Copper Thefts

 
  STEAMIN Station Master

Its that time of the year again when the lazy good for nothing lowlifes want money for their Christmas drugs or booze.
This time last year  the Murraylander crew were hit for over $30000.00 worth of damage by the theft of  main power cables from the engines to the traction motors on 909 and 907 as well as copper cables and pipes from them and also carriages  ...
In the last few weeks the DPP has decided not to proceed with charges against the accused due to insufficient evidence.

Last weekend  sheets of iron were removed from the store building  and two of the saved sets of cables cut off but otherwise complete along with two 25metre long headend power cables ..  2 of 3phase extensions with pass car plugs on one end  welder long leads and about $2000 worth of new 3 phase breakers and misc electrical fittings and cables were removed.

Today Sunday 8/12/13 hole cut in fence.  one of the power cars opened up and gone through and the security locks hacked off the doors to the office where many of the spare parts are stored including the carriage head end power cables   the value of which is known to those in the industry   ....substantially more than any scrap value..

Several points can be made here
1 As much as rail enthusiasts  have an annoying reputation if your interest   is genuine then you are also the neighbourhood watch of the rail industry!!!record rego numbers take photos etc  and then if you hear of theft you may just have the evidence.
2 Is it any wonder that a privately funded heritage rail organisation is pulling up stumps.
3 Every other state can do it main line  cut the crap this is the last chance to get a not for profit group formed and talk to the owners because 2 more cars look like going for crew cars  and 2 other   interstate groups are looking at the 700 cars

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  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Trouble is with the Murraylander compound it is away from where most rail gunzels are and so only visited now and again by them. Tailem Bend is not exactly the thriving town it once was though. Also from memory the depot is a bit out of the way up there as well and the vandals know this as they are most likely locals of the district that know the place well. Asking us all to keep an eye out though is a good idea ,but most of us Gunzels only see it in daylight, the thieves more than likely operate at night under the cover of darkness when no one is around.
  Dingo2013 Station Staff

Location: Banned
I did speak to Steve Moritz on the phone and he said that 13 cars will be sold, 2 for crew cars and the other 12 to an interstate preservation group, Steve then told me that the remaining 9 cars will be upgraded with the money from the sale for Tailem Bend and Whyalla regional runs.
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

I fail to see any relevance in this thread, if to provide "news" of copper theft from privately owned vehicles stored at Tailem Bend then it bears merit, as this is a serious crime.

The fate of rollingstock and operations however is a separate issue, and I am a bit bemused in what I have read thus far.

The owners of the stock in question, have made big bucks in on selling various items of rollingstock such as ex West Coast Railway JRA and JTA sleeping cars as well as other rollingstock to GWA and other operators for crew car conversion, they then cried poor and put everything at Tailem Bend up for sale, selling VRS 232 to Steamrail Victoria, then at the same time the same people (whist undertaking a poor me media campaign ) put in a bid and won the purchase ( for little money) of the ARTC a brake down train, of which most cars were either scrapped or on sold to Australian Train Movers with a very high profit margin involved, as a result of the purchase of the ARTC train they now own dining car  DE 176 sitting idle in the yard, at Tailem Bend , with mural on top of mural., and highly unlikely to grace the rails ever again.

Quite hypoctritical of these people associated with the failed Murraylander to be crying poor on one hand and gathering more junk with the  other,  it doesn't make sense other than for personal profiteering.

As earlier mentioned the purpose of this thread bemuses me.
  trainweld Train Controller

I spoke with Steve a few years back in regards to buying one or two of the cars.
For the private preserver/collector he was asking too much, otherwise there would be 2 of the carriages sitting down on my property on the Main South!

I hope that most of the ex SAR cars can stay here in SA & wish him all the best....Hope the scoundrels get caught!

