Mile End turntable

 
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
vine lander,
to your dismay I am a goal umpire for the SA amateur football league, I just umpired a division 3 footy game and earnt $70 bucks!

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  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Thank God you don't referee real games then Heath. Couldn't handle a ref foaming at a couple of locos. Get a life!!
vinelander

And who are you? Know all? Genius? Instant Expert? Or a wet behind the ears bully? All of those things, or none of them?

LET THE KID ALONE. This is not the way to behave on any forum. If I wanted to, I could criticise the lack of care or sheer ignorance in the spelling and grammar of quite a few of you, or the completely unnecessary use of a word that occurs in almost every submission by another. I have no doubt that you could all find many faults in my own contributions.

In short, let's be tolerant of each other and, if we disagree, give cogent and POLITE reasons for our differing opinions.
  touring Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide
Slightly off topic - can anyone confirm that there is a turntable at Millicent?
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Thank God you don't referee real games then Heath. Couldn't handle a ref foaming at a couple of locos. Get a life!!
"vinelander"
Wow, taking apart a kid because he slightly embellished what were actually two fairly reasonable questions... Someone needs to get a life, and it's probably not Heath.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
A partial closure for even a whole weekend shouldn't need any work done to establish convoluted alternative access to Dry Creek. It is well established that DEMUs can operate for a whole weekend without a visit to the depot.
justapassenger

Yes but where do you plan to park them, when there is no access to the main depot ?
Just isn't enough depot space to operate the Noarlunga, Belair, and Outer Harbor lines without access to Dry Creek, which would mean parking them overnight at the main station.

The DMUs aren't entirely maintenance free if something bad happens over that weekend, like say a piston escaping from the block of a 3000 or the vandals getting to something.
  touring Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide
Thanks BIG-BEAR, and well said SAR256 and Aaron.
  MaskedRailfan Train Controller

So, just to summarise.....

The Mile End turntable still sees regular use. (As Top Cat said, daily)
It originally came from Moonta & would have been installed there at the time of gauge conversion from 3'6" to broad gauge (1927ish)
It was relocated to Mile End Diesel Depot around 1970.
Relocated to present position after the Mile End Diesel Depot closed (but did remain in use there for a while after closure)
It does have a 'common rail' changeover in the middle (ie so that the common rail is always on the right (or left as the case may be)) when looking at the approach to the turntable.

I can add that passenger cars aren't turned on the turntable to even up wheel wear, only for maintenance purposes.

Lucky for some of us the internet wasn't around 30+ years ago, at least when we asked some pretty silly questions (or questions perceived as silly to those on the receiving end) there wasn't a crowd watching!!
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
aaaaaaaaaaand locked!!!

we will leave it there, it has been summarised. moderator, please LOCK this thread before any trouble starts.

my questions have been answered, good summary MR! Very Happy
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
It would appear from the SA_TrackandSignals.net diagrams that the Dry Creek turntable is still physically accessible from the AdMet network.

Alex C
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
It would appear from the SA_TrackandSignals.net diagrams that the Dry Creek turntable is still physically accessible from the AdMet network.

Alex C
62430

Yes that would be so as the railcars in past years have had access to the underfloor wheel lathe there at Dry Creek.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

aaaaaaaaaaand locked!!!

we will leave it there, it has been summarised. moderator, please LOCK this thread before any trouble starts.

my questions have been answered, good summary MR! Very Happy
Heath Loxton

Heath!

A reminder, you do not own the thread even if you originated the topic.

Some useful information is still coming to hand.

Like many of the questions you ask, they could have been answered if you got on your bike and went to look. or took some time observing.

Most of what the older amongst us here have learned it is by practiced observation, an art that seems to have been lost, we did all this before the internet.

Keep looking and learn

Ian
  lustychant Chief Commissioner

Speaking of dual gauge turntables, does anyone know what the layout directly on the Pt Pirie table was? It pre-dated the splitters, just wondering if it was four rail or even three rail. As both the SG and BG were independent lines leading to the table there would be no need to have the common rail in either the right or left if it was a three rail deal. Only thing would be the locking point/shaft would have to be either centred on the BG or SG centreline if that was the case. Tried to research this question for years to no avail so any info would be welcome.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Lusty

Splitters have been around for a long time, as long a dual gauge track.

Pirie TT could have had the tracks on the same centre line, i.e. 4 rails with the heads on the SG rails milled thin at the back, then the lock could be centred.

I wonder if somebody who worked at Pirie, like Cliff Olds, knows?

Ian
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Yes but where do you plan to park them, when there is no access to the main depot ?
Just isn't enough depot space to operate the Noarlunga, Belair, and Outer Harbor lines without access to Dry Creek, which would mean parking them overnight at the main station.
"fabricator"
There's plenty of space to park enough cars for a weekend service (a non-football weekend at least) at Seaford Meadows, Lonsdale and Belair for the southern lines. You're right that Outer Harbor doesn't have any secure stabling, but you also identified one possible solution in terms of parking in the platforms at Adelaide Station like they do between the peaks on weekdays - there would also be the option of having them run empty to Lonsdale or Seaford Meadows in the same way they run empty to Dry Creek at the end of the night.

