 1370 - Evans car brake van
  • BU 1415 - Intermediate Evans car
  • 2016 - 2000 Class rail motor   The above mentioned cars were the ones lost.
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
Some fire damage photos here.

https://www.facebook.com/ZigZagRailway/photos_stream

Looks like fire got into the workshop building with significant damage.
I recall the workshop had asbestos in the the roof? so there would have to be asbestos mixed in with that ash, needing a specialist contractor to remove $$$ and would delay rebuilding efforts.
Burn rolling stock outside now seemingly only fit for scrap.
No asbestos to worry about. Smile

  • IC 587 - Special Purpose Vehicle - Sleeping car (Hospital Train)
  • AAS 1231 - 1st Class Corridor Sleeping Car (Hospital Train)
  • CAS 123 - Originally 1st Class Pullman Sleeper (This was stored in dismantled condition)
  • CLV 518 - Composite brake van
  • BUV 1370 - Evans car brake van
  • BU 1415 - Intermediate Evans car
  • 2016 - 2000 Class rail motor   The above mentioned cars were the ones lost.
  Zig Zag Reporter Locomotive Fireman

Like many I wish the society well with this latest huge hurdle in the history of the ZZR. I did as mod think about splitting the fire posts to their own thread, but the work to restart has had a major disaster, and  thus continue to be managed......so is a part of the long term aim to be running again..

So I altered the title slightly for now.  

Again best wishes.

Regards,
David Head
dthead

David Head
Thank you for your comments and your support of this thread.

Thanks also for adding 'and fire' to the post subject title, it certainly makes it more relevant.
(but you left out the 'and flood' bit going back to March this year Laughing).

In all my years of involvement at ZZR since foundation, we have never been so affected by both a bushfire and a flood in any one year (least of all 7 months apart).  Sad

regards
David H
  Zig Zag Reporter Locomotive Fireman

are the 10 class gone
abtrail

They will be around for awhile yet (we hope).
1003 singed, 1004 OK
  Zig Zag Reporter Locomotive Fireman

I'm truly saddened by this. As if railway preservation in this country doesn't have enough hurdles to clear - especially at Zig Zag! All the best to the heard working volunteers down there - I do hope things start to rebound from here on in.

Although one can say that it could have been a whole lot worse, it's tragic that so many historic wooden carriages were destroyed. Were the Coaches in O road the Ex QR Evans Set? If so this is particularly tragic as ZZR was the only place where you could see a near-complete evans set in operation today.

Were the Garratt and DD17 stored at the back on the shops damaged in any way? and what about the dismantled DD17 stored at Top points? or where ever it is now?
nic
Nic
Thanks for your support.

From my observations it appears to me that the great creator seems to have it in for our sleeping cars I am afraid.

All 4 of our ex-NSWGR sleeping cars are now non-existent (EAM, LAM, VAM and AL)
As Tom (Flathog) pointed out, our ex-QR sleeping cars were also destroyed
IC 587 - Special Purpose Vehicle - Sleeping car (Hospital Train)
CAS 1231 - 1st Class Corridor Sleeping Car (Hospital Train)
CAS 123 - Originally 1st Class Pullman Sleeper (stored in dismantled condition)

So our whole sleeping car fleet has been wiped out.

But wait!
I believe that ex-SAR 390 used to be a sleeping car, and it has survived, but that may be because we converted it into a Dining Car (I'll bet it is grateful we converted it).
Crazy theory, I know, but how else do you make sense out of the random choices a fire makes.
But then again, come to think of it, we lost NO ex-SAR cars.

As for the Evans Cars, we only lost two of those, a brake van (Terminal car) and an intermediate car. So a complete Evans car fleet may yet be seen once again gracing our rails.

regards
David H
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
Sad news about the sleeping cars. I didn't realise that the Zig Zag had a Pullman car before.
  Penguinapple1 Station Staff

Just made a list of the rolling stock that was destroyed in the fires.

I can't find a photo of IC 587.


AAS 1231 - Countess of Belmore. Built 1935. Queensland Railways 1st class corridor sleeper with 7 compartments sleeping 14, 2 toilets, seats 28. Built Ipswich Workshops, 1935 for Sunshine Express service, cost 5,598 Australian pounds, of cedar and pine on a steel underframe, on 4 wheel Timken roller bearing bogies. Bought ZZR 1985. Refurbished 2003 for Blue Train.



