Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
yes it is an inspection vehicle.
JimYarin
Thanks for the info.

Alex C

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  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
One "much loved" feature of the metro rail system has just been eliminated.   The platform shelter panels with the Scientology murals at Goodwood have been removed and chopped up.
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
Some observations from the past few days.

....... a 110 permanent restriction has also appeared on the down just before Marion ........

Alex C
"62430"


There is also a brand-new 110 kph permanent speed restriction sign on the Down Suburban just before Mile End station (as the track straightens out after the curve from Adelaide yard).  Presumably this applies to both electric and diesel trains and means the Belair railcars can now scoot through the west parklands 20 kph faster than they were allowed previously.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
One "much loved" feature of the metro rail system has just been eliminated.   The platform shelter panels with the Scientology murals at Goodwood have been removed and chopped up.
1S47
Oh no !  I was so sad to hear this... who will tell the children to "say no to drugs" now?  I remember the first time I noticed that mural in the 1990's when I was catching the train home from the Unley Pool... Vale Scientology mural.

There is also a brand-new 110 kph permanent speed restriction sign on the Down Suburban just before Mile End station (as the track straightens out after the curve from Adelaide yard)
1S47
To think that it's gone from a sea of yellow TSR's on every line to this.  Amazing.  Is there any indication of a timetable yet?  I suppose they will need to have the 4000's fully operational along the line before they can get an idea of correct timings.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
There is also a brand-new 110 kph permanent speed restriction sign on the Down Suburban just before Mile End station (as the track straightens out after the curve from Adelaide yard).  Presumably this applies to both electric and diesel trains and means the Belair railcars can now scoot through the west parklands 20 kph faster than they were allowed previously.
"1S47"
Um, no. The poxes are nannied to 90km/h, any speed allowance higher than that is meaningless to them.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Oh no !  I was so sad to hear this... who will tell the children to "say no to drugs" now?  I remember the first time I noticed that mural in the 1990's when I was catching the train home from the Unley Pool... Vale Scientology mural.
"don_dunstan"
I never had a problem with the murals, and I am the most non religious people ever. Unless you knew they were put there by Scientology you'd never have known, I am sure something similar will be installed, and that won't bother me either.

To think that it's gone from a sea of yellow TSR's on every line to this.  Amazing.  Is there any indication of a timetable yet?  I suppose they will need to have the 4000's fully operational along the line before they can get an idea of correct timings.
"don_dunstan"
Pfffft! We can't even get a hint of a timetable for the diesel services that are supposedly resuming to Noarlunga within two weeks... - And if you believe that I have some Scientology murals to sell you, clearly you've been on the drugs!
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Getting OT?

"Um, no. The poxes are nannied to 90km/h, any speed allowance higher than that is meaningless to them."

A question for those who may know the technical characteristics of the 3000s

The 3000s use VVVF*  drive systems supplying ac traction motors. *variable voltage, variable frequency.

At lower speeds both the voltage and frequency are change together to maintain a constant magnetic flux in the motors to prevent over excitation.

At a certain operating point when maximum motor voltage is reached, coincides with the power rating of the system, the frequency can be increased without increasing the voltage. This corresponds to field weakening in a dc motor. Overall the system goes from constant torque to constant power.

For the 3000s what is this speed?

Regards
Ian
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Pfffft! We can't even get a hint of a timetable for the diesel services that are supposedly resuming to Noarlunga within two weeks... - And if you believe that I have some Scientology murals to sell you, clearly you've been on the drugs!
Aaron
Stop being so negative.  It's on the cusp of being complete and you're still banging on like it's a disaster... it's very tiresome.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Stop being so negative.  It's on the cusp of being complete and you're still banging on like it's a disaster... it's very tiresome.
don_dunstan
It's not being negative, it's being a realist, something our government has issues with. Once again I am pleased that someone from a different state has such a good grasp on the happenings more so than those that live within meaningful distance.

