Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
A short while back I commented unfavourably on the 'new' TT. Nothing has convinced me otherwise : it still sucks royale.

Now, granted one can never cook up the ideal TT - one which pleases everybody all of the time. With any TT there are winners and losers. The previous TT was an excellent compromise, offering good frequencies and regular expresses. Now, that has been thrown out of the window, replaced by a TT that offers no compromises. For yonks I've been using Brighton Station (not even my closest station) for the advantages of frequent services and a speedy trip. The former still remains, the latter now not possible. From NOW, the journey to the city for me is an extra 9 minutes. 18 extra minutes of travel time each day.

In the course of a week that is an added 1.5 hours needed to travel to and from the city.


Suddenly, all the incentive for myself  to take the train to the city has disappeared, excepting for my geeky affection for trains. Taking the car has become an attractive proposition. There's no longer a  time advantage for me in using the train. Moreover, though I expect to encounter red lights at some traffic intersections enroute to the city, I won't need to be delayed by stopping at every friggin rail station on the train service to the city. Every DOWN service now stops at every station until 16:55 hrs. No compromises there for the express lovers.

Oh, and as for the extra frequency of trains on the new TT, one needs to read the fine print in order not to be misguided by Government spin doctoring. That 7.5 minute peak frequency applies to some stations only.

"Faster trains" is a part of the spiel from the Government. Meaning, of course, the new 4000 class will be reaching a higher speed limit on track. The gullible masses just don't know the other truth, that travel times won't be "faster" at all.

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  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I wonder if there has been a single train since services begun yesterday that has made it to the city or to Noarlunga exactly on time. Every single train I've seen reported has been at least 3-5 minutes late
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Well, it seems that the Minister for Planning, Transport and Infrastructure decided to go for a little joyride during peak hour this morning. I have a text from a friend who saw him taking up a seat on a two-car service while paying commuters had to stand.

With morons like him in charge, it's little wonder that people are going to be exasperated enough to vote for the Lieberals even if it's not in their interests in March.

Oh, and as for the extra frequency of trains on the new TT, one needs to read the fine print in order not to be misguided by Government spin doctoring. That 7.5 minute peak frequency applies to some stations only.

"Faster trains" is a part of the spiel from the Government. Meaning, of course, the new 4000 class will be reaching a higher speed limit on track. The gullible masses just don't know the other truth, that travel times won't be "faster" at all.
"2001"
That was exactly my point when I was the first to post the crap timetable on here after it was released. If you're only going to provide the benefits of the extra frequency to a handful of stations, you may as well provide those benefits using a semi-fast service making intermediate stops only at both Hallett Coves, Oaklands and Woodlands Park and serving the rest with a stopping train.

The skip-stop timetable means that some of the students at the school where I know a few teachers would now have a 13 minute journey (including a seven minute wait at a desolate and unwelcoming station) to get to school by train over only four stops, it won't be happening though because the bus only takes 8-10 minutes for the equivalent journey.

On my first train back into the city after rail works, and I'm stuck on a train in the Adelaide yard due to the signaling software shuting down. 10m wait for reboot.
"C4AZ57B"
A free tip for the signalling guys:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb2gzteVNa4
  split_city Station Master

Does anyone know or wish to comment on how the first peak hour on the renewed Noarlunga line went?
don_dunstan

Sure thing. My 6.54AM train from NC didn't leave until 6.58AM. Only two carriages and it was standing room only from about Marino. Passengers struggled to get on and off. Train was supposed to arrive in Adelaide at 7.35AM but was 15mins late. Lucky my connecting bus from the city was also late.
  dvdplaza Chief Train Controller

I'm going to chime in with positive feedback,

First I got to sleep in instead of extra travel time.  When I arrived at Hallett Cove a 2-car pox had just arrived - knowing it would only be 7.5 minutes until the next one instead of 30 minutes I saw no reason to do my old and dangerous sprint to the platform and literally dive into a closing door.

Dawdled down, waited a few minutes, and before I knew it a 3-car pox arrived.  Got onboard and enjoyed a trip that was smoother than a babies bottom and plenty of seats for all.  For all the bullsh#t doom and gloom cry baby crap about the number of stops we were in the city in no time, a measly five minutes late to timetable.

I hear all the trains arrived 5-7 minutes late.  Sure the timetable could be fixed, but since when did any train every arrive in ARS precisely to timetable?  My average was always ten minutes late and I caught a service accordingly.

