Overhead Stanchion Question

 
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Hi Guys
Hoping someone can help.
I am planning some SRM overhead stanchions and I am trying to gauge the distance between stanchions and what is common.
I've googled a few lines around the specific regions and noticed that they vary quite a lot.

Using what SRM have released, it seems that your generic 2 track mainlines have a combination of double track stanchions and single arm versions. The single track ones either act on the lower parts of the wiring as a general tension support whilst the larger brothers carry the full height of the wire.

Can anyone shed some light on what might be the general rule of thumb.

I am not modelling any particular line - probably leaning more towards the Short North. Its the generic distance that is the question .

Anyone?

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  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
The back of each Southern Rail stanchion pack has a general guide for their use in model form, where curves are generally far sharper than the prototype. For straight sections it mentions spacing them "...260 to 360mm... as is pleasing to the eye."
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Thanks Poath.
That helps and is a very simple solution.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
This bit says it all: "as is pleasing to the eye."

I tremble in fear that the prototype police will read that short piece of blasphemous common sense and the proprietors and all associated with SRM will be in dire danger of the worst punishment in their armoury of torture.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Hi Guys
Hoping someone can help.
I am planning some SRM overhead stanchions and I am trying to gauge the distance between stanchions and what is common.
I've googled a few lines around the specific regions and noticed that they vary quite a lot.

Using what SRM have released, it seems that your generic 2 track mainlines have a combination of double track stanchions and single arm versions. The single track ones either act on the lower parts of the wiring as a general tension support whilst the larger brothers carry the full height of the wire.

Can anyone shed some light on what might be the general rule of thumb.

I am not modelling any particular line - probably leaning more towards the Short North. Its the generic distance that is the question .

Anyone?
5711
Aspects to also consider if you are going to put in the stanchions with wire is the aspect on curves it was/is common to find single arm stanchions between the full over head ones.

They were used to set the wires over the middle of both the lines usually on the basis of one full double track, then the singles, then double.
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Thanks A6Et...
Thats what I have concluded is a general pattern.
I downloaded the SRM advice sheet as per Poath's advice and its become quite clear how the general arrangement works.
I am also using 'Mullet Creek' as a guide as thats a great example of stanchions on a double mainline.

I probably won't apply wires due to the fiddly nature and not really required for operational reasons.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Thanks A6Et...
Thats what I have concluded is a general pattern.
I downloaded the SRM advice sheet as per Poath's advice and its become quite clear how the general arrangement works.
I am also using 'Mullet Creek' as a guide as thats a great example of stanchions on a double mainline.

I probably won't apply wires due to the fiddly nature and not really required for operational reasons.
5711

There was/is an exhibition layout doing the rounds, which I forget the name of, but it was of a Brisbane suburban station double main line with O/heard & then a single line goods line next to it.  While only a shortish diorama style layout, they had the primary visible section of O/heard in place but it was not powered, or so I understand.

As all electric models had the pantographs in raised position there was an upward slopping section of wire at each end of the approach to the main visible section, as the electric trains approached the pantographs touched the wires & were pushed down with continual contact with the O/head in the viewable section.  For me it was an excellent idea & provided realism to the layout.

If I was ever to go to an overhead layout, its something I would consider for at least part of the layout, especially where it was closest to where it was viewed from, although not sure if the expense is really worth it in the end, unless one reaches the point where the layout is pretty well completed & nothing else needed.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
There was/is an exhibition layout doing the rounds, which I forget the name of, but it was of a Brisbane suburban station double main line with O/heard & then a single line goods line next to it.  
a6et
That'd be Fairfield.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_2uySMshIU
  4464 Chief Commissioner

Location: Gone, like a fart in a fan factory!
The Southern Rail Masts are "prototypical" but only provide a small snippet of the "Sydney Trains" network. Some of the masts I reckon date back to the 1920s-30s!!

I am doing "The Goods Lines" basing my layout in fictitious form around Enfield - Canterbury area Incorporating the Bankstown line in a small area!
I've looked at the Southern Rail masts, and thought about investing lots of money in them as the are solely NSW design.....but have steered away very quick.

They are plastic, same as Marklin,Viessmann and Vollmer Catenary which have been magnets for Elbows for many years.

Hence, steering me towards Sommerfeldt , not only being all metal construction, they offer a lot more range than the above European Brands, Including Tensioners and Lattice style masts which frequent the Goods Lines.  

Sommerfeldt have a Manual Book, which is a must have, not only for "how to's" but also placement of masts where and how!

The Standard Mast No.117 which is similar to the modern NSW style of RRP AU $10 each and Wire Pieces max bout $5 a pop!
They offer 2 types of wire aswell, Thicker and Finer, depending on tastw!

Aussie Distributor, Price list and Catalogue can be downloaded too!
http://www.allaboard.com.au/pricelists_catalogues/index.html
  fairfieldqld Locomotive Fireman

Firstly, if you are not going to run a contact wire, then you cant run with the panto's fully up as they will snag your masts in spectacular fashion, so in this case, to make it look anything less than wrong, the panto's will need to be locked in a part way up position.
But personally, running masts and no wires, and pantos down, is comparable to having a shower with an umbrella up ! Why bother?

Regardless of it being powered or not,
If you are going to use  a contact wire, the issue of mast spacing is also determined by the radius of any curves. The tighter the curve, for example 400mm radius,  will necessitate the masts being spaced in such a way that so that the panto always maintains contact with the running wire as the train negotiates the curve, just like a real one, and has got nothing to do with making it look nice. Find a footbridge somewhere , preferably on a curve, and studyhow it works, and watch the panto as the contact wire zigs and zags from side to side.