Try living here and having it 'on the cusp' of being complete for 3 months! That would be one month before it was to complete and 2 months post it 'being complete'... Still signalling not sorted, still no training done for drivers or controllers, still opening according to Minister by November 30. The line isn't even handed back to DPTI yet... It's going to be late (again) but the Minister is still too scared to say so.
  trainznbuses Train Controller

Location: Seacliff Park, SA
OK then. Back on topic to the Noarlunga line, I have a signalling question for at Noarlunga Station.
On the up side of the platform at both platforms the signals have a little rectangular box between the main signals and the (new) low speed signals on the posts.
Mr Vincents page doesn't show any mention of the boxes or the low speed signals.
I took a couple of pics today:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48961829/2013-11-16%2012.12.01.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48961829/2013-11-16%2012.12.12.jpg

Anyone have any idea what these boxes may display?
  Scooter_Guy Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA. Suburb: Redwood Park
I hope the entire Seaford Line project is 100% complete just before 'Festival Season'.
And the trains are likely to be packed with hundreds of goers for C500, Womadelaide, Fringe Festival, etc!
The railway crossing warning signs for traffic should have a 'railway reopened' plate soon!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's not being negative, it's being a realist.
Aaron
Adelaide is on the verge of the most exciting rail project to be delivered in decades, at last catching up with Brisbane and Perth, and all you can do is complain about the 3 months over-due?  For the sake of the other people here who seem to be as happy about this major project as I am, please keep your facile complaining to yourself.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Adelaide is on the verge of the most exciting rail project to be delivered in decades, at last catching up with Brisbane and Perth, and all you can do is complain about the 3 months over-due?  For the sake of the other people here who seem to be as happy about this major project as I am, please keep your facile complaining to yourself.
don_dunstan
But you don't have to put up with a poor replacement service, and broken promise after broken promise.

Might I suggest the only people happy with the progress, or lack thereof, so far are those living interstate?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
How is there a lack of progress?  A 4000 made it as far as Brighton and back the other day.  Diesel trains are running the length of the line again.  And you're saying it's not progressing?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
How is there a lack of progress?  A 4000 made it as far as Brighton and back the other day.  Diesel trains are running the length of the line again.  And you're saying it's not progressing?
"don_dunstan"
We are saying it's not progressing yes, a two month delay announced the very day the project was announced to be opening in two days time and that two months elapsing with the same issues present as there were two months ago IS NOT progress, by any definition.

To state diesels were running the length of the line again is nothing less than an obvious misunderstanding from someone 900km away from the project! A pox made the complete journey yes, but it was train order not signalled.

We have a BRAND NEW signalling system - installed for epic reliability no less, and yet a level crossing managed to fail for twenty minutes last Wednesday and it had not even seen a train yet. That is not acceptable.

We have 2 and 2/3 sparks here to begin running a service in March...

A bustitute service that's being run free to the pax at a cost of $380,000 a week, even when the trains re run that service will still have to be funded on weekends and nights, these are not rosey outcomes...
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Don

"Stop being so negative.  It's on the cusp of being complete and you're still banging on like it's a disaster... it's very tiresome."

What is tiresome is persons now uninvolved in Adelaide life telling how lucky we will be, not are.

We have been without rail services for almost 20 months and even then stoppages will not end.

What Pss me off is that the Adelaide Oval project was tied to improved rail services. I was looking forward to using a viable rail service to attend the Test match most days. I now find the rail will not be in operation until the week after the test and the parking at the Oval site is a disaster.

The track rebuild was completed on time, the underpass was completed on time. The signalling could have been rolled out with the previous track circuit based system in operation immediately the rails were put back. The new system could have been overlayed on the old. I remember the then existing system replacing the earlier automatic 3 position semaphore system. There was no shutdown for  weeks for this to happen even though the changes were much more significant.

We have been sold a pup with a promise of a great system but it is becoming apparent that SA does not have the will to make it work.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's 725km, not 900km.

