Lidcombe-Granville Corridor Upgrade Project [Syd]

 
  Aurora8 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
A) Haven't found a thread on this, B) Only wanted to ask a small question re: signalling...

With Auburn East Junction now commissioned and the associated new signals now in use between Auburn and Lidcombe, I have noticed a number of the new signals that have two lights only, rather than the usual five or six. Quickly passing through, you'd think they were fixed reds, but being on the main line...

Do these signals employ multi-coloured lights? (I know the answer but would like to know more) Is this the first time the former RailCorp has incorporated this technology into its' signalling system?

----------------

Regarding this ever-lasting project and thread topic, they are up to stage 9!

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  Highrise Assistant Commissioner

A) Haven't found a thread on this, B) Only wanted to ask a small question re: signalling...

With Auburn East Junction now commissioned and the associated new signals now in use between Auburn and Lidcombe, I have noticed a number of the new signals that have two lights only, rather than the usual five or six. Quickly passing through, you'd think they were fixed reds, but being on the main line...

Do these signals employ multi-coloured lights? (I know the answer but would like to know more) Is this the first time the former RailCorp has incorporated this technology into its' signalling system?

----------------

Regarding this ever-lasting project and thread topic, they are up to stage 9!
Aurora8
They are Multi colour, capable of displaying all sequences as per current signalling. Chatswood also has this type of signal installed, so no it's not the first time.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
They are Multi colour, capable of displaying all sequences as per current signalling. Chatswood also has this type of signal installed, so no it's not the first time.
"Highrise"

Hurstville and Redfern-Central have them as well.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
They are Multi colour, capable of displaying all sequences as per current signalling. Chatswood also has this type of signal installed, so no it's not the first time.
Highrise

Not quite.

Considering signals visible from the Chatswood platforms, all but one have the old style GR-GYR multi lense signals.

The Down "Starting" signal on Platform 3 was changed from multi-lens to an all-in-one signal soon after commissioning, presumably because of sighting problems caused by the awning over the platform.

The ECRL signals are all all-in-ones, plus AFAIK a few in the 4 track Chatswood "tunnel".
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
A) Haven't found a thread on this, B) Only wanted to ask a small question re: signalling...

With Auburn East Junction now commissioned and the associated new signals now in use between Auburn and Lidcombe, I have noticed a number of the new signals that have two lights only, rather than the usual five or six. Quickly passing through, you'd think they were fixed reds, but being on the main line...

Do these signals employ multi-coloured lights? (I know the answer but would like to know more) Is this the first time the former RailCorp has incorporated this technology into its' signalling system?

----------------

Regarding this ever-lasting project and thread topic, they are up to stage 9!
Aurora8

The signals with two horizontal red light (or a yellow with route indicators when cleared), which are in the yard, are low speed shunt signals.
  Highrise Assistant Commissioner

That is wherw you are wrong. All ECRL signals are multi lense, there is no signals in the chatswood "tunnel". And the multi colour signal on P3 isn't a starting signal.
  Aurora8 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
The signals with two horizontal red light (or a yellow with route indicators when cleared), which are in the yard, are low speed shunt signals.
"awsgc24"

That's not what I'm talking about awsgc. The others are on the right track.

Although I don't travel often in the ECRL, when I have, they've had the usual signals.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Anyone, in Sydney, go and have a look at the crane, involved in the bridge replacement, over Olympic Drive.
  Highrise Assistant Commissioner

Hurstville and Redfern-Central have them as well.
seb2351
I knew there was a couple of places I was forgetting about, cheers Seb!
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
That is where you are wrong. All ECRL signals are multi lense, there is no signals in the chatswood "tunnel". And the multi colour signal on P3 isn't a starting signal.
Highrise

You are mistaken if not wrong:

1- All ECRL signals DO display 2/3 colours in the same tri-colour lens. One can see a few in the ECRL dive.

2- OK, the signals in the Chatswood 4-track tunnel, may actually be between that tunnel and the platforms. These are on a signal bridge.

3- The signal at the end of platform is described using quotation marks, thus "starting". It is not an actual starting signal as might be described on a mechanical signal box, but as there appears to be no "Down Starting Signal" on the north side of "4 track tunnel'" , it might be called a "Down 2nd Home & Starting Signal".

