3830 Trials

 
  hunslet1915 Chief Train Controller

There were a number of boilers stored at Thirlmere prior to their relocation by the Office of Rail Heritage so as to allow the transformation into Trainworks to proceed.   As I understand it, not knowing any better, ORH arranged for the boilers to be transferred to open storage in a disused quarry not far from the Museum, being stored "on the ground" rather than elevated.   I'm sure that there was a report published (may have been through a Questions and Answers at an Annual General Meeting of the RTM) that at least one of these boilers had "fallen over" while the others were deteriorating rapidly owing to incorrect storage.   The RTM Committee was aware of the situation, but owing to the Museum's financial problems at the time, could not afford relocation.

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  allambee Chief Train Controller

There were a number of boilers stored at Thirlmere prior to their relocation by the Office of Rail Heritage so as to allow the transformation into Trainworks to proceed.   As I understand it, not knowing any better, ORH arranged for the boilers to be transferred to open storage in a disused quarry not far from the Museum, being stored "on the ground" rather than elevated.   I'm sure that there was a report published (may have been through a Questions and Answers at an Annual General Meeting of the RTM) that at least one of these boilers had "fallen over" while the others were deteriorating rapidly owing to incorrect storage.   The RTM Committee was aware of the situation, but owing to the Museum's financial problems at the time, could not afford relocation.
hunslet1915
Upturned boilers? dumped in a quarry, that's a good story for the Herald. - are they still there?
They run tours supposedly making money, relocation would not be that much of a burden on their bottom line. - lets see, museum volunteers plus one 25t Franna and a semi hired for 2-3 days over a (long) weekend would be a good estimate.

ORH =  The same government organisation that bent frames on relocated locomotives and sent tenders to the scrapyard.
I was expecting Gladys to clean the lot out. 2yrs on since the election don't think that has happened,
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
They run tours supposedly making money, relocation would not be that much of a burden on their bottom line. - lets see, museum volunteers plus one 25t Franna and a semi hired for 2-3 days over a (long) weekend would be a good estimate.
allambee
I assume you're a member of the NSWRTM and as such are privy to their financial dealings then? Their income, their financial obligations and such? If you don't know the facts of the museums finances, you're hardly in a position to comment on what they could/should be doing.
  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
*******3830's a much better looking engine than its sibling with the disguise.*******

At the risk of igniting flame wars, I heartily concur.  .  .
  hunslet1915 Chief Train Controller

A recent on-line questionnaire circulating in the UK found that 3801 was the second most popular steam locomotive in the world ... next to 4472 Flying Scotsman ... but the British would favour their own locomotive!
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
A recent on-line questionnaire circulating in the UK found that 3801 was the second most popular steam locomotive in the world ... next to 4472 Flying Scotsman ... but the British would favour their own locomotive!
hunslet1915
The British may favour their own locomotives, of which they have a large number, but 3801 still came in second apparently... Smile
  hunslet1915 Chief Train Controller

That's what I said!!!!!
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
That's what I said!!!!!
hunslet1915
I think Graham is saying that whatever bias the English might have to their own locomotives, 3801 still pipped all but one of them to the post to come in second, as opposed to tenth or something further down the order.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
That's what I said!!!!!
hunslet1915
No, you said the British favour their own locomotive (singular). I said locomotives (plural). True bias on their part would have all (or at least many) of their steam locomotives before 3801. That was the point I was trying to make. Thanks Raichase.
  mikado5910 Chief Train Controller

Location: Kurri Kurri NSW
Speaking of 36 Class boilers,

Are the boilers still there at the side of the northern end of the LES at Eveleigh (closest to the CME's Office)?

I remember seeing them there a couple of years ago, being used (or un-used) as stationary boilers.

Perhaps the RTM better check and make an offer while they still can.

Or has that opportunity been lost?

Regards

Smithy
smithy48165
Those boilers are still there and have plaques attached to them identifying them as the property of the National Trust, and that they are not to be removed without permission. Significant corrosion of the cladding on most of them.
  Spiritman Train Controller

Location: Camden, NSW
In the Nov issue of Roundhouse:

"The final boiler inspection has been completed. Several boiler tubes were removed ............(see pictures on this thread)....to assess the boiler. As previously stated the boiler will require extensive work including full tube replacement, roof stay replacement and replacement of leaky rivets. Further work may be identified as work progresses. Work will recommence on 3830 following repairs to 3265"
  Salty21 Junior Train Controller

Location: Canberra
In the Nov issue of Roundhouse:

"The final boiler inspection has been completed. Several boiler tubes were removed ............(see pictures on this thread)....to assess the boiler. As previously stated the boiler will require extensive work including full tube replacement, roof stay replacement and replacement of leaky rivets. Further work may be identified as work progresses. Work will recommence on 3830 following repairs to 3265"
Spiritman
Thank you Spiritman for some decent comment and report!
  Mankythemuncher Beginner

When is the 3830 going to operate again? I want to see it run but i was told that the boiler is broken and needs years worth of repair. Can anybody confirm please?
  GrahamH Chief Commissioner

Location: At a terminal on the www.
When is the 3830 going to operate again? I want to see it run but i was told that the boiler is broken and needs years worth of repair. Can anybody confirm please?
Mankythemuncher
Reading is your friend. Read each post in this thread and be as informed as any Railpager. Oh and Welcome to Railpage!
  Bevan Wall Deputy Commissioner

Thank you Spiritman for some decent comment and report!
"Salty21"


I think there is are a couple of issues that need clarification.

