Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
so....who's getting ready to ride a 4000 EMU all the way to Seaford (on a normal service) before the end of the month...as already predicted....I've got "my ticket"!
Top Cat


You've done well then.

11 days remaining in the month and I haven't yet even seen a  Seaford timetable.

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  ARG706 Chief Commissioner
  mclaren2007 Assistant Commissioner

Location: recharging my myki
11 days remaining in the month and I haven't yet even seen a Seaford timetable.
2001



You have now:

http://adelaidemetro.com.au/var/metro/storage/original/application/404f697f5e5771f99fd56764b0529366.pdf

All stops Confused
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
Remember to rename the pdf file name manually. Otherwise the pdf file will only be able to be recognised by one of Adelaide Metro's stupid online timetable names
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
You have now:

http://adelaidemetro.com.au/var/metro/storage/original/application/404f697f5e5771f99fd56764b0529366.pdf

All stops Confused
mclaren2007

The peak hour skip stops pattern is maintained. Showground has all trains stopping.

Edited:  The existing timings ARS-NC are retained M-F, which means off-peak there is 14 min turnround at Seaford.

Alex C
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
so....who's getting ready to ride a 4000 EMU all the way to Seaford (on a normal service) before the end of the month...as already predicted....I've got "my ticket"!
I've been talking to "Flash Harry" behind the "4472 stautue" at HQ......8)
Top Cat

Well my ride will not be before the end of the month more like early next month but hopefully it will be a special type of run though. I still have to get my ticket or tickets! 8)
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Let the grizzles begin.

Already those beyond Noarlunga Centre who think they "own" the line are complaining about the lack of expresses.

The line wouldn't be there if my father and many like him post war had not used it to commute to the city from places like Hove, Warradale, Brighton and Seacliff back in the 50s.

A semi express service would be possible interleaving a stops all on an 8 trains per hour service. It is a moot point whether the time saved on one trip compensates for time lost waiting for another semi express. If you just missed the express would you wait 3 minutes to catch a stops all or 15 minutes for an express and still get to ARS 3 minutes later than the stops all?

Ian
  2001 Moderator The Snow Lord

Location: The road jump at Charlotte Pass. Paxman Valenta on two planks.
It's a provisional timetable.

Note the Tonsley Line times are for the substitute buses. There will have to be a new newer than newer new TT once the Tonsley Line reopens.

Supposedly Tonsley trains recommence in mid-March.

I put that at around 750 days without a rail service for the crowd along the Tonsley route.

Interesting to see how patronage will be influenced once the Southern Expressway duplication finishes in a few months
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
Hopefully this won't be the final timetable, does low-patronage stations like Mile End deserve a 15-minute service during & between the 2 peaks?

Once the Tonsley line finally reopens, surely a timetable with different stopping patterns should be introduced.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Let the grizzles begin.

Already those beyond Noarlunga Centre who think they "own" the line are complaining about the lack of expresses.

The line wouldn't be there if my father and many like him post war had not used it to commute to the city from places like Hove, Warradale, Brighton and Seacliff back in the 50s.

A semi express service would be possible interleaving a stops all on an 8 trains per hour service. It is a moot point whether the time saved on one trip compensates for time lost waiting for another semi express. If you just missed the express would you wait 3 minutes to catch a stops all or 15 minutes for an express and still get to ARS 3 minutes later than the stops all?

Ian
"steam4ian"
You are correct in asserting that removing service from an area is not good.

That is a point in favour of semi-fast trains and stoppers though, not one in favour of a skip-stop "service" which could only be loved by a transport bureaucrat who doesn't actually use the train. Four semi-fasts an hour would provide exactly the same benefits as the skip-stop timetable (increased service to a handful of selected stations) while the four stoppers per hour would provide an even better service to all the other stations - you would get the same frequency but it would be predictable (and therefore more reliable) and the need to use two trains to travel two stops would evaporate.

Semi-fast trains stopping at both Seafords, Noarlunga, both Hallett Coves, Oaklands, Showgrounds and Adelaide which would overtake the stopper at Brighton would provide a real advantage compared to a 'simple' interleave with no overtaking. Once Tonsley reopens with two trains per hour in the peaks, the Seaford stoppers could run Adelaide-Showgrounds-Woodlands-stops.

The fact remains that, prior to the shutdowns a few years ago, the fast and semi-fast trains on the Noarlunga line were packed every day of the week.

Hopefully this won't be the final timetable, does low-patronage stations like Mile End deserve a 15-minute service during & between the 2 peaks?
"greasyrhys"
Mile End has a number of major peak time trip generators quite close to the station - namely Temple Christian College, Adelaide High School and St George College. Under pre-2009 timetables these students would be required to catch a bus or a train in the reverse direction for the leg between school and ARS - this arrangement was absurd because (a) it was a load of crap and (b) it had the effect of encouraging car use for inner city students with a train station right on the school's doorstep!