4- In the up direction there does appear to be controlled "Starting Signal" past all the turnouts, so that the signals at the south end of P1, P2 and P3 might be "Down 3rd Homes". P4 has a fixed at stop signal, which unlike say Macarthur, and Hornsby has a number.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I knew there was a couple of places I was forgetting about, cheers Seb!
Highrise
Also some between Newtown and Redfern.
  MILW Junior Train Controller

Location: Earth
A) Haven't found a thread on this, B) Only wanted to ask a small question re: signalling...

With Auburn East Junction now commissioned and the associated new signals now in use between Auburn and Lidcombe, I have noticed a number of the new signals that have two lights only, rather than the usual five or six. Quickly passing through, you'd think they were fixed reds, but being on the main line...
----------------

Regarding this ever-lasting project and thread topic, they are up to stage 9!
Aurora8

As far as I know, there is one fixed red off the city end of Auburn platform 4, but it may be converted to a controlled signal in the future.


Do these signals employ multi-coloured lights? (I know the answer but would like to know more) Is this the first time the former RailCorp has incorporated this technology into its' signalling system?
Aurora8
The tricolour LED signals are similar in appearance to searchlight signals, which used powerful incandescent globe and movable lens technology and were used in NSW from about 1960 to 1997.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
As far as I know, there is one fixed red off the city end of Auburn platform 4, but it may be converted to a controlled signal in the future.


The tricolour LED signals are similar in appearance to searchlight signals, which used powerful incandescent globe and movable lens technology and were used in NSW from about 1960 to 1997.
MILW

I think that "Tricolour" is the correct term to describe these new R/Y/G LED lenses.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
As far as I know, there is one fixed red off the city end of Auburn platform 4, but it may be converted to a controlled signal in the future.
MILW
I think it's just a limit of shunt board?
  Dover Chief Train Controller

I think it's just a limit of shunt board?
Raichase
Nah, it's new signal - AN38. It's acting as fixed reds for the next 12 months, but will get routes in the next stage.
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

Nah, it's new signal - AN38. It's acting as fixed reds for the next 12 months, but will get routes in the next stage.
Dover
Could someone please put up a photo of one of the signals so that an interested Queenslander can see what this discussion is about.

The NSW signal system has always fascinated me.

For those interested a copy of Byles's: "The first principles of railway signalling including an account of the legislation in the United Kingdom affecting the working of railways and the provision of signalling and safety appliances" can be downloaded from the Internet Archive site.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=The%20first%20principles%20of%20railway%20signalling%20including%20an%20account%20of%20the%20legislation%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%20affecting%20the%20working%20of%20railways%20and%20the%20provision%20of%20signalling%20and%20safety%20appliances
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Nah, it's new signal - AN38. It's acting as fixed reds for the next 12 months, but will get routes in the next stage.
Dover

The fixed-at-red signal at Platform 2 at Macarthur is labelled "Fixed At Red".

However, the fixed-at-red signal at Platform at Platform 4 at Chatswood has a number "CDnn".

Similarly Hornsby Platform 5.

Thus fixed-at-red signal at Auburn AN38 could be a permanent fixed at red signal, or may not be. Only time will tell.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Nah, it's new signal - AN38. It's acting as fixed reds for the next 12 months, but will get routes in the next stage.
Dover
Ah, fair enough, thanks for the extra info!
  Dover Chief Train Controller

Ah, fair enough, thanks for the extra info!
Raichase
No worries. Check out p. 36 of WN51 (https://railsafe.org.au/trim/notices-weekly-notices?RecordNumber=D2013%2F218953) & while it doesn't say specifically that routes will be added, there's a very, very good chance that there will be main & shunt moves provided out of platform 4, along the Down Sub and on to the Up Sub via 604 points. I'd say you will see the installation of additional Guard's indicators later in the year on P4.

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of Fixed Red Signals. With apologies to the original photographer, here's a photo of a Fixed Red Signal at Blacktown (http://www.flickr.com/photos/comeng301m/6382326895/). It's fitted with two single aspect heads top and bottom (and they aren't tricolours!).

AN38 has two aspects on the top, three on the bottom and a turnout repeater that is bagged and turned away from the track, so certainly isn't a 'typical' example of a fixed red signal.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of Fixed Red Signals. With apologies to the original photographer, here's a photo of a Fixed Red Signal at Blacktown (http://www.flickr.com/photos/comeng301m/6382326895/). It's fitted with two single aspect heads top and bottom (and they aren't tricolours!).