Bit surprised Rail Real Time and the announciators were dead though.

I am bloody happy and looking forward to getting home to my kids half an hour early tonight.

P.S. Overall the train was going quite slow so things can only get better and better and better from here!
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Well done dvdplaza, you used your head and the timetable flexibility to your advantage.

Many have discussed the ways the time keeping can be improved so the timetable is not beyond redemption.

I saw both 2 and 3 car sets this morning so I guess they will have to sort out which trains get the higher loading so they can get more cars.

There were so many cars at Lonsdale Sunday two sets were outside of the enclosure (Graphic artists please note Twisted Evil)
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
I'm going to chime in with positive feedback,

First I got to sleep in instead of extra travel time.  When I arrived at Hallett Cove a 2-car pox had just arrived - knowing it would only be 7.5 minutes until the next one instead of 30 minutes...!

For all the bullsh#t doom and gloom cry baby crap about the number of stops we were in the city in no time, a measly five minutes late to timetable.
dvdplaza


I'm calling you out on that claim. 7.5 minutes is the peak time frequency. The former TT had a peak time frequency of roughly 20 mins for Hallett Cove

Commuters at Christies, Marino, Seacliff, Hove plus more aren't offered that 7.5 frequency. Thus there are many people who don't enjoy the gain of "more trains". More stops = a longer journey. Longer journey reduces the attraction of using the train. In my situation, as earlier described, it's an added 18 minutes each day. Many, many others will have similar disadvantages. So what happens ? People become disillusioned sufficiently and abandon the train and opt to take the car into the city instead of using public transport.

The irony there is staggering.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

2001, normally you are very level headed but this topic has stirred you up.

Please note that Hallett Cove now gets 8 trains per hour as do the other "high frequency stations".
Some stations only get half this service but 4 trains per hour is still better than 3 trains per hour as before.

Unfortunately the temporary TT has set a precedent that many commuters from high frequency stations could get used to.

Limited express running could be introduced by having the trains leave NC 3 mins and 12 mins apart; i.e. the express leaves 12 mins after the previous stopper and arrives in ARS 3 mins behind it. Please note that I have not graphed this so to all readers, don't flame me for the suggestion until you have drawn the graph.
What could be achieved is then a trip time of 38 mins stopping at HCB, HC, Brighton, Oaklands, Woodlands Park and Goodwood (37 mins according to the present time table intervals). The alternate train would be a stops-all taking 47 mins as presently timetabled.

In to all this the Tonsley stops-all  will have to be interleaved. It will probably make the Goodwood stop unnecessary making a possible trip time of 36 mins and speeding up the stops all from NC by about 3 mins.

All this to trim 5 mins off the running time of some trains. However it is sexier and with less stops uses less energy. Smile

Ian
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I find the slowest part of any train journey on any line is actually getting to a platform at Adelaide station. The trip from my local station takes just over 9 minutes on a good day to get to Adelaide according to the timetables, but you get into Adelaide yard just after the Bridges over the Torrens and it can take you sometimes 10 minutes from where you are at a stop signal to get into a platform thus doubling the time stated on the time table. Even the tram would be quicker than that if one got off at Bowden and transferred. This slowness is not due to current overhead cable works although it might contribute a little bit, but due to TSR's and speed's over points etc. What use is it having a fast journey in, only to be delayed on the last 1-2 Km into Adelaide.
  dvdplaza Chief Train Controller

I'm calling you out on that claim. 7.5 minutes is the peak time frequency. The former TT had a peak time frequency of roughly 20 mins for Hallett Cove
"2001"


Are you serious?  You're calling me out on a timetable that is publicly available and which DID happen?  No worries let's run through it...

Old timetable 7:17 (always on time), but when missed the next wasn't until 7:40 (and each time I had to wait for it the thing never came on time).  So assuming the 7:40 showed up on time then, according to all rules of mathematics, 23 minutes but it never did I waited up to 30... I should bloody know I would pace up and down spewing at myself for the 30 seconds I wasted in the morning that costed my dangerous lunge for the door to fail that day by mere seconds, and then curse every extra minute I waited for the 7:40 coming late.  Trip time was 30 minutes by the way.

New timetable in that same timespan 7:10, 7:18, 7:25, 7:33, and 7:40 options - looks like 7.5 minutes, smells like 7.5 minutes, and I can personally vouch (because I was there) that it was around that. Trip time 33 minutes by the way.

