UGL announces of PowerHaul Series locomotive

 
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
I know exactly what you are talking about and in all honesty to me they look nothing alike other than having 3 axles. A better comparison in looks would be to the conceptually similar bogie used on the NRs and C43/44s and GE's more recent lighter weight products (like the Mongolian locomotives).

Sponsored advertisement

  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
One of us must be missing something GT46C-ACe. The design your talking about has wear plates/ horn cheeks that take the traction forces. The 70 class UK loco does not appear to have these instead its got the dog bone looking connecting rods on the sides mounting to a bracket on the bogie.
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
I think the loss of connection is I'm talking aesthetically, I'd hazard a guess and you're talking how they appear mechanically....
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
I think the loss of connection is I'm talking aesthetically, I'd hazard a guess and you're talking how they appear mechanically....
"GT46C-ACe"


Yeah im talking mechanical. I love studying things. Even to the point of why is there are hole in that plate. Everything has a reason. Could be its a one off stuff up at the workshop. Im good with that Smile ive done just such things Evil or Very Mad
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Ah my bad, atleast we're on the same page now!
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Cheers for the links jmt , the photo of 70018 shows the bogies just nice. Much like the SD70's up north in principle.
"DBclass"


If it is bulk Class 70 photos that you are chasing, Try the Class 70 Group at Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1374548@N22/pool/

It is interesting that UGL/GE PH37ACmai press releases in late 2011, indicated that "flexicoil" bogies would be used. Flexicoils are usually associated with EMD. Chinese? Refer to this brochure 5650 type
http://bradken.com/documents/mc-brochures/bradken_industrial_rail_transit_brochure_web.pdf




"jmt"


Didnt the WAGR P Class have flexicoil bogies? that was UGL.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Didnt the WAGR P Class have flexicoil bogies? that was UGL.
"DBclass"


The P class used a long wheelbase version of the GE floating bolster bogie introduced to meet QR's Cooper bridge loading standard with the 2600 class. It did look a little like the early EMD Flexicoil.

These days Flexicoil generally means long coil springs directly between the bogie and body (like the British 86/2 electric) rather than between the bogie and the bolster.

The primary suspension looks like an adaptation of the "Alsthom Link" primary suspension first used on the CC7100 in 1952. The coil springs are the same length but offset upwards on the side with the locating link. In the Powerhaul case I assume the higher coil is recessed inside the bogie sideframe box structure.

M636C
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Just looking back at some of my photos, the WAGR A class, had what you descibe M636C as a flexcoil bogie, having a spring between the bolster and the bogie frame. What is the purpose for having off set springs? Some freight bogies i have seen have this, as well as a link that seems to pull the axle box to one side, which all i can think of is to add fricton to act as a shock absorber. Such as in this webpage : http://www.romvag.ro/bog2_en.html 

However, i cannot see equal length springs offset vertically from one another having this effect, which leaves me wondering.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner


IRJ yesterday   http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/locomotives/ge-and-tulomsas-extend-locomotive-partnership.html?channel=542


This release says nothing about the similar PowerHaul license agreement with Hyundai Rotem in Korea, where 25 are to be built for Korail http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/freight/single-view/view/european-profile-powerhaul-locomotive-to-be-unveiled-at-innotrans.html


The IRJ article reads like a regurgitated GE media release, says nothing re Freightliner's locos propensity for self-immolation, and what proposed fix is in the pipeline

  M636C Minister for Railways





Just looking back at some of my photos, the WAGR A class, had what you descibe M636C as a flexcoil bogie, having a spring between the bolster and the bogie frame. What is the purpose for having off set springs? Some freight bogies i have seen have this, as well as a link that seems to pull the axle box to one side, which all i can think of is to add fricton to act as a shock absorber. Such as in this webpage : http://www.romvag.ro/bog2_en.html?

However, i cannot see equal length springs offset vertically from one another having this effect, which leaves me wondering.

"DBclass"


Sorry, I've been distracted....

The springs are offset only to allow the link to connect directly to the axlebox, allowing a longer link and less longitudinal variation in axle location. The spring is just raised to keep it out of the way of the link.

M636C

  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia





Just looking back at some of my photos, the WAGR A class, had what you descibe M636C as a flexcoil bogie, having a spring between the bolster and the bogie frame. What is the purpose for having off set springs? Some freight bogies i have seen have this, as well as a link that seems to pull the axle box to one side, which all i can think of is to add fricton to act as a shock absorber. Such as in this webpage : http://www.romvag.ro/bog2_en.html?

However, i cannot see equal length springs offset vertically from one another having this effect, which leaves me wondering.

"DBclass"


Sorry, I've been distracted....

The springs are offset only to allow the link to connect directly to the axlebox, allowing a longer link and less longitudinal variation in axle location. The spring is just raised to keep it out of the way of the link.

