3801 Boiler Update

 
  a6et Minister for Railways

No even I do not recommend chewing gum or blue tak.
Obviously wrongly, I assumed that in this day and age welded brackets would be used.
YM-Mundrabilla
I would not think that welded brackets would be used although I could be wrong.  The problem would likely be if damage was encountered on the cowling, & new brackets & straps had to be fitted, the prospect of cutting the weld off or welding to a new section I doubt would be too enthusiastically received.

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  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
No even I do not recommend chewing gum or blue tak.
Obviously wrongly, I assumed that in this day and age welded brackets would be used.
YM-Mundrabilla
Then how would they be removed at future Overhauls?
  a6et Minister for Railways

Then how would they be removed at future Overhauls?
NSWGR 3827
This was the point of it all, the boilers were interchangeable across the whole 30 loco's, as was found on the spare numbers as to which engine they were fitted to during their service lives.

While that may no long be the case, unless spares were built or to get/keep the other 3 into service, the welding would or could still create problems during any major overhaul owing to the amount of them on the top of the boiler.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Then how would they be removed at future Overhauls?
NSWGR 3827
You don't remove the bracket from the boiler you simply unbolt the casing (or whatever) from the outside end of the brackets which are attached to the boiler forever with chewing gum or blue tak.
  BP4417 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Launceston, Tasmania


While much of the coverings are lapped with boiler bands holding them secure, the bands are anchored with bolts or rivets.
a6et
The correct terminology is crinoline bands which hold the boiler cladding.
On the steam locomotives I have worked on these bands are not welded to the barrel but are held off by feet and from memory were held together by a taper joint and set screws. However this did not stop them being cut through to remove and welded up when re-fitted.
  trainspotting Beginner

Location: Headquarters
Hoping the A1 Peppercorn Boiler Problems (also built by DB) don't continue into 3801 operations too Sad




https://a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=627%3Atornado-update&Itemid=124
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
With all due respect, is this Facebook page run by people involved in the restoration, or by enthusiasts who don't have any stake in the restoration beyond standing trackside?
Raichase

I'd suggest enthusiastics given the recent postings, all of which have been deleted upon their authenticity being questioned with appropriate fact and evidence to support such fact being provided.

I'd be hard pressed to find any reason to believe any piece of information posted on the C38 Class FB group.
  TrainboyEH Locomotive Fireman

Location: Sydney
Has there been any further updates on the boilers journey to Australia ?
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
Has there been any further updates on the boilers journey to Australia ?
TrainboyEH

The initial updates were not from a credible source and the boiler is not on its way back yet.
  Duffy Chief Commissioner

Location: ACT
I'd heard that is was coming in style. It was being shipped to Cherburg in France by rail where A brand new ship ( the biggest in the world, on it's maiden voyage) was carrying it as far as New York. Never made it that far unfortunately as the ship struck an iceberg and went down with the boiler in it's holds only two days out of new York. Word on the street though is  that because theres been that many cock ups with it that orh bribed the company that operates the ship to sink so they could claim the insurance money, whichthey could then use to have another one built.

Keep it quiet though
  Spiritman Train Controller

Location: Camden, NSW
I'd heard that is was coming in style. It was being shipped to Cherburg in France by rail where A brand new ship ( the biggest in the world, on it's maiden voyage) was carrying it as far as New York. Never made it that far unfortunately as the ship struck an iceberg and went down with the boiler in it's holds only two days out of new York. Word on the street though is that because theres been that many cock ups with it that orh bribed the company that operates the ship to sink so they could claim the insurance money, whichthey could then use to have another one built.

Keep it quiet though
Duffy

Yeahh ssshhhhh operational matters! Wink
  SMR 30 Station Staff

I'd suggest enthusiastics given the recent postings, all of which have been deleted upon their authenticity being questioned with appropriate fact and evidence to support such fact being provided.

I'd be hard pressed to find any reason to believe any piece of information posted on the C38 Class FB group.
flathog


The N.S.W.G.R. C38 class FB page has tried its hardest in getting the correct information from the people looking after the Projects of 3801 and 3830. When they got the info, it was checked a few times before being posted on the page, and then that info was shot down by other people say it was false.

