TT & 95 class cab differences

 
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
[edit]Topic split from:Chinese Locomotives for SCT Logistics
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11357882-s275.htm
[/edit]



Is the cab inside the SCT class similar to that of a NR in that it has full diagnosis screen on the fire mans side, or is it set up like the 93 class?

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  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Is the cab inside the SCT class similar to that of a NR in that it has full diagnosis screen on the fire mans side, or is it set up like the 93 class?
seb2351
Is this some sort of sneaky attempt at changing the direction of the thread? Everyone seemed to be preparing to meet the rellys that they had dodged for a year. Some-one from Northern Coal would be best placed to answer your question. Hopefully Shacks or KR are lurking.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Is this some sort of sneaky attempt at changing the direction of the thread? Everyone seemed to be preparing to meet the rellys that they had dodged for a year. Some-one from Northern Coal would be best placed to answer your question. Hopefully Shacks or KR are lurking.
fzr560
I thought that SCT class were on the PM/MP and PG/GP services in SA? How many do they have venturing in the Hunter? Been all trained up in the *ahem* "wonderful" 93 class, and was curious to see whether something like what has been set up in the 93 has been replicated.

Move the discussion back on topic? Never Wink

*EDIT

The roster gods have been unexpectedly kind to me and given me Xmas off, I wasn't expected to be home today!!
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Aren't the SCT Class like the TT Class in that they only have a big digital speedo on the firemans side?
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Aren't the SCT Class like the TT Class in that they only have a big digital speedo on the firemans side?
KRviator
So the TT's are similar to the 93 class by the sounds of it as well. Are there plans in their division to install a proper screen on the fireman's side? I am surprised that during the design phase that no one questioned it.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

I thought that SCT class were on the PM/MP and PG/GP services in SA? How many do they have venturing in the Hunter? Been all trained up in the *ahem* "wonderful" 93 class, and was curious to see whether something like what has been set up in the 93 has been replicated.

Move the discussion back on topic? Never Wink

*EDIT

The roster gods have been unexpectedly kind to me and given me Xmas off, I wasn't expected to be home today!!
seb2351
TTs and SCTs both GT46s so I'm assuming cab layout should be similar. 93s should be an "improved CF" as used by Northern Coal so layout should be similar. For gods sake don't mention the hotplate or microwave.......

As for rostering, same here. Off today but 0600 tomorrow. Gotta be happy with that I s'pose...
  Typhon Assistant Commissioner

Location: I'm that freight train tearing through the sky in the clouds.
So the TT's are similar to the 93 class by the sounds of it as well. Are there plans in their division to install a proper screen on the fireman's side? I am surprised that during the design phase that no one questioned it.
seb2351

Similar in that they have a big digital speedo on the codriver side. There the similarities end because the 93 class console is leagues better than any SCT/TT/LDP, etc.

There are no plans to install secondary screens in the Coal locos, whereas the 93s will be retrofitted eventually, probably when the new ICE radio units are fitted.

To bring this back to the original topic, and in answer to fzr560's question, take it from me the CSRs are total lemons. Just because their failures arent publicised doesnt mean they arent having any. They are. A lot.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
A 93 class is really a 92 with an education , they just happen to have the later electronics and Wabtec brake gear because that's what Gonads use nowdays .
Unlike a 92 the 93s are set up to be driven long end leading so they need the extra side mirrors and vigo buttons both sides of the cab . This is also why the microwave couldn't go behind the drivers seat like in 92s .
Yes the plan is to move one of the two loco screens from the drivers to the co drivers side and lose the digital speedo / counter gadget . The new Ice console is supposed to go where the right hand side loco screen currently is on the drivers side .
The PN Intermodal Pac is also supposed to include the larger fridge , all will now have dash mouldings and hot plates similar to 92s .
Vine reckons more 93s to come and word is their eventual number may be 27 .

By now everyone should know that the first six 93s were really dulux reassigned CF44s that had to be set up similar to NRs  .
It also means other operators can get these options if they don't like the basic CF44 spec . More versatile is what a 93 is amongst other C44ACis .
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
A 93 class is really a 92 with an education , they just happen to have the later electronics and Wabtec brake gear because that's what Gonads use nowdays .
Unlike a 92 the 93s are set up to be driven long end leading so they need the extra side mirrors and vigo buttons both sides of the cab . This is also why the microwave couldn't go behind the drivers seat like in 92s .
Yes the plan is to move one of the two loco screens from the drivers to the co drivers side and lose the digital speedo / counter gadget . The new Ice console is supposed to go where the right hand side loco screen currently is on the drivers side .
The PN Intermodal Pac is also supposed to include the larger fridge , all will now have dash mouldings and hot plates similar to 92s .
Vine reckons more 93s to come and word is their eventual number may be 27 .

