If the E class tram order option is taken up, where is YT going to find the depot space?

 
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Hi guys. I know there has been a bit of discussion of this in the E class thread but I thought I would take the discussion deeper...

After seeing the first E class trams out in revenue service (I haven't been on one yet) and noticing A) how bad the condition of some of the Z1/Z2s are and B) how crowded some of the Z3 and A routes have become, I have been thinking wouldn't it be great if additional orders were placed in a few years time. My understanding is that an option exists for 100 additional trams beyond the 50 ordered but even if half of them were to be ordered there isn't the space for them and further depot expansions would be needed, even with retirements of older types.

I vaguely remember that the Brumby Labor government had originally planned for a solid order of 100 trams...until they realised they didnt have the depot space for them and so they went about ordering 50 and expanding Southbank.

If another 50 were ordered for delivery post 2017, where would they go? Where would YT logically try to find space? If the full option for another 50 again was taken up, what would happen then?

For that matter with the D2s slated for the 19, where is Brunswick going to find the space?

I looked up a thread from 2010 that had some discussion on this, but it was before the E order was placed and it was just prior to the Southbank extension. None of the other proposals in that thread have come about...

Of the existing depots, the only one that seems to have any decent space for expansion is Brunswick, which has space parallel to the Upfield line. Possibly North Fitzroy could give up its bus space.

To me (and this was discussed in the thread I dug up, though I did come to the same conclusion before I found the thread) a large depot at Docklands Drive near the Docklands film studios makes the most sense. The 35, 70 and 86 already terminate there, the 24, 30 and 75 terminate close by and could be made to do so with appropriate capacity upgrades at the terminus.

And to float another idea...why not join the 78/79 with the 30/31? It would make all 4 routes more useful (as an aside, why not just do this now?) and the 78/79 would be able to also run out of this new depot!

There would be scope for closure of old depots (on prime established suburban land). You could probably close East Preston depot as an example if you moved 112 operations to the Preston Workshops (which is I believe the plan).

Anyway, what do people think?

Sponsored advertisement

  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
As I understand it part of the vastly under-used Preston Workshops site is to become an operational depot and home to the 112.  That relieves East Preston and probably Southbank of a good number of trams.

The E-class are not additions to the fleet strength - they are replacements.  So expect a degree of withdrawals and reshuffling as well.  Although one E occupies far more depot space than one Z (the likely withdrawal candidates) and therefore some additional space will be required I understand that it has been determined that Preston shall be sufficient.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

That's fine for the 86 and 112, but not if 150 trams eventually get ordered. The Preston Workshops are not ideal for servicing many of the other lines either.

150 Es would presumably mean Es on the 19, 59, 75, 86, 96 with perhaps D2s on the 16. There would HAVE to be new depot construction.
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
59 NO 59 Have long Trams Not Packed Maybe B2 ON 57
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
59 NO 59 Have long Trams Not Packed Maybe B2 ON 57
X'Trapolis-904M
good much english very
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
59 NO 59 Have long Trams Not Packed Maybe B2 ON 57
X'Trapolis-904M
Oops I Was In A Rush Embarassed
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The best option would be for a new centralised 'superdepot' at Docklands at the end of Docklands Dve under the Bolte Bridge. There is more than enough space and at the moment it is vacant unusable land. This depot could house a large number of trams unlike anyother depot and with easy access to LaTrobe st could theoretically run just about any service you wanted it too.
  scrat Assistant Commissioner

Location: Fitzroy North
That was my idea many years ago Gman.

Also keep in mind there are plans to link much of the northern part of the system, permitting Preston Workshops to serve a large amount of northern suburbs lines. This would relieve pressures on other depots, allowing them to accommodate longer trams.

Liam.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
There actually used to be a link from Lygon street to Holden street but it disappeared. The current delivery is probably slower than the government orginially hoped, 50 trams over 5 years. Compare with 22 B class trams being delivered per year from 1987 to 1994.
  NR1 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Warrnambool
Im a bit confused!!! Will the new e class trams replace the W class (not on city circle) or is Yarra Trams going to retire the z1 and z2 class first???? Thanks in advance
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The best option would be for a new centralised 'superdepot' at Docklands at the end of Docklands Dve under the Bolte Bridge. There is more than enough space and at the moment it is vacant unusable land. This depot could house a large number of trams unlike anyother depot and with easy access to LaTrobe st could theoretically run just about any service you wanted it too.
Gman_86
This site would have to be the best, because the site Is a wasteland that resembles a ghetto as It stands today.
  handyandy Junior Train Controller

The plan, since the E's were first mooted, let alone delivered, has always been to expand (http://leader-news.whereilive.com.au/news/story/preston-tram-base-in-200m-facelift/) Preston and include stabling. To allow better access to the rest of the network there would need to be track built down Holden St, Brunswick to connect to Nicholson St (Route 96), thereby freeing up space at Southbank.