Dover

This signal has neither a number plate nor a "Fixed At Stop" sign. It appears to have the mounting brackets for a signal number or FoS plate.

There is also a hard-to-read signboard.

The picture is cropped so that it is hard to say if there is a train stop or not.

This signal appears to be on the Up Fast, confusingly called the Up Suburban aka Platform 5.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
No worries. Check out p. 36 of WN51 ( https://railsafe.org.au/trim/notices-weekly-notices?RecordNumber=D2013%2F218953 ) & while it doesn't say specifically that routes will be added, there's a very, very good chance that there will be main & shunt moves provided out of platform 4, along the Down Sub and on to the Up Sub via 604 points. I'd say you will see the installation of additional Guard's indicators later in the year on P4.
Dover
This link does not appear to work. Sad
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

This link does not appear to work. Sad
"awsgc24"

Clicking on the link worked fine for me, assuming the result should be Weekly Notice 51
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Clicking on the link worked fine for me, assuming the result should be Weekly Notice 51
duttonbay

I clicked on "Open with 'Adobe Reader' " and it worked.

One minor annoyance. The diagrams are printed 90 degrees from horizontal, and Adobe does not obviously have a command to rotate the diagram.

-----
WN51 at Auburn:

* new dual left hand ladder crossovers East of Auburn (40km/h) replace dual left hand crossovers-with-diamonds West of Auburn (25km/h).
* considerable rationalisation West of Auburn, future stages unclear.
* Several signals have preliminary mediums (pulsating lower Yellows).
* With reconstruction of Alice Street overbridge a decade ago from 3 short spans to a single 5-track span, crossover design in the vicinity not constrained by this 1960 structure.
* Signal spacing between Lidcombe and Auburn used to be about 400m, but appears to be about 200m with the addition of extra signals with preliminary mediums (pulsating lower yellows) as required.


Errors: New Tricolor signal ST426 has GYR on top and GR on bottom. Should be visa versa.

Presumption: Pulsating yellows on old style signals marked 'P' !
Presumption: Pulsating yellows on Tricolour signals marked 'Y' ?
  Groover Train Controller

Location: A long way from home
I clicked on "Open with 'Adobe Reader' " and it worked.

One minor annoyance. The diagrams are printed 90 degrees from horizontal, and Adobe does not obviously have a command to rotate the diagram.

-----

WN51 at Liverpool:
* North Transit road has 2 signals and appears to be long enough to allow a Down Train to clear the Down Main at 260 points while an Up Train is leaving P2 or P3. Km of 260B points not shown, so exact calc not possible.
* The South Transit Road has catchpoints, etc., and might be used for stabling,
* Down Train can arrive in P3 while Up train is leaving P2 (simultaneous move).
* Signal 205 has a (miniature) co-acting Junction Reptr.
* Two ways of terminating a Down train in P3, via 260R or 265R points.
* Several signals have preliminary mediums (pulsating lower Yellows).

Errors: New Tricolor signal ST426 has GYR on top and GR on bottom. Should be visa versa.

Presumption: Pulsating yellows on old style signals marked 'P' !
Presumption: Pulsating yellows on Tricolour signals marked 'Y' ?

-----
WN51 at Auburn:

* new dual left hand ladder crossovers East of Auburn (40km/h) replace dual left hand crossovers-with-diamonds West of Auburn (25km/h).
* considerable rationalisation West of Auburn, future stages unclear.
* Several signals have preliminary mediums (pulsating lower Yellows).
* With reconstruction of Alice Street overbridge a decade ago from 3 short spans to a single 5-track span, crossover design in the vicinity not constrained by this 1960 structure.
* Signal spacing between Lidcombe and Auburn used to be about 400m, but appears to be about 200m with the addition of extra signals with preliminary mediums (pulsating lower yellows) as required.
awsgc24
Right click image, "Rotate Clockwise" appears in the dialogue box.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Nah, it's new signal - AN38. It's acting as fixed reds for the next 12 months, but will get routes in the next stage.
Dover

AT the moment there is no sign of the next signal that AN38 would lead up to.  This would need to be a signal with trainstop to take the train back from the Down Suburban to the Up Suburban via the new 604 crossover East of Auburn.

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