3830 had been "reassembled" and was ready to go. A highly qualified, experienced and independant boiler inspector had certified the boiler, the safety valves had been set, sealed and tagged. A couple of weeks later the same inspector found the boiler in such poor shape that the certificate was immediately cancelled.

What was done to cause so much damage to the boiler? Does the PHM have the funds needed to repair 3830 and continue to maintain 3265 in opertional condition?

Is the PHM still commited to operating steam locomotives? If so, why have the majority of volunteers from the team who restored and maintained 3830 and 3265 been told their services are no longer needed?

BW
  KngtRider Chief Commissioner

Location: http://www.nitroware.net
Those boilers are still there and have plaques attached to them identifying them as the property of the National Trust, and that they are not to be removed without permission. Significant corrosion of the cladding on most of them.
mikado5910
Photos of the boilers from Feb-12 can be seen in my flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48021840@N07/sets/72157629764262683/

I had 'forgotten' about the cladding deterioration...
  johntangara Beginner

Something doesn't sound right with phm.
Why would the phm not want all the experienced
voluteers. Do they know what happened to the boiler?
  allambee Chief Train Controller

Those boilers are still there and have plaques attached to them identifying them as the property of the National Trust, and that they are not to be removed without permission. Significant corrosion of the cladding on most of them.
mikado5910
I don't think they are the property of the National Trust. There maybe state heritage requirements, but as we can see from the SMR 10 class when at Rothbury these requirements aren't worth the paper they are written on.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Something doesn't sound right with phm.
Why would the phm not want all the experienced
voluteers. Do they know what happened to the boiler?
johntangara
I wonder if its not part of the new restructuring of NSW Rail Heritage??

if both 3265 & 3830 are seen as trafficable engines, that only really leaves 1243 & #1 as part of the PHM collection, at least in the museum hall.

With todays SMH article about what's happening with 3801 & the old LES issue getting back into the headlines, it would not be unreasonable to suggest that the LES may become the operating museum & primary workshop arena. which for all intended purposes does make sense.

It may therefore mean the volunteers who were/are working on the PHM loco's would/could possibly come under the oversight of the new structure & simply have their positions reassigned to the LES for their work. Where actually is the work on 3830, as well as 3265 being carried out at anyway.

While I have reservations about this new arrangements, meaning perhaps that by stealth RTM have gained controlled by the back door of more of the preservation scene, I believe that the LES is the ideal location for the main line operational fleet anyway. This may in a sense be off topic directly but indirectly it not only affects the future of 3830 but all other steam locomotives as well.

In the past I have seen no real point in the operation of empty cars being run from Thirlmere to Sydney & return, or even the LE movements to take up their working out of Sydney, a waste in track path, crew times & costs associated with both of those operations, as well as the unnecessary use of extra coal & water.

The storage of the operating carriages somewhere in the Eveleigh Precinct, as well as the loco's in the LES, is best for all, especially if it is open to all Heritage type operators to use during stay overs, it means the LES can also be looked at being upgraded to its former purpose, as a locomotive repair & servicing area.
  Mankythemuncher Beginner

I think there is are a couple of issues that need clarification.

3830 had been "reassembled" and was ready to go. A highly qualified, experienced and independant boiler inspector had certified the boiler, the safety valves had been set, sealed and tagged. A couple of weeks later the same inspector found the boiler in such poor shape that the certificate was immediately cancelled.

What was done to cause so much damage to the boiler? Does the PHM have the funds needed to repair 3830 and continue to maintain 3265 in opertional condition?

Is the PHM still commited to operating steam locomotives? If so, why have the majority of volunteers from the team who restored and maintained 3830 and 3265 been told their services are no longer needed?

BW
Bevan Wall
They are great points Bevan. Please keep us all up to date on the clarifications of your queries when PHM staff respond assuming you have contacted them directly and not just trying to stir up trouble here? As can be assumed there is no presemce of phm staff on this forum to respond for us here.
  Bevan Wall Deputy Commissioner

I am not attempting to "stir up trouble". I am not interested in blaming anybody, but I do think it is essential that if mistakes have been made then procedures are put in place to ensure similar events do not reoccur.

I do have a vested interest in both PHM locomotives because I have donated the production of four videos/DVDs to help raise funds towards the restoration/maintenance of 3830 and 3265. So far the very vague information provided to anybody by the PHM in the form of statements given to The Railway News for inclusion in its recent report on 3830 and the report in the latest Roundhouse does not really address the concerns that the very experienced team of volunteers have raised with PHM management.