CAS 123 - Pullman car - Sapphire. Built 1913 at Ipswich Workshops for Queensland Railways as a 1st class sleeping car for 20 passengers, or seating for 40.



CLV 518 Built 1909 - 1910 at the Ipswich workshops as end platform composite carriage. Known as Davidson Vans. Includes a central guard's van, 1st & 2nd class compartments together with 2 lavatories & 2 dog boxes. Bought ZZR 2003. ZZR removed lavatories and dog boxes, extended seating, capacity: 27 passengers.



BUV 1370, has a guards compartment at one end, and a smaller seating capacity of 70 passengers.
BUV 1370, built 1949 by Waddington P/L (set 32)



BU 1415, -built in 1952 by Commonwealth Engineering. They were known as set 33 when in service. All Evans cars are painted maroon. carriages have full width, low back seats, capacity 90 passengers.



2016, Built in 1960-61. Capacity 54 passengers each, except for 2011 which has a guard's compartment and smaller passenger capacity. Stainless steel sheeted body, AEC diesel engines, 11.3 litre, 150 hp, two speed governor, DC generator, coil type voltage regulator. Built in 1960-61 by Comeng Ltd., Queensland, Rocklea Works. Length: 56'4", width: 8'6".


-All information and photos are from http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~harburg/zzr.htm
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

They will be around for awhile yet (we hope).
1003 singed, 1004 OK
Zig Zag Reporter
Whilst I am extremely upset at what has happened to the Zig Zag at least no lives were lost and it is rather insignificant compared to the numerous houses lost in the Springwood/Wimmalee/Mt Vic fires. My sincere best wishes to all that suffered such terrible loses. Bushfires are a terrible reminder how vulnerable we all are who live in the Blue Moutains. Up here at Katoomba we have been spared any problems so far but who knows what he next few months hold.
  jayrail Assistant Commissioner

Location: te Anau Southern Alps NZ
How tragic for the ZZR to almost had re-accreditation issues under control.As a member of Hotham Valley Railway WA,I share the Boards anguish as HVTR is no stranger to bushfire ravages.
These bushfires are no respecter of Heritage groups in Australia.
The list is massive.
Safety of volunteers are paramount first;many volunteers will also have domestic issues as well.
  Spiritman Train Controller

Location: Camden, NSW
As a volunteer myself @ the NSWRTM the damage done by these fires is heart wrenching. Best wishes for the recovery efforts, if you need a hand with the clean up just PM me with a date and I'll come up for the day.
  Penguinapple1 Station Staff

I wonder how much money you guys would get for selling those destroyed carriages into scrap metal?
Hopefully you guys are all covered for insurance.
I have also donated $50.00 to you guys today.
  a6et Minister for Railways

For those interested the SMH has the following short article
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fire-tears-through-iconic-zig-zag-railway-20131019-2vt6v.html
  Zig Zag Reporter Locomotive Fireman

Just a quick update.

Firstly, thank you to all those who have helped and expressed offers of help.
We thank you for your generosity.
It is consoling and re-assuring to have such support behind us, especially from kindred societies both within NSW and those from Interstate.

The Australian bush that we love so much, can be a very volatile partner at times, but we still cannot shy away from or resist its beauty or its challenges.

I spent the day up at Zig Zag yesterday helping to secure the site. [One of our members has already sent some looters scampering (they came very soon after the fires were extinguished) so we must remain on our guard for all situations at all times]

Driving up through Springwood, through Mt Victoria and Browns Gap and the Vale of Clwydd I could see the challenging conditions the Rural Bushfire brigade teams were facing and one thing you tend to to at these sites, when they slow you down as you pass the roadside fires, is to read the home depot names on the vehicles to see where they have come from, and you have to admire the fact that they have come from far and wide to help the Blue Mountains community in this difficult period. There presence is not just re-assuring, but also a contributing factor in that no lives have been lost directly to the fires (so far that we know).

Property is replacable!
Lives are not!!!

Some quick answers to a couple of questions I have recieved.