Think of all the things you will gain from that shut-down.  Brand new signalling with presumably wonderful reliability (something we'd kill for in Melbourne).  The end of that endless sea of yellow sunflower TSR's.  A train line with HALF the operating costs of a thirsty smoky diesel train and substantially improved timings.  It just doesn't make any sense to me that there's so much whinging about a few months delay when the benefits of what's being completed will be so huge. To me it's really sad that some people can't be happy about it but then again maybe I'm in the wrong for not being persistently negative about it.

If that's the pervasive attitude then I give up.
  trainznbuses Train Controller

Location: Seacliff Park, SA
Hey Don D. We're South Aussies. We just like to whinge. It's our birthright apparently.
  trainznbuses Train Controller

Location: Seacliff Park, SA
Hey Don D. We're South Aussies. We just like to whinge. It's our birthright apparently.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It's 725km, not 900km.
"don_dunstan"
My apologies, I counted the actual walking distance from my office to the line 250 times and added it to your distance from the line, silly me.

As for the complaints, what's the second longest (not that I actually care) and probably most used line in Melbourne? Take it off line for 20 months and let me know what the Victorian/Melbourne Sub forum would like right about now...

You should have seen the complaints from commuters in Sydney when I was there recently and Sh!ttyRail shut down the Parramatta line for a WEEKEND(!), makes us over here look positively grateful.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It is the whine state!

None of us are complaining about what was promised.

What we are complaining about is the manner of its delivery, or lack there of.

It was perfectly practical to have the DEMUs back running to NC in September using the old signalling from Clarence Park to NC.

The re-signalling has been mismanaged.

The electrification is running late for reasons best explained by my earlier posts. The Contractor should pay in kind by working back shifts only and bringing in more labour.

Ian
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It is the whine state!

None of us are complaining about what was promised.

What we are complaining about is the manner of its delivery, or lack there of.

It was perfectly practical to have the DEMUs back running to NC in September using the old signalling from Clarence Park to NC.

The re-signalling has been mismanaged.

The electrification is running late for reasons best explained by my earlier posts. The Contractor should pay in kind by working back shifts only and bringing in more labour.

Ian
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Not to mention the damage wreaked on the reputation of the public transport system by 20 months of closure with delay after delay in the line's  reopening.

Whether customers will return remains to be seen.

The greatest system in the world is worthless if it is underutilised.
  Jumbo2001 Junior Train Controller

Just to clarify a few things, the line has been given back to DPTI. It occurred earlier this week just finished. It was handed back from projects to the Rail Commissioner, then closed under an Altered Safeworking Notice.

I think a change of terminology is needed, because the Network Speed is 110km/h. The mentioned sections have a Track Speed of 110km/h (not a Speed Restriction). However those punters will note that there is a TSR of 90km/h for a section between Mile End and Showgrounds Station (yep, Wayville has been renamed, watch this space, it will be officially known as Adelaide Showgrounds or Showgrounds, was signed off on by the Minister during the week).

As for the small theatre boxes, just speculating, but I would suggest they will display "UM" or "DM" for Up Main or Down Main. There is a similar theatre box on the dwarf absolute signal at Dry Creek North that permits a movement from broad gauge at Dry Creek North yard onto the Gawler Central line that displays these indications.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The electrification is running late for reasons best explained by my earlier posts. The Contractor should pay in kind by working back shifts only and bringing in more labour.
steam4ian
That's a more sensible complaint Ian and I would agree with you on that one.  The contracts should have been tighter than they were obviously; the problem is any large construction company now-days gets their solicitors to pour over a contract the instant it's signed looking for weaknesses.  I feel this is probably no exception.  The decision to re-do the signalling also appears to have come quite late in the piece which is also a shame but not terminal.

The biggest disappointment of all is the very late running rolling stock delivery but at least the line can operate with existing stock until the first order is complete.

As for whether the passengers will return or not, I feel that they will.  It needs time to build itself up as a good alternative after such a long absence but given the complete reconstruction task undertaken from the track up it was probably a necessary budgetary constraint.  Better late than never.

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