I have been in contact with some of these volunteers and from the time the problem with the boiler was detected they have known what caused it. (Other people involved with steam locomotive maintenance also know). However, because this information is not official, in my opinion is has to be viewed as a rumour no matter how credible the sources are, and for that reason I will not repeat it here.

Representatives of the volunteers have had meetings with PHM management to express ongoing concerns over the maintenance of 3830 and 3265 and could not reach agreement on how to proceed, other than that the volunteers could "walk away" if they wanted to. I understand that most of them have since resigned. As a PHM volunteer myself I have not yet decided.

Given that the PHM is undergoing cutbacks in finance there must be serious concerns over the ability of the organisation to fund the repairs to 3830 and the ongoing maintenance of 3265. The support of people interested in steam preservation will most likely be needed in the form of monetary donations, time, etc, and this is only going to be forthcoming if we are given factual information about what is happening and what is planned.

BW
  a6et Minister for Railways

I am not attempting to "stir up trouble". I am not interested in blaming anybody, but I do think it is essential that if mistakes have been made then procedures are put in place to ensure similar events do not reoccur.

I do have a vested interest in both PHM locomotives because I have donated the production of four videos/DVDs to help raise funds towards the restoration/maintenance of 3830 and 3265. So far the very vague information provided to anybody by the PHM in the form of statements given to The Railway News for inclusion in its recent report on 3830 and the report in the latest Roundhouse does not really address the concerns that the very experienced team of volunteers have raised with PHM management.

I have been in contact with some of these volunteers and from the time the problem with the boiler was detected they have known what caused it. (Other people involved with steam locomotive maintenance also know). However, because this information is not official, in my opinion is has to be viewed as a rumour no matter how credible the sources are, and for that reason I will not repeat it here.

Representatives of the volunteers have had meetings with PHM management to express ongoing concerns over the maintenance of 3830 and 3265 and could not reach agreement on how to proceed, other than that the volunteers could "walk away" if they wanted to. I understand that most of them have since resigned. As a PHM volunteer myself I have not yet decided.

Given that the PHM is undergoing cutbacks in finance there must be serious concerns over the ability of the organisation to fund the repairs to 3830 and the ongoing maintenance of 3265. The support of people interested in steam preservation will most likely be needed in the form of monetary donations, time, etc, and this is only going to be forthcoming if we are given factual information about what is happening and what is planned.

BW
Bevan Wall
I knew one of the restorers of 3265 from my days as a fireman, & was introduced to him once only, likewise he provided help in an acting drivers class, in those days he was a valued person who was always available to assist enginemen especially in the area of Westinghouse, he is a gold mine of experience & knowledge it would be terrible to see him lost to the scene, even in his quite senior years.

To see the work that was carried out on the P is a credit to them all, also those who contributed in the many & varied ways, I would hate to think that all that work was wasted, likewise the work that went into getting 3830 back in operating condition, again it would be sad to see all that wasted as well, & that is besides the money that had been poured into both projects.

We have lost too much of our rail history over the years, & just when from an outsiders perspective that things had seemingly advanced a few percentage points, this may well take us back to a PTC type mentality towards heritage.

I hope not.
  trainspotting Beginner

Location: Headquarters

The storage of the operating carriages somewhere in the Eveleigh Precinct, as well as the loco's in the LES, is best for all, especially if it is open to all Heritage type operators to use during stay overs, it means the LES can also be looked at being upgraded to its former purpose, as a locomotive repair & servicing area.

Dont forget the government is selling the airspace over the Central to Eveleigh


http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/en-us/developmentproposals/majordevelopments/centraltoeveleighcorridor.aspx

If it ends up like the Southern Cross Station development you can forget about any steam trains operating out of Central Station Sad
  a6et Minister for Railways

Dont forget the government is selling the airspace over the Central to Eveleigh


http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/en-us/developmentproposals/majordevelopments/centraltoeveleighcorridor.aspx

If it ends up like the Southern Cross Station development you can forget about any steam trains operating out of Central Station Sad
trainspotting

Don't forget the following lines in the proposal which refers to the sector & image over the area.  
The fact sheet and concept plan give further details about this initiative. Images in the plan are purely conceptual – to emphasise what could be delivered over the corridor.

While it will not be surprising at does eventuate with the corridor. I doubt that you have too much to worry about regarding whether steam will not be allowed to operate from Central, for no other reason than if that happens then a ban would need to be placed on any of the DMU & diesels operating out of there as well, owing to the fumes from the motors, & remember they need the motors running to provide air conditioning to the carriages also ordinary DE locomotives take tours out of there & they could also be impacted, which I think any government trying to do that would get in to a fair public outcry.

All that would be needed is to keep, platforms 1-4 as those operating both steam & diesel types, are at worst 1 & 2 platforms, its really quite easy to control any smoke from a steam engine anyway, if that is the concern.  The amount of smoke emitted from Steam in the regular days of operation was very much strictly monitored when they arrived on up services as well as when attaching on the down end, so it should not be an issue today.
  coalciff Station Master

Seems someone forgot to tell the new boiler inspector that it was given a washout with acid.

Wonder if that is still a criminal offence?

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