As the radius increases, to say, 900mm radius, then the masts will understanderbly be able to be positioned further apart, while still maintaining  correct alignment with the panto. (Within the limits of lengths of commercially available overhead contact wires.) Sommerfeldt has a number of different lengths, and you should consult the catalog.

Whilst there are a variety of masts and wire support structures in the real world, it may be necessary for you to work out beforehand , by doing a full size model plan in chalk on the shed floor, to determine what you will need to buy, and what you may need to fabricate to suit your particular track design. Then take a photo of it for reference once it has been walked away !

We have used Sommerfeldt masts and overhead wires on both "Fairfield" and "Coorparoo" and found it easy to install, once you understand what you are trying to acheive, and it is very reliable, with no failures after having now travelled thousands of miles  to shows in the trailer.

Good luck, and thanks to Poath for his input too
And his brilliant video !

GlennW
"Fairfield" and Coorparoo"
Queensland.
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

Firstly, if you are not going to run a contact wire, then you cant run with the panto's fully up as they will snag your masts in spectacular fashion, so in this case, to make it look anything less than wrong, the panto's will need to be locked in a part way up position.
But personally, running masts and no wires, and pantos down, is comparable to having a shower with an umbrella up ! Why bother?

Regardless of it being powered or not,
If you are going to use  a contact wire, the issue of mast spacing is also determined by the radius of any curves. The tighter the curve, for example 400mm radius,  will necessitate the masts being spaced in such a way that so that the panto always maintains contact with the running wire as the train negotiates the curve, just like a real one, and has got nothing to do with making it look nice. Find a footbridge somewhere , preferably on a curve, and studyhow it works, and watch the panto as the contact wire zigs and zags from side to side.

As the radius increases, to say, 900mm radius, then the masts will understanderbly be able to be positioned further apart, while still maintaining  correct alignment with the panto. (Within the limits of lengths of commercially available overhead contact wires.) Sommerfeldt has a number of different lengths, and you should consult the catalog.

Whilst there are a variety of masts and wire support structures in the real world, it may be necessary for you to work out beforehand , by doing a full size model plan in chalk on the shed floor, to determine what you will need to buy, and what you may need to fabricate to suit your particular track design. Then take a photo of it for reference once it has been walked away !

We have used Sommerfeldt masts and overhead wires on both "Fairfield" and "Coorparoo" and found it easy to install, once you understand what you are trying to acheive, and it is very reliable, with no failures after having now travelled thousands of miles  to shows in the trailer.

Good luck, and thanks to Poath for his input too
And his brilliant video !

GlennW
"Fairfield" and Coorparoo"
Queensland.
fairfieldqld
Glen, Some good comments.

5711,

The attached links lead to a site with information on modelling the British Railways 25kv overhead by a Clive Mortimore.

This is the system that the Brisbane system is based on.

Although the NSW system is different in detail the basic concepts are the same and this will give you some background information.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71391-british-railways-ole-part-one-plain-track/



http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71591-british-railways-ole-part-two-curved-track/
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The engineering behind mast placement is not trivial, trust me, I am overheading a section of my club layout with an engineered contact for panto and trolley pole.

A good approximation results if you place your last post before the curve, on the outside. Then align a ruler with the inside of the post, and laying it just slightly toward the track centre from the inside rail, then where your ruler crosses the outside rail is where the next post goes. Repeat for entire curve.
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Thanks guys for the your input:

4464 : I have downloaded the catalogue via the link and they do offer some good stuff and some of it is very close to the NSW stanchions. Good tip off that one - cheers.

fairfieldqld : I have seen pics of your set up and the overhead looks awesome. Its actually one of my reference points to what I am trying to achieve - especially that standard gauge line that looks spot on.

Br30453 : thanks for the links - again I will check this out. I'm getting some good leads here....again cheers!

Aaron : would not mind seeing some pics of your overhead project on your clublayout!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I wouldn't mind posting some, except the club website is broken so I can't send anything up right now! It will happen though.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I used the bent up overhead wire on a tram layout to make it easy to get trams on and off the track. As trying to place one on the track under the wires can be a bit of a struggle. Also the depot has these things installed too, you simply just drive your tram out and the pantograph automatically goes under the wire. Piece of cake if you power from the rails only. They take a bit to get right but adjustments are dead simple.
  aussieloco Junior Train Controller

Mullet Creek aye? Why haven't you looked at the exhibition layout called 'Mullet Creek'...all of the staunchions were made from Code 83 rail, with the wires soldered to the outriggers. Whilst you may think one bump and there it goes, you would have to fall on the staunchions for them to actually bend out of shape. What was created was in effect a building...
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Mullet Creek aye? Why haven't you looked at the exhibition layout called 'Mullet Creek'...all of the staunchions were made from Code 83 rail, with the wires soldered to the outriggers. Whilst you may think one bump and there it goes, you would have to fall on the staunchions for them to actually bend out of shape. What was created was in effect a building...
"aussieloco"


Actually Mullet creek the layout was what I was actually referring to. I've seen it a few times around the traps and in AMRM and its just the look I think it works.

Interesting that's it's just rail that was used.
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
They are plastic, same as Marklin,Viessmann and Vollmer Catenary which have been magnets for Elbows for many years.
4464
No they are not.
The Southern Rail overhead stanchions are painted brass. I have a number of them and I can't understand why you thought they are plastic.

Hopefully this link to images from their FB page works

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.157538814396113.36226.132352290248099&type=3

Regards,

Toby

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