Providing a reliable service to these schools is of strategic importance to the public transport system - show students that public transport can be good when they are young and you will maximise the chance that they'll be open to using public transport when they are adults.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Justapax.

After a long time we are just about on the same page.

Like you, I like the idea of overtaking at Brighton but additional signalling blocks would be required to allow closer headways either side of Brighton. The we state needing double yellows; and round we go again.

As it stands semi expresses at 15 minute intervals will fit between stoppers also at 15  minute intervals.

I haven't graphed it but I think Tonsley trains doing the all stops from Woodlands Park would allow the stops alls to get to ARS faster and give the semi fasts more headway.

It looks like Showgrounds has taken over from Goodwood. Are the Belair trains all stopping at Showgrounds? This will make Goodwood much less used; it need a radial rebuild complete with tram interchange.

Ian
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I expect to see some express services running from Adelaide to Oaklands again next month but probably not anything more than that
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

I expect to see some express services running from Adelaide to Oaklands again next month but probably not anything more than that
Milkomeda

On what authority?
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
One of the 'what's in Labor's four year plan' listed in today's Advertiser is "Park 'n' Ride upgrades at Seaford, Smithfield and Noarlunga". Seaford station hasn't even opened yet and it needs upgrading?
  yoyoman Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA


I expect to see some express services running from Adelaide to Oaklands again next month but probably not anything more than that
Milkomeda


On what authority?
steam4ian


He's living in his own private idaho Laughing
(for those that don't understand: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Own%20private%20Idaho.)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7t7cGwN7_0

When does the new 'Seaford line opening' thread start Wink

PS - just a pointless excuse to squeeze some 'cheeziness' into the thread LaughingLaughing
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Like you, I like the idea of overtaking at Brighton but additional signalling blocks would be required to allow closer headways either side of Brighton. The we state needing double yellows; and round we go again.
"steam4ian"
Unfortunately it appears the $103 million budgeted for the signalling was money for jam, for that amount of cashola we should have gotten at least four aspect signals or a proper speed control system like ERTMS Level 2.

The semi-fast services will be a must if Labor retains power in a month, they promised faster trains and they surely wouldn't want to expose themselves as liars!

Finishing the Elizabeth turnback would be a good move too, the flooding at Broadmeadows last week having required trains terminate at Salisbury - nearly 10 kilometres away from the flooding!
It looks like Showgrounds has taken over from Goodwood. Are the Belair trains all stopping at Showgrounds? This will make Goodwood much less used; it need a radial rebuild complete with tram interchange.
"steam4ian"
Yes, all Belair and Seaford trains on the next temporary timetables (from today for Belair, next week for Seaford) will stop at Showgrounds.

As you say, a full rebuild would be needed to make Goodwood fit for purpose with non-discriminatory access. A side platform for Seaford-bound trains on the east and an island between a reprofiled Adelaide-bound track and Belair bidirectional track would be needed, with at least one lift for the island platform to an overpass and the tram stop at the foot of the overpass ramp to avoid an over-complicated gold-plated tram stop on the overpass with numerous lifts and stairs.

Sadly, I can't see a Goodwood rebuild happening any time soon now that the ideal opportunity has just passed, it would require at least a couple of week-long closures to reprofile the track and electrification..
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
He's living in his own private idaho Laughing
(for those that don't understand:
When does the new 'Seaford line opening' thread start Wink

PS - just a pointless excuse to squeeze some 'cheeziness' into the thread LaughingLaughing
"yoyoman"
Wow, I'd all but forgotten that song, the pic of the YouTube clip brings back the memory of that song, and indeed 'The Wedding Singer' something I didn't need. IIRC that song got to #10 or in the top 10 here, the question is 'how'? The other unremarkable those similar words is that non amazing film, possibly one of River Pheonix's last, pity it wasn't the end of Keanu too...
  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide
Not sure signalling is yet up to scratch. One Adelaide-bound railcar that stopped at Clarence Park had to creep forward to within only a few metres of the East Ave level crossing before lights were activated. They are usually activated well before the railcar even stops at the station prior to going across the level crossing. Hadn't seen that manoeuvre before!
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Not sure signalling is yet up to scratch. One Adelaide-bound railcar that stopped at Clarence Park had to creep forward to within only a few metres of the East Ave level crossing before lights were activated. They are usually activated well before the railcar even stops at the station prior to going across the level crossing. Hadn't seen that manoeuvre before!
"simont141"
I believe it was posted on here that certain level crossings located immediately after stations have the ability for different "pre-activation" points to be sent from the rail signalling system to the level crossing, the different modes according to whether the train was planned to be stopping or going through. What you describe could be indicative of that, but with the correct operation of a third mode where there isn't any stop/non-stop information loaded into the system and it reverts to a fixed activation point just before the signal protecting the crossing.

