Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I agree that the installation of all the new kit should be able to be done with night works, get it all in place but not connected up. Then swap over the connections and test it during a short closure of maybe a weekend plus a day or two on either side.

Scheduling that for once Wayville station is open would allow for a better temporary terminus than Mitcham and Woodlands Park, and fewer buses on shorter runs would be required for the short shuttle to/from the city.

Sponsored advertisement

  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
According to a correspondent on another forum the catenary has made it to Mile End and the Adelaide yards.  I'd be interested to see if any locals can be bothered posting pictures or links?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Don

According to some of the posts I am not sure some observers know what to look for.

For myself I have seen what looks like completed works only only closer inspection to see that the contact wire is missing.

Even when the wires are all strung there still seems to be a lot of fiddling and adjustment.

Heaven help us when the skill set has left the state and a panto gets hooked up in the overhead or some similar accident; the system will be off line for weeks.

Regards
Ian
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
Don

According to some of the posts I am not sure some observers know what to look for.

For myself I have seen what looks like completed works only only closer inspection to see that the contact wire is missing.

Even when the wires are all strung there still seems to be a lot of fiddling and adjustment.

Heaven help us when the skill set has left the state and a panto gets hooked up in the overhead or some similar accident; the system will be off line for weeks.

Regards
Ian
steam4ian
I agree with Ian.
There seems to be tendency, as soon as the earth wire and return conductor are strung out on pulleys, to announce "the wires are up at .....", and an expectation electric trains can start running in a week or two.
I've observed 25kV being installed in the past in the UK (once on northern part of West Coast Main Line, then again in East Anglia).
Two observations from UK are:-
(1) When installation was underway, there would be a big team of guys working at a particular site.  Insulators, cantilevers, support arms would all be installed together, and completed quite quickly at any any given location.  
In Adelaide the practice seems to be a couple of guys come along in a cherry picker, do a bit, then disappear for a week, then come back to do a bit more and a couple of weeks later it might get finished off.  There must be more time spent moving from site to site than actually working with this sporadic approach.
(2) Once all the catenary was up, there seemed to be a long time before wires were energized and electric test trains began to run.  I think there is a lot of fine adjustment, testing and certification needed before the first pantograph can start scraping the wires - which is frustrating for enthusiasts eagerly looking forward to seeing the new trains, but a fact of engineering life.
I noticed last week that even in areas nominally "finished" to the casual observer (e.g. around Woodlands Park), closer inspection showed the odd support component still missing, droppers from catenary to contact wire not tensioned and even lengths of rope being used in place of metal droppers in one or two places.  Not sure whether or not this is the case all the way from Brighton.
Another feature of UK electrification in BR days was some attempt to keep the core skill base together by doing smaller in-fill electrification projects in between the really big projects.  This is how Edinburgh-Carstairs and Crewe-Kidsgrove lines, for example, came to be electrified, even though most of the regular trains running on these lines are still diesels (they are useful diversionary routes too).
So hopefully the staged Adelaide - Dry Creek - Salisbury - Elizabeth - Gawler electrification will go ahead without too many interruptions in between.  Better the devil you know, I suppose!
  SAR520SMBH Train Controller

Don, some not all wiring is up in the ARS yard, west of Morphett Street bridge, east of that I'm not sure as I haven't been into the station.
There are CONTACT wires up, some not all and for how far along I couldn't tell you. I reported seeing them being installed on Saturday morning and looking at them as I write this, they are still in place.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

From what I see today is full wiring is up in the yard with platforms 3 and 4 wired was too dark to see if 1 and 2 were wired but I did see wiring going to platforms 3 and 4. It appears most if not all the wiring in the yard is already complete.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Thanks for all those answers everyone, obviously it's in some kind of flux there but on the way to being complete - I'd imagine that a full shut-down in January is not necessary now?  I couldn't find anything on the web about it anyway.  Although who knows, they might do it just because they're used to closing the Adelaide rail system at the drop of a hat!

Heaven help us when the skill set has left the state and a panto gets hooked up in the overhead or some similar accident; the system will be off line for weeks.
steam4ian
I was on a Hitachi train here in Melbourne years ago when a worn/damaged panto bought down the catenary; there was a huge bang but the system reacted as it should have and the power went off immediately.  Luckily it was halfway out of a station so people were able to get off the train without a ladder.  I made a return trip a few hours later and it was all fixed and running again - obviously they're used to quickly repairing those sort of critical incidents here.

You would not expect the same thing to happen with a brand new catenary and brand new pantographs in Adelaide unless (as you imply) it had been gerry-built to begin with!
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Ok I was able to get a closer look at the yard and the first 4 platforms and here is what I saw.