Those ARE the old times, those ARE the new times, those ARE peak times, the train WAS pulling up this morning, I DID let it drive away, and another DID show up 7 or 8 minutes later... I fail to understand the point of a fake debate about that?

Sure the smaller stations don't get that, but you're specifically calling me out on what happened at Hallett Cove.  But on that, personally my old trains used to stop at Marino and Marino Rocks every twenty minutes to pick up two or three people - they now have one every fifteen.  Unless patronage explodes there I fail to see what it would achieve to add additional stops into the mix...?
  Dingo2013 Station Staff

Location: Banned
I just read an article in the local messenger stating that most people were happy with the rail services resumption.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Which Messenger Dingo?

If it's the Guardian that outcome is to be expected.

May be a different story with the Southern Times.
  SAR520SMBH Train Controller

David Peters, I have also noticed how long it can take to pull up to the platform at ARS. I've been watching over the last few weeks, when I can, from where I work next to the OCC . Most of the Gawler and OH/Grange trains trundle in very slowly from before the old WYE and approx half get stopped at a red signal before the main cross over points before the bridge.
Having said that, on the way out of ARS some drivers really get a move on out of the station and the jumbos can regularly be heard and seen (from the plumes of exhaust smoke) winding up and getting a move on from the bridge.
Since the NC line has reopened I've also noticed that the railcars on this line really fly into (and also out of) the yard and have to brake heavily to slow for the cross over points on the way in.
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
Are you serious?  You're calling me out on a timetable that is publicly available and which DID happen?  No worries let's run through it...

Old timetable 7:17 (always on time), but when missed the next wasn't until 7:40 (and each time I had to wait for it the thing never came on time).  So assuming the 7:40 showed up on time then, according to all rules of mathematics, 23 minutes but it never did I waited up to 30...
dvdplaza

"The thing never came on time "?

The train services I used daily called in at Hallett Cove. Every one of them. These are  Peak hour trains. It was usually on time from my station, and seldom late into the platform at Adelaide.

Punctuality was typically excellent

The new TT offering is biased to those who demand a train every few minutes. There are no compromises, as existed in the previous TT, for those attracted by quicker services.
  Tallboy-Lemond Station Master

I find the slowest part of any train journey on any line is actually getting to a platform at Adelaide station. The trip from my local station takes just over 9 minutes on a good day to get to Adelaide according to the timetables, but you get into Adelaide yard just after the Bridges over the Torrens and it can take you sometimes 10 minutes from where you are at a stop signal to get into a platform thus doubling the time stated on the time table. Even the tram would be quicker than that if one got off at Bowden and transferred. This slowness is not due to current overhead cable works although it might contribute a little bit, but due to TSR's and speed's over points etc. What use is it having a fast journey in, only to be delayed on the last 1-2 Km into Adelaide.
"David Peters"


Is  correct on the trip from Bowden to ARS, or an exaggeration?

Many posts bang on about how the world will end if the outer Harbor line follows the glenelg line and converts from a train to light rail, due to the longer TT from Bowden to the city. (which at the moment is crap as the tram does not have any priority).

I've caught the tram to Bowden but not the train (as if I'm going try my luck with 30 mins frequencies to get from the gov to the city).
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I've waited outside the station for over five minutes a number of times, so I would find a 10+ minute trip from Bowden to the City entirely plausible if even just three minutes is lost waiting at a signal, more would be lost tiptoeing past the electrical masts at 15 km/h.

It would be good if the government could spend a few bucks on sending some of the signalling engineers on a tour of Europe and Japan to look at some Best Practice operation of terminal stations. With nine platforms serving only four lines there is no reason that trains should have to wait outside the station for a platform except when working around disruption caused by major unexpected failures.
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
For those who missed it on tonight's news:
Seven news: http://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/video/watch/20116701/mixed-reviews-for-returned-trains/
Tens news: http://tenplay.com.au/news/adelaide/2013/12/2/bumpy-start
  dvdplaza Chief Train Controller

"The thing never came on time "?

The train services I used daily called in at Hallett Cove. Every one of them. These are  Peak hour trains. It was usually on time from my station, and seldom late into the platform at Adelaide.

Punctuality was typically excellent

The new TT offering is biased to those who demand a train every few minutes. There are no compromises, as existed in the previous TT, for those attracted by quicker services.