With the problems of 3801 and 3830, the page decided to stay right out of the problems. The N.S.W.G.R. C38 class FB page respect the hard working guys and OUT OF THAT RESPECT the page will refrain from making uninformed comments or presumptions.
  flathog Chief Commissioner

Location: Central West, NSW
The N.S.W.G.R. C38 class FB page has tried its hardest in getting the correct information from the people looking after the Projects of 3801 and 3830. When they got the info, it was checked a few times before being posted on the page, and then that info was shot down by other people say it was false.

With the problems of 3801 and 3830, the page decided to stay right out of the problems. The N.S.W.G.R. C38 class FB page respect the hard working guys and OUT OF THAT RESPECT the page will refrain from making uninformed comments or presumptions.
SMR 30

In my line of work 'trying' is considered a noisey way of not doing something.
  allambee Chief Train Controller

The N.S.W.G.R. C38 class FB page has tried its hardest in getting the correct information from the people looking after the Projects of 3801 and 3830. When they got the info, it was checked a few times before being posted on the page, and then that info was shot down by other people say it was false.

With the problems of 3801 and 3830, the page decided to stay right out of the problems. The N.S.W.G.R. C38 class FB page respect the hard working guys and OUT OF THAT RESPECT the page will refrain from making uninformed comments or presumptions.
SMR 30

If we put aside the hard working volunteers....

The people managing this project have the information flow in complete lock-down, protect careers and save backsides.
When (?) the project is eventually finished they will be patting themselves on the back for a job well done.

The truth is the the taxpayer of New South Wales has really gotten a raw deal out of of the engineering, procurement and project management side of this project.


How could anyone argue otherwise?

The only way any real news will appear is from a disillusioned volunteer using a photocopier.
  2811 Train Controller

Location: Brisbane
I think the sad reality that we all have to face up to is that there isn't going to be a new boiler for 3801.  The government in charge of the funds aren't the same ones that started it all. After the monumental stuff ups with the first boiler the ones in charge won't want anything to do with it. It's a different world in the railways than it was in 2007.  They are cutting jobs and costs everywhere and they unfortunately won't want to be seen spending millions on 70 year old steam trains that are only for joy rides. These people are on massive salaries and could care less about railway heritage, they need to be seen to be doing the job they were hired to do or they will be out of a job. Spending millions of dollars on a project that had already been a major balls up will loose them their jobs. Sad to say but I personally think it's not getting finished anytime soon.  The boiler went back in late 2011 early 2012.  Even with troubles with DB, it doesn't take that long to build a new one and ship it out.
  wurx Lithgovian Ambassador-at-Large

Location: The mystical lost principality of Daptovia
I think the sad reality that we all have to face up to is that there isn't going to be a new boiler for 3801. The government in charge of the funds aren't the same ones that started it all. After the monumental stuff ups with the first boiler the ones in charge won't want anything to do with it. It's a different world in the railways than it was in 2007. They are cutting jobs and costs everywhere and they unfortunately won't want to be seen spending millions on 70 year old steam trains that are only for joy rides. These people are on massive salaries and could care less about railway heritage, they need to be seen to be doing the job they were hired to do or they will be out of a job. Spending millions of dollars on a project that had already been a major balls up will loose them their jobs. Sad to say but I personally think it's not getting finished anytime soon. The boiler went back in late 2011 early 2012. Even with troubles with DB, it doesn't take that long to build a new one and ship it out.
2811

2811, for the sake of seeing it all come together, and of course to see the old girl up & going again, I really hope that you're wrong.

However, with a reality check, I've an awful feeling you could be right.... Sad
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I thought that the O'Farrell Government was committed to this project? , Am I right?

Kind Regards
  a6et Minister for Railways

I thought that the O'Farrell Government was committed to this project? , Am I right?

Kind Regards
lsrailfan

From previous RP threads, & when he was in opposition he committed an O'Ferrel government to retain & repair 3801 in an operational status for the future generations to see.

Economies of time however may change things though, especially if additional money is required from the government.  