Cheers
  STEAMIN Station Master

SN7  your ignorance is amazing..Your attitude is why I don't frequent this forum often and why the Murraylander was done as a private venture.
Your supposed knowledge of the financial position of the people concerned is  wet dream stuff.
Without going into to many details can you tell everybody how you would pay for the following.
When getting ready to run trains come up with  $100000.00 to repaint the graffiti vandalism that occurred.
At the same time being told by the Accredited operator they cant guarantee you a loco for the train so you have to buy some.
The expenditure on the 900s  purchase ,shift,rebuild traction motors ,gauge convert the bogies buy union approved bullet proof windscreens alone worthover$7000.00  Rebuild all the air brake equipment etc  sandblast and prime and weld repair the body work totalling over  $175000.00.  The best scrap price so far is about $35000.00 each  hardly something you do to get rich.!
Yes some rolling stock was bought and sold  IT DOES NOT MEAN THE MONEY WENT TO THE OWNERS  in fact they are still paying off loans to fiancé the business and have never taken any money out of the bussines it all being reinvested in the rolling stock.
Your surmises over the ARTC rolling stock is laughable and I wish I could tell everyone the details but commercial inconfience with Aust Train Movers does not allow me to show you are an idiot!
Yes some groups are looking at various items but at the end of the day the people concerned  at the Murraylander .will not even get their money back letalone your dream stuff!!
And thank goodness there are more people interested in what happens to the Murraylander  because  remember 3801 Limited is a Company  because rules are different in NSW

And as I understand it 2 if not all 3 of the  directors will not have anything further to do with rail  although Steve M is a hard one to call.
I have not been on this forum for over 2 years because of the negative selfopinionated   morons that  bring the rail industry or in paticular the enthusiast group into disrepute with their comments but that is freedom of speech I guess.
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

Steamin, you are right, I am an idiot. If that's what you think.

I am  well aware of the costs involved in the operation of passenger trains, the associated  expenditure, and you are right again,   people on this forum are entitled to their opinion.

My opinion is as previously stated is why offer a train for sale at the same time as tendering for another one ??
 Kind regards - Sn7
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

Steaming, further to your interpretation of my mental state,

Perhaps a phone call to Nora Mencigar at ATM might reveal the profiteering that has taken place ??
-Sn 7
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Trouble is with the -----
{Snip}
---- the thieves more than likely operate at night under the cover of darkness when no one is around.
"David Peters"


My biggest complaint with copper theft is that the scrap industry in this country continues to provide an easy method of disposal of the stolen materials
No questions appear to be asked by the scrap merchants as to where the material comes from.
My work with my employer does generate an amount of scrap copper which we sell to a scrap merchant (with funds going to the employees social club), but we have never been asked to provide any proof of where the scrap comes from or if we have any legitimate ownership of it .
Maybe a more rigorous form of proof of ownership is required before any scrap merchant can accept this form of scrap is needed.

Copper theft can be stopped if you cut off the ease of disposal.

But I suppose thats just too friggin hard for our governments to do!

As to the protection of sites like the Tailem Bend site in question, we have had these a&%$hole theives cut through an electric fence to gain access to scrap materials in our yard.
So the theives will get in no matter what you do for protection ..... so the only way is to cut off their path to easy cash is to cut off the point of sale of the stolen material.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
My biggest complaint with copper theft is that the scrap industry in this country continues to provide an easy method of disposal of the stolen materials
No questions appear to be asked by the scrap merchants as to where the material comes from.
My work with my employer does generate an amount of scrap copper which we sell to a scrap merchant (with funds going to the employees social club), but we have never been asked to provide any proof of where the scrap comes from or if we have any legitimate ownership of it .
Maybe a more rigorous form of proof of ownership is required before any scrap merchant can accept this form of scrap is needed.

Copper theft can be stopped if you cut off the ease of disposal.

But I suppose thats just too friggin hard for our governments to do!