2001

These delusional and punctual trains were full of naked virgin women as well?  Since when did trains arrive to schedule in ARS, my arrival time always fluctuated between 5-10 minutes.

Wow... never let facts or reality stand in the way of a good whinge, just keep on making crap up if it makes you feel justified in insisting the old timetable was such a masterpiece of perfection.

Anyway I thought you were busy calling me out on there being a train 7.5 minutes after the one I let go?
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
These delusional and punctual trains were full of naked virgin women as well?


Dunno about the virgins, I never asked them; but yes, the trains were typically punctual. I have used them for yonks. I got on the train, got out of the train at Adelaide, usually spot on time. My good luck or your bad luck at Hallett Cove.

Wow... never let facts or reality stand in the way of a good whinge


Absolutely. So what facts are in dispute ? Nobody is arguing about that there are extra trains or the 7.5 minute frequencies. They are reality. So too is the reality of slower travel times for people at places such as Oaklands and Brighton. Whinge ? I'm stating an added travel of 18 minutes per day. 1,2, or 3 minutes not good, but acceptable. 9 minutes : a significant difference.

Careful of the hypocrisy, for if one can't make point of slower travel times then neither should one 'whinge' about 'missing the train' and waiting for the next

I should bloody know I would pace up and down spewing at myself for the 30 seconds I wasted in the morning that costed my dangerous lunge for the door to fail that day by mere seconds, and then curse every extra minute I waited for the 7:40 coming late


Pots, kettles ...


Anyway I thought you were busy calling me out on there being a train 7.5 minutes after the one I let go?


Erm, no

You stated

When I arrived at Hallett Cove a 2-car pox had just arrived - knowing it would only be 7.5 minutes until the next one instead of 30 minutes...!


Insinuating that an interval of 30 minutes existed on the old TT. So, every service came in late huh ? There's a huge difference between 'sometimes on time' 'usually on time' and 'never on time'

if it makes you feel justified in insisting the old timetable was such a masterpiece of perfection.


Really ? No, wrong again.

This is what I stated :

"Now, granted one can never cook up the ideal TT - one which pleases everybody all of the time. With any TT there are winners and losers."
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

These delusional and punctual trains were full of naked virgin women as well?  Since when did trains arrive to schedule in ARS, my arrival time always fluctuated between 5-10 minutes.
"dvdplaza"
They were probably the previous train delayed to the point it was on the correct schedule for the next one, and with that kind of delay the virgins wouldn't have been virgins by the time they got to Hallett Cove.

Commuter trains should not have a +6 minute margin before they are recorded as late, two minutes would be more in proportion to the five minute margin afforded to Adelaide Metro buses. Once a train is over six minutes late the central database should credit a refund to all passengers who used that service with a MetroCard.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

2001, should we call in the moderator?
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

The Noarlunga / Seaford line services seemed to run close to timetable today - but the lack of information at the stations was annoying - no screens and no timetable info at all.  Luckily a Southlink rep. was handing out timetables at the railbus stop at Noarlunga.
  davida62 Station Master

I wonder if anyone can tell me (maybe Auntie Chloe?) why there are still several N4 buses running during the day? Is it that some commuters are so stupid as to stand at the bus stop (near the railway line) and not recognise that sound of a train pulling in to and departing from the adjacent station?

Yes, these buses still have passengers on them. Not many but obviously enough that someone has decided to continue to run the service.

Even this morning I saw someone standing at a bus stop less than 100m from the Marino Rocks railway station.

I despair!
  lcb Beginner

As happened when the Belair Rail service recommenced Substitute  buses ran for the first 5 weekdays.So we will have the previous "N"  services running during the day till Friday.
Night time and weekend services will be run by substitute buses(excluding Ashes weekend next Saturday/Sunday)-see timetable on Adelaide Metro website.
These buses are there in case of holdups to rail services and to allow passengers to transition from Buses to the Train service.
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
2001, should we call in the moderator?
steam4ian

If rules have been broken.


Anyhoooooo.... back on the Noarlunga Track. The workers are keeping busy in Woodlands and Ascot Park erecting corridor fences. Interesting anomaly here. Some sections of the corridor are being furnished with cyclone mesh fencing, whilst others got the deluxe Impaler Fencing. Maybe economic restraints there.

Also report back people on your local level crossings. I'm wondering if each and every level crossing gets the DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE sign strategically placed for motorists

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