M636C

"M636C"


Ah right thanks for that, I dont mind waiting. I did wonder about that issue of radial location, but dismissed it as the link is pretty well on center so the dimensional change would be minimal. Their an interesting design. Still like the EDI S/Q/4000 class, what retains the wheelset in an axial sense? On these i can see the plates on the axlebox end which are also the keeps. I am imagining that the springs would help a lot with retainment and the plates are only a limit if the axle overtravels axially. The EMD SD70ACe i guess uses the same system where the springs are kind of in shear to maintain axial location. The springs are deep in the bogie frame. However, there may be a little pad above the axlebox i cannot see that peforms this function.

  jmt Deputy Commissioner

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/freight/single-view/view/powerhaul-fuel-savings-demonstrated.html

Interesting comparison

Now all GE have to do is to cure the tendency to spontaneously combust

When will the Australian demo be released?

Aurizons announcement of a standard gauge Galilee line will have limited the potential NG market
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/projects-infrastructure/single-view/view/queensland-coal-railway-terms-agreed.html
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Any current news on local Power Haul units ?
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Any current news on local Power Haul units ?
BDA
Similar request, does anyone know what progress UGL have made?

Last positive was this posted on 16/12/2012 http://imgur.com/a/ITYky

The Turks now have a prototype in Sweden on test http://www.postvagnen.com/forum/index.php?mode=thread&id=738318

The UGL product will only have a future in Queensland if Aurizon continue to comply with the existing loading gauge and locomotive axle weights. Should Aurizon decide to do their own thing (discard the old QGR standards) on their Central Qld Coal Network, then the PowerHaul will be underpowered, when compared with the Cape/meter gauge version of the GT46AC (as built for Ferronor in Chile), or a 16 cylinder version of South Africa's C30ACi 43 Class

This page is reasonably up to date http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerHaul_%28locomotive%29
  GS4 Train Controller

90% of the articles in the Courier Mail are still indicating the new rail lines in the coal fields will be 4' 8". I did read one that seemed to indicate the current rail line will simply extend to the new coal mines. Lets not forget (probably) a non-rail oriented journalist would have written the article so detail may not be quite spot on.

Since it is most likely to be 4' 8" lines wouldn't seem reasonable that Aurizon would simply get more GE 5000's or a newer version of those locos.
As best I can tell Aurizon has been running brand new 4100's in QLD to make sure they are sorted and then shipping them by road to service in W.A.  Couldn't they do this with 5000's from NSW service?

Another article in the CM said Clive Palmer intends to run 45,000 ton coal trains.  I'm not sure if this is feasible.  Clive has also said he will build a replica of the Titanic so I'm not holding my breath waiting.

I'm still a bit lost on Aurizon selling 3000 class electrics and then announcing they will be running the Seimens locos ordered by BHP.  Even though the 3700 class rebuilds were expensive they might not be such a bad option if the Aussie dollar continues to fall.  Once an asset is sold it's gone forever , the locos stored in Callemondah looked to be in good condition (externally) a few months ago.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

90% of the articles in the Courier Mail are still indicating the new rail lines in the coal fields will be 4' 8". I did read one that seemed to indicate the current rail line will simply extend to the new coal mines. Lets not forget (probably) a non-rail oriented journalist would have written the article so detail may not be quite spot on.
GS4
What I am talking is 3'6", dropping the ridiculous Qld loading gauge for the existing Central Qld Coal Network

I believe that axle loads of 26 ton are feasible with the existing track infrastructure, why stay with limitations to a locomotives size imposed by the existing Qld network loading gauge? A geriatric standard inherited from the days when politicians played at trains. In November the gloves come off, the caveats incorporated in the sale of QRN are extinguished. At the point when forced redundancies are legal, the disposal of assets such as Redbank become feasible, Why move coal network locomotives south for maintenance?

If Aurizon build greenfield standard gauge lines, logic would dictate AAR standards, they can then purchase off the shelf in the USA like BHP and Rio Tinto in WA
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Aurizon has indicated its planned Galilee Basin line will connect with the existing Dalrymple Bay and Abbot Point lines, so it will have to be dual gauge at the very least. With the current downturn in the Global thermal coal market I wouldn't be betting on any the Galilee Basin lines going ahead for a while.
  GS4 Train Controller

What I am talking is 3'6", dropping the ridiculous Qld loading gauge for the existing Central Qld Coal Network

I believe that axle loads of 26 ton are feasible with the existing track infrastructure, why stay with limitations to a locomotives size imposed by the existing Qld network loading gauge? A geriatric standard inherited from the days when politicians played at trains. In November the gloves come off, the caveats incorporated in the sale of QRN are extinguished. At the point when forced redundancies are legal, the disposal of assets such as Redbank become feasible, Why move coal network locomotives south for maintenance?

If Aurizon build greenfield standard gauge lines, logic would dictate AAR standards, they can then purchase off the shelf in the USA like BHP and Rio Tinto in WA
jmt
I agree , change appears to be slow but is happening.  When the 4000's first appeared I thought QR would be hauling general freight with them. The QR employees I knew said with the 4000's being slightly bigger in the loading gauge (from memory it was the increased length affecting their width on curves) so they would not be used through suburban Brisbane.  That seemed to make sense until PN came along and ran the same locos through suburban Brisbane !!