Platforms 1 to 4 are now wired. The tracks that extend out to the yard from platforms 1 and 2 are fully wired all the way up to near the 2nd bridge (After where the Noarlunga and Belair Lines turn left). In saying that there is wiring up to the Morphett Bridge (1st bridge) from Platforms 3 to 4 but there is still plenty of wires missing and infrastructure not yet installed after that.

If they are closing the yard down I would assume its for signalling works and not electrification works as it appears they are proceeding quite well without a yard shutdown.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
Some photos taken this afternoon of the new overhead in Adelaide Yard immediately W of Morphett St Bridge.  In general catenary wire is not being used in this area.  From the Operation Centre catenary + contact wires are present on the South Main tracks at least out to Nairne Jn.  I was unable to confirm what has been strung from Nairne Jn to Port Rd.

1.  View from near Skate Park


2. Detail showing tension stays on to contact wire


3. Side view from Morphett St Bridge


4. Detail of contact wire suspension


Alex C
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Thanks Alex for photos.

Drove past ARS this evening and I am pleased to report there seems to be a lot of copper strung over the Seaford mains and the Belair mains. I could see droppers so I guess the section I saw (by the Skate Park) included a catenary wire as well as a contact wire. I can see droppers in Alex's photo.

BTW, sidings can often only have a contact wire.

There are only sections of earth and return wires between Emerson and as a minimum the up side of Goodwood with catenary and contact wires strating on the down side of Emerson crossing. Nothing through the Goodwood underpass yet.

I note 1S47 agrees with me about the piecemeal nature of the work progress.

Ian
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I wonder if the slow piecemeal progress is due to each of the rotating FIFO crews working on the same patch each time they're here?

Maybe some soon to be unemployed automotive component workers (NOT workers actually employed by Holden, their packages will be very generous) could be retrained to provide an in-house electrification team which could do the remaining lines in a more timely fashion and perform maintenance on the completed lines.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
As with Ian I thank you for those pictures Alex, wow, the wires and the copper looks lovely and new - I wonder if there have been any theft attempts by some knuckle-headed bozos yet!  Those galvanised poles look difficult to climb - it's probably also a reason to hurry up and energise the damn things so they can deter any theft.  Interesting how much they have already (apparently) finished in the Adelaide yards while there's many other sections still not done.

There are only sections of earth and return wires between Emerson and as a minimum the up side of Goodwood with catenary and contact wires strating on the down side of Emerson crossing. Nothing through the Goodwood underpass yet.
steam4ian
There'd be some kind of reason for the sections not being finished in sequential order wouldn't there?  I'm not an engineer but there would be all sorts of factors like the location of signals and associated support structures, the difficulty of completing sections through obstacles like the Goodwood underpass and under the South Road overpass etc. I'm not saying those reasons are necessarily the case but surely there would have to be some kind of logic behind why some sections are apparently nearly done while others haven't even been started, not just that they are doing it because they feel like doing 'that bit today'?  Someone associated with the actual delivery of the project would know what those reasons are.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
The logic might simply be as one contractor finishes their work the next contractor moves into the section the sections would get awfully con-jested if say two or three contractors were all trying to do things in the one section. One contractor boring holes for posts say could get in the way of anther contractor shifting signals or something. So it looks to be as one contractor moves out of a section the next contractor simply moves in to do what they have to do and so on till they reach Adelaide. I imagine that not much work has been done elsewhere on the overhead wiring to get the hard part Adelaide Station done, as it is more complex than just two parallel tracks! Everbody worked on this and so the easier job just got put on hold a little bit!
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

There has been chaos at the ARS today with earlier departing trains leaving after later departing trains and last minute changes with trains being changed to a different platform. Its been happening on an almost a daily basis since the line reopened but it has never been this bad (Signal issues were blamed for this mess today).
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
There has been chaos at the ARS today with earlier departing trains leaving after later departing trains and last minute changes with trains being changed to a different platform.
Milkomeda
It happened again today. At least the hour plus that I spent getting on and off trains and changing platforms allowed me to see that the overhead contact wires are in place on platforms ! to 4, and out into the yard.

It is rather a misnomer to call by that name the 'wires' in the station and out to just past Morphett Street bridge where they join the standard contact wire that is in the rest of the system. Perhaps for rigidity but almost certainly for longevity the 'wire' is more like a double rod. One of the security men told me that he had been given a piece, and that it was rounded at the top but flat on the bottom and quite thick, more like a rod than a wire. Whatever its cross-section and weight, it is visibly heavier than the standard contact wire. A pair of them two or three centimetres apart are clamped to cantilevered rods fixed to the wall of the ventilation vault opposite the platform, so that the whole assembly is rigid or with just a little 'give'. I regretted my decision to leave my camera home, not expecting to have a great deal of time to take photographs. Perhaps another member can publish a flashlight picture to please Don and others.