If absolutely necessary, the change of shift for the electrification workers could allow a window to be created for a couple of six car DEMU convoys to pass between Adelaide and Dry Creek.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

It would appear from the SA_TrackandSignals.net diagrams that the Dry Creek turntable is still physically accessible from the AdMet network.

Alex C
"62430"
I don't think the turntable would take a railcar - it appears to be only about 21-22 metres long on Google Maps. I'm well aware that the process of conforming and stitching photos makes Google Maps adequate only for rough estimations, so can someone confirm the length of the MPC turntable?

Broad gauge access to MPC would also be needed for the care and feeding of the SAR-era broad gauge locos run by GWA.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
I don't think the turntable would take a railcar - it appears to be only about 21-22 metres long on Google Maps. I'm well aware that the process of conforming and stitching photos makes Google Maps adequate only for rough estimations, so can someone confirm the length of the MPC turntable?

Broad gauge access to MPC would also be needed for the care and feeding of the SAR-era broad gauge locos run by GWA.
"justapassenger"


From BIG-BEAR's link above "Dry creek 85ft ex Gladstone " which converts to 20.9m
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

From BIG-BEAR's link above "Dry creek 85ft ex Gladstone " which converts to 20.9m
Pressman

Tony

I am surprised you got it wrong.

85 ft times 0.304 (metres/foot) = 25.84 metres.

QED and so a rail car would fit on the Dry Creek TT.

Remember it is only the wheels that have to fit, both the 520 and 720 used to overhang the TT (they were each about 87 ft long).

Ian
  vinelander Junior Train Controller

I most humbly apologise Heath for telling you to get a life. You obviously have one and good on you for being a valuable member of a sporting association. Just keep your eye on the ball! We males apparently can't multi-task.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Vinelander,
thanks for clearing that up with an apology that i accept. Smile
  62430 Chief Train Controller

Location: Metro Adelaide
Tony

I am surprised you got it wrong.

85 ft times 0.304 (metres/foot) = 25.84 metres.

QED and so a rail car would fit on the Dry Creek TT.

Remember it is only the wheels that have to fit, both the 520 and 720 used to overhang the TT (they were each about 87 ft long).

Ian
steam4ian

What is the length of the 3000 railcars?  I have been unable to locate this information on the internet, despite even finding an archive of the old Transadelaide at http://web.archive.org/web/20010423031048/http://www.transadelaide.sa.gov.au/6/6_5_6.asp. The 4000 and Jumbos are both just over 25 m per car, and the 3000s are shorter, but by how much?

Alex C
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Tony

I am surprised you got it wrong.

85 ft times 0.304 (metres/foot) = 25.84 metres.

QED and so a rail car would fit on the Dry Creek TT.

Remember it is only the wheels that have to fit, both the 520 and 720 used to overhang the TT (they were each about 87 ft long).

Ian
"steam4ian"

Well picked Ian, I'll claim that I'd just woken up when I posted!!! The converter I use is rather accurate, but my eyes were not this morning and I missread the result. 8)
"Convert" gives as result of 25.908m when 85 ft is entered (conversion factor = 0.3048 )
http://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
A jumbo railar (2000/2100) is 25.500m over the couplers and has a wheel base of 17.500m you can add 2.700m onto the length for the bogie centres though, for a single car.

A poxbox (3000/3100) is 25.774m over the couplers and has a wheelbase of 17.500m for a single car. The pox boxes are about the same length for the bogies as well so again add in an extra 2.700m.

So with a little overhang they should both fit onto the T/T if needed! As it is only the wheels that need to fit onto the turntable you can overhang a bit if needed at each end.
  lustychant Chief Commissioner

Lusty

Splitters have been around for a long time, as long a dual gauge track.

Pirie TT could have had the tracks on the same centre line, i.e. 4 rails with the heads on the SG rails milled thin at the back, then the lock could be centred.

I wonder if somebody who worked at Pirie, like Cliff Olds, knows?

Ian
steam4ian

Hi Ian,

AFAIK the first dual BG/SG splitters didn't eventuate until the diesel era - Spencer St Platform 1 & 2 being the first location, and in that case the SG stayed on the centreline and the BG rail moved. Great pics in a late '80's/early 90's Bulletin (the ones with the all white cover) including the cutouts in the platform faces to allow a BG pass car to clear. The common splitter we are used to was introduced when the SG came to Adelaide. My guess is that it works better with bogies than a long wheelbase 4-8-4.

I've always had a facination with the dual/triple gauge stuff and have researched it heavily. Pt Pirie TT info has eluded me though.

Would love to write about it all one day. Very interesting engineering, and a facinating proposition to overlay yards with another gauge considering all the compromises and difficulties that creates - especially when introducing a third one lol

I just wonder wether in 1936-37 that they would have bothered milling railheads on the Pirie TT or simply compromised with a three rail TT and unique locking mechanism.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Lusty.

NG/BG splitter have been around for a very long time in SA. They were at Gladstone as I recall in the steam era even on the main lines where they ran over the sh pits in the station yard and at the turntable which had concentric BG and NG tracks.

I would dare suggest such splitters were around from when the BG and NG systems first met back in the 1880s.

As for milling rail heads SAR certainly had the technology. There were two very large planning machines at Islington which only got cut up? about 3 years ago. these machines were big enough to plane the frames for 720 and 520 class locos

Ian

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