There were issues with that crossing reported a few weeks ago (closing without any trains running and staying closed until manually overridden) but I would have thought they should have been fixed by now.

I have always wondered why the signalling leaves the Grange Road (Mitcham) and Main Road (Blackwood) crossings open right up until some Belair-bound trains stop at the signal before the crossing, while other Belair-bound trains get to sail through smoothly. It is not helpful in the afternoon peak when there's very little padding in the timetable!
  simont141 Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide
I believe it was posted on here that certain level crossings located immediately after stations have the ability for different "pre-activation" points to be sent from the rail signalling system to the level crossing, the different modes according to whether the train was planned to be stopping or going through. What you describe could be indicative of that, but with the correct operation of a third mode where there isn't any stop/non-stop information loaded into the system and it reverts to a fixed activation point just before the signal protecting the crossing.

There were issues with that crossing reported a few weeks ago (closing without any trains running and staying closed until manually overridden) but I would have thought they should have been fixed by now.

I have always wondered why the signalling leaves the Grange Road (Mitcham) and Main Road (Blackwood) crossings open right up until some Belair-bound trains stop at the signal before the crossing, while other Belair-bound trains get to sail through smoothly. It is not helpful in the afternoon peak when there's very little padding in the timetable!
justapassenger

Thanks for that. I can vouch for it staying down and bells ringing on occasions. I can hear it some 200m away. Particularly annoying late on a still night. The worst one was 15 minutes continuous at 4 in the morning soon after testing of the line commenced.
  Steamed Beginner

Let the grizzles begin.

Already those beyond Noarlunga Centre who think they "own" the line are complaining about the lack of expresses.

The line wouldn't be there if my father and many like him post war had not used it to commute to the city from places like Hove, Warradale, Brighton and Seacliff back in the 50s.

A semi express service would be possible interleaving a stops all on an 8 trains per hour service. It is a moot point whether the time saved on one trip compensates for time lost waiting for another semi express. If you just missed the express would you wait 3 minutes to catch a stops all or 15 minutes for an express and still get to ARS 3 minutes later than the stops all?

Ian
steam4ian

I've been reading this forum for some time. Some comments are useful and even inciteful. Others are just spiteful.
Yes steamiron, you are correct about the line being used by your daddy postwar and it wouldn't have been there otherwise. Now try to grasp the concept, dear fellow, that the upgrade would not have occurred without Noarlunga, Seaford etc. History has repeated itself.
It is a fact that people of the south have every right to be angry about removal of express services (but not for long when the Libs win govt). My guess is that you are retired and travel for free now. I know many, including you will argue they paid their taxes, but yours were spent years ago dear chum. The world has moved on.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
So 'steamed' you think libs will spend any money on public transport, I have some news for you. Public transport is almost the number one thing that takes funding cuts when governments are looking to save money, this is exactly was libs will do. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.
  DrJames Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
It is a fact that people of the south have every right to be angry about removal of express services
Steamed


Statements such as this make me think that a license should be required to use the internet.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

No, Steamed is right there.

Labor promised faster train services and then instead gave them slower ones. That makes them liars by any conventional definition of the word.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I've been reading this forum for some time. Some comments are useful and even inciteful. Others are just spiteful.
Yes steamiron, you are correct about the line being used by your daddy postwar and it wouldn't have been there otherwise. Now try to grasp the concept, dear fellow, that the upgrade would not have occurred without Noarlunga, Seaford etc. History has repeated itself.
It is a fact that people of the south have every right to be angry about removal of express services (but not for long when the Libs win govt). My guess is that you are retired and travel for free now. I know many, including you will argue they paid their taxes, but yours were spent years ago dear chum. The world has moved on.
"Steamed"
Wow, just wow, the people using stations down from Goodwood towards Belair must be really thankful the existence of Noarlunga and Seaford got them their line upgrade. How many 'thank youse' have you received from Salisbury, Elizabeth, Nurlutta and Gawler for their upgrade? Any from St Clair?

The fact is there is no reason for Noarlunga to have a direct express, few other stations do, granted a skip stop is probably appropriate but expecting an express run for the few down at Noarlunga and Seaford bypassing all other stations is selfish.

I gather Ian lives in or sufficiently close to Hallett Cove, I also gather he must work some of the time, but he is only one person in the region. Statistically, Hallett Cove has a higher rate of employed population (full and part time) than the national average, it has a higher education index than average too. Contrast that with Seaford and areas around Noarlunga Centre, the former is under represented in full time employment, and slightly above national average on part time employment basis. The later is horribly over represented (twice the national rate) in unemployment, and is well down on the average for both full and part time employment. On balance, it would seem that Ian, and the eight houses closest to him probably work (and pay more tax) than a similar cluster of houses at NC or further down. Perhaps you could look up other suburbs you don't think you need your express to stop at like Clarence Park with higher employment participation than Hallett Cove.

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