I'm not sure but Redbank may not be a part of Aurizon already ...... can a Aurizon or QR employee confirm?
Walkers EDI built the current locos but I guess they do not want to do maintenance work.

Scrapping the old loading gauge in the coal fields and Walkers EDI shifting to Mackay would make a lot of sense.   There is bound to be a lot more to this so I guess we will have to wait and see.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Although they are longer than the 2800s, the 4000s actually fit in the old QR loading gauge and can work on any 20 tonne line in Queensland, while the 2800s don't fit and are heavily restricted south of Rockhampton. Redbank is part of Aurizon and the 2800s and 4000/4100s go there every so often. EDI also does contract work, but mostly on PN's identical PN and 83 classes. There's a good chance Aurizon will begin using GT42CU-ACs on NCL freights eventually, the rate the older Clydes are going up for sale won't leave much choice when demand warms up again.
  GS4 Train Controller

TÜLOMSA is actually producing 2 different profile PowerHaul locomotives

UK loading gauge PH37ACmi is similar to units built in the USA

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2norfolk/8959421335/sizes/l/in/photolist-eDHnPD-8zRnr1-8zNexc-8zNewg-8zNey2-dXKKiC-6hUcbC-4cbrUS-7Bnv3P-aAEC82-48y2N1-efCD9u-drah5n-drahdH-9tDo3b-bXn24H-dYKhTc-96ddqH-958791-5nKANw-aBnPk3-aBnPnW-aaqbge-aaqcke-aat2yd-ektwPe-6W6ZKt-76dhcA-9s34tW-bySM1m-4aT5cf-64obiJ-7HAxcs-7Hy6gZ-aHHWL2-76dhcu-vjiFo/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2norfolk/8960611140/sizes/l/in/photolist-eDPtvw-eDHnPD-8zRnr1-8zNexc-8zNewg-8zNey2-dXKKiC-6hUcbC-4cbrUS-7Bnv3P-aAEC82-48y2N1-efCD9u-drah5n-drahdH-9tDo3b-bXn24H-dYKhTc-96ddqH-958791-5nKANw-aBnPk3-aBnPnW-aaqbge-aaqcke-aat2yd-ektwPe-6W6ZKt-76dhcA-9s34tW-bySM1m-4aT5cf-64obiJ-7HAxcs-7Hy6gZ-aHHWL2-76dhcu-vjiFo/

The European production model PH37ACi has a more traditional European appearance

http://www.mainlinediesels.net/images/basic/ge_29008_51.jpg

The P616 prime mover is remarkably compact

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_q_WGHXnqn-Q/TRl6M3BAt5I/AAAAAAAABXA/HrooDmVIxvg/s1600/Power-haul-GE-525x349.jpg







It's probably the British Racing Green paint used on 1970's era Jags affecting the reliability !  LOL. (Just ask me how I know)
Much thanks for posting the pics.  GE's web site seems to indicate the P616 (or should that be P76) engines we intended to gas powered generator engines.  It will be interesting to see if they persist with them.  The poor Powerhaul may be dead in QLD if loading gauges are corrected or regular ES44AC's are introduced.

Does W.A. or S.A. have any need of Powerhaul spec locos ?  
jmt
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Martin Baumann posting on the US Yahoo Group LocoNotes

"The latest issue of the British magazine "Rail Express" reports that Freightliner will not be taking their last ten units but these will instead be built for open-access operator Colas Rail numbered 70 802 to 70 811 behind Turkish built demonstrator 70 801 ex 70 099."


Freightliner UK accepted 19 (the 20th was dropped when unloading in the UK and returned to the States), but the type, especially those with higher speed gearing for intermodal, have proved unreliable, and subject to self immolation

Unless UGL can sort out the engine fuel systems susceptibility to vibrations and resonance at higher running speeds, they may be flogging a lame duck
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Martin Baumann posting on the US Yahoo Group LocoNotes

"The latest issue of the British magazine "Rail Express" reports that Freightliner will not be taking their last ten units but these will instead be built for open-access operator Colas Rail numbered 70 802 to 70 811 behind Turkish built demonstrator 70 801 ex 70 099."


Freightliner UK accepted 19 (the 20th was dropped when unloading in the UK and returned to the States), but the type, especially those with higher speed gearing for intermodal, have proved unreliable, and subject to self immolation

Unless UGL can sort out the engine fuel systems susceptibility to vibrations and resonance at higher running speeds, they may be flogging a lame duck
jmt
If they are so bad why are Colas Rail taking them?
  GS4 Train Controller

If they are so bad why are Colas Rail taking them?
nswtrains
Why did Queensland Railways keep buying English Electrics?   Very Happy
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Isnt the Blackwater Gladstone coal line 26 ton axle load? im sure I saw 26.25 ton axle load wagons at Bluff, whether they run all the way to Gladstone or not I do not know. Maybe they stopped short at the power station.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.