While the order of E's stays at 50, and as the D2's are cascaded to Brunswick, and in turn the B2's to Glenhuntly, they are simply replacing and retiring and there is no current need for any extra space, despite the increased size of the E's. They will however need extra space if the option on the extra 100 is taken, and production can apparently be ramped up to 25-30 trams a year.

Parts of Preston are heritage listed and any works would need to be approved, and there is no sign of that happening as yet....wonder if the 2014 state election will prompt anything?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

If the PWS option is taken additional connecting curves at the gate would be required.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Of course we could be a bit more innovative and run 2 or 3 of our top routes 24 hours a day.  (That was an option seriously canvassed and why not if Melbourrne is really going to be an international City)!!!
  gobillino Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
We certainly should!

-5 - Full Route
-96 - Full route
-109 - Port Melb to Kew
-112 - Full route (or at least to Nth Fitzroy)

Then maybe parts of 8, 19, 48/75, 86 if funding permitted
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Thanks Gobillino.  If you take the number of trams those suggested services would need to maintain a 15 to 20 minute frequency you'll find that releases a lot of overnight stabling space at Depots, which is why this option was given some seious thought at 1 stage.  There's a lot of land and capital tied up in providing more stabling that 24/7 operations on key routes would effectively release.

Never mind the benefits of increasing the quality and availability of transport services to shift workers etc as well as the wider public.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

We certainly should!

-5 - Full Route
-96 - Full route
-109 - Port Melb to Kew
-112 - Full route (or at least to Nth Fitzroy)

Then maybe parts of 8, 19, 48/75, 86 if funding permitted
"gobillino"

Or you could combine route 19 and 5, operating via Victoria St. and Swanston St.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Or you could combine route 19 and 5, operating via Victoria St. and Swanston St.
route14
Nope, there is an excess of trams in Swanston St already and a slight shortage in Elizabeth St, so that would make no sense from a city traffic point of view.

Even with three routes, services are not that frequent in Elizabeth St, so reducing it to two routes would mean a fairly low frequency in Elizabeth St for the many people who want to jump on a tram in the city for just four or five blocks.

By contrast, I suspect Swanston St is already over capacity, trams bank up fairly often already, adding another route to that already busy tram corridor might not be wise.
  gobillino Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
I assumed that route 14 was suggesting that variation/combination as a night time service only. I think that if you were to cherry pick out a few routes for 24/7 operation, you'd probably want to look at some route variations (without unecessarily confusing people) to make sure that what was provided functioned as a useful network. Not sure that we should be building a 24/7 network around the desire to travel 3 stops at 3.30 in the morning.
  gobillino Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
In fact, I could see some real logic in this. In the short term, running all night time services via Bourke (E-W) and Swanston (N-S) probably makes some sense (i.e. based on my list, running 109 and 112 via Bourke, and right into Victoria from Nicholson). In the longer term, when you have a better developed late night tram network, you might look at servicing other areas (particularly as the Government's vision for an expanded central city is realised).

If you need to play around with routes, at least being able to point to 2 CBD streets as the location to catch late night services is an easy message to communicate. Will also provide greater passive surveillance (i.e. more routes operating from each stop means more passengers likely to be waiting).
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Running certain services at night could be quite helpfull. I think the old route 77 (?) along Flinders St, right into Batman Ave, Swan St, right into Church/ Chapel Sts, then right into Carlisle St and onto terminate at Luna Park would be particularly usefull as a late night/ all night service catering for a lot of popular night spots. It could even be run as a loop incorporating the St Kilda Light Rail and Docklands.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Based on the suggestions made around 24/7 operation of some key tram routes as a measure to ease the pressure on more tram stabling, how many trams would you to operate the suggested key routes and how much stabling does that release. From my perspective both the 96 and the 109 running at say a 20 minute frequency overnight would soak up quite a few trams.
  benjiMD Beginner

Hi all. I'm brand new to the forum. Had a quick look through a few threads and can't seem to find anything on it... just thought I'd say that the Bumblebee trams will be based at Kew from May 2014. Sorry if it has already been spoken about.
  Some rail man Junior Train Controller

Location: CIA Headquarters in Washington D.C
Hi all. I'm brand new to the forum. Had a quick look through a few threads and can't seem to find anything on it... just thought I'd say that the Bumblebee trams will be based at Kew from May 2014. Sorry if it has already been spoken about.
benjiMD

Me in Stewie Griffin voice "Oh did they now?"
  gobillino Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Hi all. I'm brand new to the forum. Had a quick look through a few threads and can't seem to find anything on it... just thought I'd say that the Bumblebee trams will be based at Kew from May 2014. Sorry if it has already been spoken about.
benjiMD

To run on which route? The 109?

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.