Yes we are insured, and premiums up to date (we never let those lapse despite the cost impact to our bottom line).
Yes, there will be a fair bit of scrap metal, but the Insuracne company will decide how that will be dealt with.
Rosie (featured in the recent 'railway cats' thread - now locked) was evacuated earlier and is at the family home of one of our members.
Photos; the photos that I publish are sourced from either myself and other members and stored on Flickr and are watermarked 'copyright' to the ZZR purely for the purposes of source identification. They are publicly available for personal use or general publication purposes and all we ask is acknowledgement of the source. If you require a higher resolution, un-watermarked copy, please PM and I will oblige. Acknowledgement of the source is our only request.

Ohh! and a note to our kindred societies (and any other railway operator) as to something that we have observed in the last 24 hours;
The best place to store wooden railway sleepers is "in-situ", i.e. under the track and surrounded by ballast (they like it there!!!).
Close communal living on top of, or right beside one another is not their thing! (short life expectancy if living in a bush commune).

I do have one request for specialised help though.
Is there anyone out there still skilled in the design, wiring, installation, testing and certification (must be accredited) of upper quadrant signal motors and their driving/triggering relays (shelf or Q relays - preferably Q relays - not SSI), NSWGR style lever frame rotary switches and electro mechanical signalling power supplies. We need a quote to rebuild our (burnt out) relay hut and restore the operation of our upper quadrant signal on Top Road and have it restored, tested end to end and re-certified for operation. If you can do this, or know of anyone who can, please PM me. We need a quote to replace the relay hut and the wiring between the upper quadrant signal and the hut and the hut and the signal box (insurance purposes).  

I will post some more photos later this evening.
Once again, thank you for your interest and following this thread.

regards
David H
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
Just a quick update....(snipped)
I would just like to pass on a huge thanks to David for all his hard work yesterday, along with all the other volunteers (they know who they are!) Smile

It was a depressing sight to see, however, it gave much hope for the future also!

If anyone wishes to donate to the railway, don't hesitate to click the button below, every dollar counts and will assist us greatly in resuming operations again sooner rather then later!

[img]http://www.zigzagrailway.com.au/images/donate_butt.gif[/img]

Also, if anyone has any questions or wants to get involved don't hesitate to get in touch with myself, David or any other volunteer really!
I know I love the opportunity to share our great railway with others, I could chew someones ear off for hours talking about it! Razz

Find two of my photo's below.

Cheers

Tom

[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3717/10357547075_a2a6359b9c.jpg[/img]
What was BUV1370 sits with the handbrake and guards tap still standing and being the only real sign of what used to be...

[img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5491/10357594034_c776c5eae9.jpg[/img]
Welcome to 'Sunny' Lithgow. Cold one day, miserable the next...
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

A very sad sight, but lets be positive, it will be soon up and running before long. Go Zig Zag!
  jayrail Assistant Commissioner

Location: te Anau Southern Alps NZ
I  feel saddened for your group,and know what your loss means. Its wonderful to see your positive attitude to make recovery your goal;Many NZ heritage groups here have not succumbed to  past disasters like Earthquakes,violent weather and been able to continue and prosper.
  smokestack Station Master

This fire is an unmitigated tragedy for ZZR. I acknowledge the efforts that have gone into creating this superb T&H operation and feel intensely for all who have invested so much of themselves in this operation, both for its recent operational hiatus and now for the damage visited upon you by the fire. For all Australian T&H operators, this is a wake-up call. If your efforts over the years are to be worth something, and if you are to accept your responsibilities to yourselves and the greater rail heritage community, you can no longer park your rollingstock in the Australian bush and hope for the best. Effective steps must be taken by you all to ensure the safety and protection from fire of those items that have been restored and those that are awaiting restoration. Have effective firebreaks, keep unnecessary growth such as grass and weeds to a minimum, and sheds and workshops must either be not of timber construction or at least be protected by some form of built-in fire protection system. We may have to accept that track (sleepers), bridges, and trackside buildings (e.g. restored station buildings and signalboxes) in the Australian rural and bush environment may sometimes burn... but it is surely foolish in the extreme for rollingstock and locomotives---be they operational, under restoration, or awaiting restoration---to be parked/stored/stabled in such a position that a bushfire can destroy them. Can insurance ever replace these items? Of course not. Track and structures can be replaced... heritage rollingstock is irreplaceable.

As far as people go, I understand this was almost a human tragedy as well. We are all lucky that the caretaker was lucky. That is something 'good' that has come from this event.
  MC3801 Train Controller

It will now take at least a year for the Zig Zag Railway to operate again.

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