By now everyone should know that the first six 93s were really dulux reassigned CF44s that had to be set up similar to NRs  .
It also means other operators can get these options if they don't like the basic CF44 spec . More versatile is what a 93 is amongst other C44ACis .
BDA
I heard a rumour some time ago that 92 Class were supposedly going to come over to Intermodal, would this be proved wrong by the (well to me) new rumour of even more 93's?

Thanks Typhon, BDA and KRviator- its hard to compare other locos when your stuck in NR only land Smile
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I'd say Northern Coal is stuck with their Hyundais and they seem to work ok as slave units , don't know if they trust the NY hissy bits to lead again yet . Besides what would they replace them with since TTs are no longer made here .
I can't imagine Intermodal would want to take on 15 second hand coal units with issues and then have to Perth pac their cabs . Most lack the in line fuel gear as well . Better to buy the new updated version with all the fruit out of the box , and get the miles out of them .
  Typhon Assistant Commissioner

Location: I'm that freight train tearing through the sky in the clouds.
I heard a rumour some time ago that 92 Class were supposedly going to come over to Intermodal, would this be proved wrong by the (well to me) new rumour of even more 93's?

Thanks Typhon, BDA and KRviator- its hard to compare other locos when your stuck in NR only land Smile
seb2351

Havent heard anything about the 92s, or new 93s. Thought the January delivery was to be the last. Have you had much to do with the 93s out your way? Thought they were going on the express at one stage though that might've changed/been postponed.

The PN Intermodal Pac is also supposed to include the larger fridg


The latest ones have been shipping with the new fridge, not sure if the first units have been retrofitted yet.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Havent heard anything about the 92s, or new 93s. Thought the January delivery was to be the last. Have you had much to do with the 93s out your way? Thought they were going on the express at one stage though that might've changed/been postponed.

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The latest ones have been shipping with the new fridge, not sure if the first units have been retrofitted yet.
Typhon
I have seen the very rare one on 3PS7, but besides that they are MIA through Broken Hill. Mind you, I believe that they are more active on the Adelaide- Spencer Junction corridor.

Latest I heard, is that because they are so thirsty that they are going to put them on the steel trains. Because they are 80K runners, they can up the fuel tank and have enough for the trek Whyalla- Goobang.
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
TT's and 92's are totally different. The 92 is similar to a NR and a TT is the same as a SCT.
92's have 2 screens on the driver side and one on the 2nd persons side. The TT's have 2 screens on the drivers side and a stupid LED display for the speed on the 2nd persons side. I don't have photo's of the full cabs but.

Photo's soon.
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
TT Class


92 Class





90 Class, just to show a real cab !

  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
93s should be an "improved CF" as used by Northern Coal so layout should be similar. For gods sake don't mention the hotplate or microwave.......

fzr560
9301-9306 were destined to be built as CF4406-4412, but while under construction CFCLA decided they didn't want them. PN was in need of more motive power sooner then later, so they grabbed them and in time had them modified to include A HOTPLATE ! (Someone had to say it)
A short time later CFCLA decided they wanted 6 more CF's.
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
I heard a rumour some time ago that 92 Class were supposedly going to come over to Intermodal, would this be proved wrong by the (well to me) new rumour of even more 93's?

seb2351
More 93's are being built now, not sure how many or when they are to be delivered, infact, they may have already been delivered.
Word is the 92's may be on the front of coal trains again soon. As for them going to Intermodal, I have not heard anything recently.
  EFB5800 Chief Train Controller

Location: On my office roof.
9314, 9315 are finished, 9316 is finished but has no decals. All have been sitting at UGL in the same spot for quite a few weeks now, but 9312 and 9313 have been in service for a while. They seem to be in limbo as were the 'CRL's.
  wn514 Chief Commissioner

Location: at a skyhooks concert living in the 70's
are the TT's set up for distributed power working or do they have to have another crew on the train when they have one on the back of the train.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Well we don't want them and you lot have nothing to replace them with . They were fitted out for Northern Coal so that's where they should stay .
Hot plates were standard fitment in the original C44ACis and those without them were the departure from the norm .
93s are designed to be an Intermodal fleet unit based on the evolution of NRs , the first 6 just had to have the Prem Pac optioned up on half a dozen Belmonts .
How many times does this have to be repeated ? We want hot plates and we got them , and will continue to get them . Other operators can have them too if they don't want the ray box . Bit of bad luck for those with GT46ACes , no choice and no longer built here .