This brings me to what seem to me to be inexcusable errors of operation and judgement to do with the signalling system. For people in a 'standing room only' train to have to spend twenty minutes or considerably longer without moving an inch while the driver faces a red signal, and there is another fully loaded train behind them, is simply not good enough.  I finally left from Platform 6 an hour and ten minutes after I arrived. There were people detraining and running from platform to platform, and often back again, as announcements gave misinformation as to what was happening. Not that I blame the controllers on the station. I don't think that anyone had any possibility of understanding what was happening, and this is in a nine platform station with only five routes! However do they manage in really large cities?

As there is no conflicting movement possible for the entire length of the Noarlunga line unless someone switches a train from the Belair line, surely some sort of radio control with a ten minute gap between trains and 'slow and prepare to stop' where forward vision is limited could be instigated. In any case there should be manual over-ride of any computer controlled system. Oh for the days when multiple country, interstate and suburban trains with the shunting movements of busy little Fs, Ps and Rxs mingling with huge Webb engines in a 13 platform station were controlled with nary a glitch by skilled signalmen pushing little levers in a signal box that deserved to be preserved as an Australian and one of the world's first such all electric cabins. What a pity that there was no room to save it while the eyesore at the Wye is still there.

Talking of movements from the Belair Line to the down Seaford, my train from Platform 6 this evening used the Mile End crossover that was used by the trains from Gawler to the Show via the Gaol Loop. That was quite a treat, and shows that crossovers should never be removed.
  split_city Station Master

Already issues with the trains this morning.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
Yeah, this week thus far has been bad. Delays every day for myself.  Crowding on trains noticeble. No airconditioning to be had this morning.

So tempted to grab the car keys tomorrow ...


An observation, and this may have already been explained. Trackside : the purpose of mounting two power masts very close to each other (about 2 metres apart). There are several instances of this, but only now has it caught my attention. The reason for this ?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

An observation, and this may have already been explained. Trackside : the purpose of mounting two power masts very close to each other (about 2 metres apart). There are several instances of this, but only now has it caught my attention. The reason for this ?
"2001"
There was previously a fact sheet on the DPTI website which explained the various types of masts used which has now been removed and replaced by one which has a reduced level of information on that issue and no mention of the 'four post' layouts. I think those were for tensioning anchors or something.

It would be nice if they would stop chopping and changing the website. With all the delays and cancellations due to half-arsedness at the moment, that person's time might be better spent out at a station advising train passengers on what is actually happening.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
It would be nice if they would stop chopping and changing the website. With all the delays and cancellations due to half-arsedness at the moment, that person's time might be better spent out at a station advising train passengers on what is actually happening.
justapassenger

+1 on that.

Last night I caught the "5:10pm to Noarlunga" Train last night. It left Platform 3 at 6:07pm.
Exceptional job Adelaide Metro!! (it wasn't a full hour late).
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
no mention of the 'four post' layouts. I think those were for tensioning anchors or something.
justapassenger
Absolutely correct.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Absolutely correct.
Aaron
Not quite right!

There will be tensioning associated with the 4 post layout but that is not the primary purpose.

The 4 masts are for the section breaks and feed points. On some system the booster transformer is mounted on a platform between each pair of masts, here the boosted transformer is mounted on a concrete slab at ground level.

The booster transformer is connected with the primary winding in series with the feeder and  the secondary winding in series with the connection between the rail and return conductor. Its purpose is to is to ensure the return current goes via the return wire and not every other conductive path, including through you feet, between the train and the substation.

Ian
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
It is rather a misnomer to call by that name the 'wires' in the station and out to just past Morphett Street bridge where they join the standard contact wire that is in the rest of the system. Perhaps for rigidity but almost certainly for longevity the 'wire' is more like a double rod. One of the security men told me that he had been given a piece, and that it was rounded at the top but flat on the bottom and quite thick, more like a rod than a wire. Whatever its cross-section and weight, it is visibly heavier than the standard contact wire. A pair of them two or three centimetres apart are clamped to cantilevered rods fixed to the wall of the ventilation vault opposite the platform, so that the whole assembly is rigid or with just a little 'give'.
SAR526
That's interesting, so is this due to the fact that it can't be tensioned as it is on the rest of the network?  And the contact is a solid "A" shape, much thicker than the other wire?

I regretted my decision to leave my camera home, not expecting to have a great deal of time to take photographs. Perhaps another member can publish a flashlight picture to please Don and others.
SAR526
Thanks for thinking of me - I will have to come over and have a look at some stage anyway but it's good to see the occasional picture.
  witsend Chief Commissioner

Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus
+1 on that.

Last night I caught the "5:10pm to Noarlunga" Train last night. It left Platform 3 at 6:07pm.
Exceptional job Adelaide Metro!! (it wasn't a full hour late).
nm39
(sarcasm) I'm reasonably sure that it left three minutes early as the clock on the train hadn't been set forward for Daylight Savings time Razz  (/sarcasm)

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.