As to the protection of sites like the Tailem Bend site in question, we have had these a&%$hole theives cut through an electric fence to gain access to scrap materials in our yard.
So the theives will get in no matter what you do for protection ..... so the only way is to cut off their path to easy cash is to cut off the point of sale of the stolen material.
Pressman
Yes I have to agree with this I used to work as a plumber years back and most times we were asked to dispose of the old hot water heaters or scrap copper pipes etc. In all the time I worked for my boss I don't think we ever got asked anything other than how much have you got and put it on the scales. We could have been removing them illegally for all they knew. But yes tighten up the rules on scrap metal and it would hopefully send some of these scrap thieves out of business. Our scrap water heaters etc used to part go to where the bosses wife worked at the time for the staff Christmas do the rest he used to buy fuel for the truck!
  STEAMIN Station Master

SN7 to answer your questions which are valid questions {well I think so }  Steamrail had been pursuing the  spirit buffet  for some years and as a consortium from Melb who have scince withdrawn from rail interests had an expression of interest in a group of cars and the only way around it was to replace the buffet with the diner
Without breaching commercial in confidence I have been allowed to state the following regarding the ARTC tenders
1  The tender was a joint venture  with aust train movers taking all passenger carriages except the diner  and the Murraylander took the bogies for spares and the diner.
2 once the diner was secured the Spirit Buffet was released to Steamrail and has been stored at Tailem free of charge scince then
3 costs asosociated with buying the diner include engineering certification to shift it from Transfields yard to EDI workshop,, track access to do it plus the costs of shunting along with the bogie bearing inspections wheel profiles and engineering certification for 115kph mainline operation exceeded $20000.00 .
added to this was the trucking costs for the bogies to Tailem Bend
4 ARTC sold everything on site including what ever was scrapped.  The only carriage the Murraylander has scrapped so far was  AVDP122 which was gutted  prior to purchase for the bogies .
5 I cant speak for aust train movers other than I know from experience it is expensive to move carriages by road and police and escort costs are horrific

6 At the time  not all the directors wanted to give up

7also they did not launch a media campaign bleating poor us that was done by a sympethetic media who could see the smeg that was happening



As you can appreciate [I hope} there is no obligation for a private venture to say any thing but I have been allowed to speak generaly because it was a heritage based rail project which was going to work in with all the SA Groups  in the manner in which Steamrail is now taking up.

Every thing has been maintained for the last 4 years in the hope buyers or a group would have shown interest. the cost of which exceeds $15000.00 pa  plus theft costs, with limited  income.. it cant go  as it is not good business
  STEAMIN Station Master

There must be a word limit on the posts

SN7 as you can appreciate as a private concern there is no obligation to reveal any thing however this was a heritage rail operation set to work with all the other groups in SA  in a manner like Steamrail is now trying to do.

Regards STEAMIN
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

Steamin, thank you for a an extensive report, on the events,  best of luck in the venture , and in catching these mongrels - Sn7
  Dingo2013 Station Staff

Location: Banned
I just hopped off the phone from giving Steve another call and to him "the Graffiti is keeping the rust away", fair enough but I do know that he is prepared to sell all but about 9 cars for either crew vans or to other preservation groups along with scrapping the 2 locomotives and use the money to extend the lease on the site, pay off debts and MAYBE put back into the remaining cars to get them accredited, upgraded and repainted for Wednesday day runs from Keswick to Tailem Bend via Mount lofty (for B/B) and Murray bridge. he also told me that he would like to run to Whyalla via Port Pirie with a 45 minute stop there to shunt the loco as the platform is a dead end one, followed by a stop in port Augusta. the north run would occur over the weekend from Saturday morning to Sunday evening so passengers "could travel on the pichi richi railway as part of a package or complete a town tour of either Whyalla or port Pirie". when I asked him about the lack of platform facilities in Whyalla he said "all the carriages are step down and he would contract a local bus company to take the passengers into the town".
  STEAMIN Station Master

That's not What he has said because the cost of accreditation etc is  to high as is the work load but if someone else wants to good luck
He has to many other things that have caught up over the last 20 years.
In an ideal world  or another life was his response!

Regards Steamin
  Dingo2013 Station Staff

Location: Banned
That's not What he has said because the cost of accreditation etc is  to high as is the work load but if someone else wants to good luck
He has to many other things that have caught up over the last 20 years.
In an ideal world  or another life was his response!

Regards Steamin
STEAMIN

he said MAYBE at a long shot so that's in an ideal world. Smile

what did he say to you steamin?

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