Vine hears that 93s will run West when the new in line fuel tankers are up and running . The only reason 93s are limited to the lowest fuel setting on the east coast is because Railwhoeverwearecalledcorp won't allow higher axle loads . ARTC is good and not sure about CRN/JH . If they ran between Sydneys goods roads and Dynon all good provided they used SSFL . Sadly they have to run between Flemmo Jct and Islington Jct to get to Brisbane on MB etc services .
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter

Hot plates were standard fitment in the original C44ACis and those without them were the departure from the norm .
BDA
Actually, on that, you are wrong. The 93's with a hot plate were at the request of PN and this was different from the standard C44ACi. All other C44ACi's don't have hot plates. UGL were not happy about making the changes, but did it to keep the customer happy. I have this information from a friend who was involved in the production of the C44ACi, but no longer works there due to the down turn in production.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
How can I be wrong , 92 classes were the first C44ACis and had them as standard fitment . Intermodal div also had some involvement with 92 class amenities until PN decoded they wanted coal units first so you got the 1 end leading only Coal pac .  
Yes we know that Gonads had issues with the fridges and hot plate drains in NRs but these have been overcome .
Most reckon money talks and Gonads couldn't risk losing sales over these two pieces of equipment so 93s get a larger fridge and a hot plate . No place to put a microwave which most of us don't want so its no loss . Rumour has it that other operators don't take into consideration what their crews want so possibly take it or leave it .  Rumour also has it that someone claimed that the 92 type dash moulds were lost or damaged but as we know you can make moulds easily enough from spare 92 or NR dash sections .
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
92's are C43ACi's.
  C3827 Junior Train Controller

Thanks to all the crews for the info on the actual operation of these locos. I have noticed on the north west coalies that a common setup is TT+92+TT. Based on the discussion here I get the impression that the GE cabs are preferred to the EDI attempts and yet EDI units are being used as lead units instead of GE's. Seems strange, I guess there is a reason!!
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
The difference between a C43ACi and C44ACi relates to the computers inverters and in the 92s case I think the NYAB brake gear . I understand it's a problem with the brake electronics that makes 92s slave units only ATM .
The actual cab structure is very similar in CV40-9i C43ACi and C44ACi , more so the AC versions . I'm going to say SFA difference with the ACi cab to the point where anything that fits in one will fit in the other . The dash mouldings look to be interchangeable which would make sense parts inventory wise .
The whole C43ACi concept was based on an AC enhanced Intermodal NR locomotive which for financial reasons ended up at Northern Coal first . Had they gone to Intermodal they would have been fitted out virtually the same as an NR .
It seems locomotives for Northern Coal are not intended to haul trains long end leading so the bits needed to do that were omitted . Also the second crew member often may not be a qualified driver so no consideration was given to two driver longer shift operations .  
92s don't have mirrors behind the side windows and extra vigo buttons like NRs have , or the 2B driving console and the larger fridge . What they do have is a hot plate in the dash mouldings and a microwave oven in a roll cage behind the primary (in this case only) driving position , and a bar fridge .
NRs and 93s are still in a transition phase waiting for the updated ICE radio console , the current units screen and font is too small and the way to make it usable was to mount it machine gun style on a post inbound of the island control stand (closer to the driver) . Eventually it will go into the dash on an NR and where the second (RHS) loco screen is in 93s . The second loco screen is transferred to the co drivers side replacing the digital speedo and distance counter gadget and end up like NRs are now .
Operating a 93 will eventually be similar to operating an NR repower and that IS the whole point of the exercise for PN Intermodal fleet units .
At the end of the day what other divisions and operators buy and pay for cab wise is their call , but they can at least look at a 93 class cab and see that's it's possible to have the go anywhere do anything capability - or economise for something less ...
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
I have noticed on the north west coalies that a common setup is TT+92+TT. Based on the discussion here I get the impression that the GE cabs are preferred to the EDI attempts and yet EDI units are being used as lead units instead of GE's. Seems strange, I guess there is a reason!!
C3827

Each driver is different and has the cab design they prefer, I hate the UGL design, to me, things are designed in them for a very tall person. I am 5'6" and find it hard to reach things without moving around in the seat. The EDI cab in the TT's is good, but has it's bad points, such as under the power controls there is a bulge that I regularly hit my knee on. I find everything is easy to reach with the exception of the Vigo button. The best cabs we have are the 90 / 82 Classes. Everything is layed out in a logical order and is easy to reach without moving in the seat.
As for the 92's being in the shafts, that has to do with problems with the loco's leading, but many at coal are happy to see them back there.

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