In the end it shows the folly of giving the contract that company after the issues that was found with the boiler built for a British loco/boiler construction.  The real question is the boiler has not met the standards set for it, therefore one would expect that they would be liable for the cost of repairs/rebuild or even a new boiler, also they should be liable for the transport cost to get it here, after all I also read where several Australian & more so in NSW also tendered for the building of the boiler.

I guess that with the delays all the remainder of the engine should be in new condition & should not provide any problems once a boiler is fitted to it.
  allambee Chief Train Controller

, therefore one would expect that they would be liable for the cost of repairs/rebuild or even a new boiler, also they should be liable for the transport cost to get it here,
a6et

Not necessarily. Depends how the contract was written and managed. Things are complicated further especially if the people managing the project on the client side have signed off on the boiler as being fit for purpose before it left Germany.

That maybe the reason for the delay is DB know they are under no obligation to fix it. They took it back because they wanted to smooth over relations.

Maybe DB have finally gotten sick and tired of the whole exercise and the people in Australia managing it.

And the other poster is right, it doesn't take that long to fab up a new boiler based upon lessons learnt previously.
  2811 Train Controller

Location: Brisbane
It's not as though a government has ever promised something and never come through with it.  I think if they chased up the cost of the money that they've  spent already it would bring attention to the millions spent on a wasted exercise, they would rather quietly wash their hands of it all and hope nothing is ever said about it and people forget.  It's a sad state of affairs but this is unfortunately how thing work in government.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
It will all come out in the wash eventually, People can't be silent forever

Kind Regards
  a6et Minister for Railways

Not necessarily. Depends how the contract was written and managed. Things are complicated further especially if the people managing the project on the client side have signed off on the boiler as being fit for purpose before it left Germany.

That maybe the reason for the delay is DB know they are under no obligation to fix it. They took it back because they wanted to smooth over relations.

Maybe DB have finally gotten sick and tired of the whole exercise and the people in Australia managing it.

And the other poster is right, it doesn't take that long to fab up a new boiler based upon lessons learnt previously.
allambee

The key aspect of this is definitely as you put it based on contract & managed.  The other part is being fit for purpose, & on that score from what I have read that is where the boiler fails owing to it not being able to be correctly fitted to the frame.  However, that then would come back to the fine points of the contract, dog with fleas behind ears & no hind legs, comes to the fore, there is a problem & no way to fix it.

Looks like there will need to be a reassessing of the spare 36cl boilers around the state & try to get the 3 pigs back into operation, as the only likely candidate that may see a 38cl run again may well be with 30, & the dog will have to sit naked somewhere to exhibit what might have been, & perhaps a plastic boiler to fill the casing.
  allambee Chief Train Controller

The key aspect of this is definitely as you put it based on contract & managed. The other part is being fit for purpose, & on that score from what I have read that is where the boiler fails owing to it not being able to be correctly fitted to the frame. However, that then would come back to the fine points of the contract, dog with fleas behind ears & no hind legs, comes to the fore, there is a problem & no way to fix it.

Looks like there will need to be a reassessing of the spare 36cl boilers around the state & try to get the 3 pigs back into operation, as the only likely candidate that may see a 38cl run again may well be with 30, & the dog will have to sit naked somewhere to exhibit what might have been, & perhaps a plastic boiler to fill the casing.
a6et

Giving them the due that they have a valid claim against the fabricator it may cost more in legals to recover costs, than the claim is worth.

i.e claim is 1mil, estimated legals to recover 2mil. And there's a chance the claim might not succeed.
The fabricator knows this too.
........cut the losses, walk away and shut down project.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Has all information about 3801 been taken down form the German Webpage?, I looked this evening and I couldn't find anything

Kind Regards
  MC3801 Train Controller

Transport Heritage NSW put this up on their website earlier in the month.

The overhaul of locomotive 3801 is continuing. The boiler is currently being rectified in Germany. The THNSW volunteer team at Chullora continues its work overhauling the engine.

The NSW Minister for Transport has asked Mr Peter Lowry OAM, Chair of THNSW, to make the return to service of 3801 a priority. THNSW is participating actively in the process to return 3801 to service – further information on progress with 3801 will be made available by mid 2014.

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