Diesel Train Locomotive Tracking Australia

 
  busboy12 Beginner

Busboy here Smile


Just wondering if there are any tracking programs/websites available to the public?


Any help would be greatly appreciated Very Happy

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  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
No. Current trackers are for operators only.

Despite what many gunzels think - they a not part of the industry and so should not have access to the current generation of train trackers.
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
No. Current trackers are for operators only.

Despite what many gunzels think - they a not part of the industry and so should not have access to the current generation of train trackers.
KRviator
Let me prefix what I'm about to say by stating that I'm not having a go at yourself, KR, or the industry. This is merely an academic exercise Smile

What's the justification for locking down the train trackers? Similar technology is publicly available in other countries such as the UK, US (Amtrak), France and Russia.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Can Railpage work with Artc to make this happen ?

Railpage is the premiere server. Having this tracking information available to users and linked I the location database would be brilliant.

Has Railpage approached ARTC ?
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Can Railpage work with Artc to make this happen ?

Railpage is the premiere server. Having this tracking information available to users and linked I the location database would be brilliant.

Has Railpage approached ARTC ?
freightgate

ARTC will not even share operator data with each other operator. That is why, each operator has their own log in.

A public access train tracker has been discussed, and mentioned as a possibility in the future. However, the issue remains that if an operator does not want their data being tracked by the opposition, the idea of a public tracker becomes much more difficult.

In addition, the name Railpage has in the industry, I would find it extremely unlikely that ARTC would want to associate itself (at least publically) with this site.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I find your post largely nonsense.

Operators do want there train locations known by other operators ?

Well they had better turn the radios off. You cannot be serious. Train drivers know where other trains are as they pass them frequently.

IF Railpage is viewed adversely by the rail industry (which I also do not believe) it is probably impossible to offer a service since there are no other sites which could do it. Loco locations sites in the uk are private according to research.

Who else could do it ?
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
What's wrong with the good 'ol grapevine? Person A posts that train X has passed location M for person B to catch further down the line. Of course, this requires that people post when they see something...

As an aside, the UK has an interesting set-up with their Real Time Trains site. I'm not sure if it's official or not but type the location in, add a variable or two and it'll tell you what trains are coming and when!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I find your post largely nonsense.

Operators do want there train locations known by other operators ?

Well they had better turn the radios off. You cannot be serious. Train drivers know where other trains are as they pass them frequently.

IF Railpage is viewed adversely by the rail industry (which I also do not believe) it is probably impossible to offer a service since there are no other sites which could do it. Loco locations sites in the uk are private according to research.

Who else could do it ?
freightgate



The data offered by the ICE system is commercial in nature, and any contracts manager worth their salt would be able to exploit such information when it comes up to contract review time. Operators do not want to give such information out on a silver platter to their competitors, which is why it is restrict. There continue to be other, more intensive ways to get this information however.



Post edited: Removed snide comments
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Don't blame me that you feel this way. I am not interested in what people think of Railpage. It is not my site.

I am however interested in why your views on train data are such.

If operators wanted to know who runs where there is the public mtp which is available on the ARTC site.

I don't view your reasons for not granting access to train tracking systems in a controlled environment and with conditions for reasons of commercial sensitively.

I am glad you shared that fact you assisted in building the system. Not sure how this makes you qualified to offer reasoning behind not granting access.

I am happy to hear an unqualified view which is what you have offered.

You admit yourself this data is already available via other means. Why is it then a problem. ?

I know we are all dumb on here.

Asciano don't seem to think this site is not worth being on.
  X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
there is a other thread about this it said thatyou have to work at ARTC or be a shareholder of ARTC
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Don't blame me that you feel this way. I am not interested in what people think of Railpage. It is not my site.

I am however interested in why your views on train data are such.

If operators wanted to know who runs where there is the public mtp which is available on the ARTC site.

I don't view your reasons for not granting access to train tracking systems in a controlled environment and with conditions for reasons of commercial sensitively.

I am glad you shared that fact you assisted in building the system. Not sure how this makes you qualified to offer reasoning behind not granting access.

I am happy to hear an unqualified view which is what you have offered.

You admit yourself this data is already available via other means. Why is it then a problem. ?

I know we are all dumb on here.

Asciano don't seem to think this site is not worth being on.
freightgate

Taking a breath and starting afresh.

The issue is, the data offered by ICE is considerably different that that could by offered by the old system. In both functionality, and type.
THAT is the issue. It is hard to explain what exactly it is, without going into specific as I am bound by privacy agreements on what can be shared. Suffice to say, I believe the problem here is that the general population do not understand the complexity of the new system, and additionally how it is difficult to remove those features to reach a level that balances the needs of the operators desire to keep that information private, and the information that normal people could find useful.

The delay in generating that public version, which I mentioned earlier is directly a result of the need to spend money to provide a service to the public. Money that is not available, resources that are not available and for an issue that it basically outside the scope of ARTC's strategic operations. They do not exist to provide the information to the public. It is not a desire to stroke white cats and laugh a maniac laugh at the plight of the trainspotter, rather that it is not a priority.

Does that explain it a bit better?
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
there is a other thread about this it said thatyou have to work at ARTC or be a shareholder of ARTC
X'Trapolis-904M

Correct
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I am an Australian so I am a shareholder of ARTC.
  Typhon Assistant Commissioner

Location: I'm that freight train tearing through the sky in the clouds.
IF Railpage is viewed adversely by the rail industry (which I also do not believe)
freightgate


I dont think too many people in the industry care about the place at all tbh.

I also fail to see why the general public need (I can see why they want access but need and want is not the same thing) access to train tracker systems. Rail oeprators have all the info they need on their own and competitor's trains.
  MD Chief Commissioner

Location: Canbera
ARTC has 2 shareholders, they being the Minister for Infrastructure  and the Minister for Finance.
There are NO other shareholders.
Contrary to public belief, being an Australian doesnt make you a shareholder in anything.
  Johnmc Moderator

Location: Cloncurry, Queensland
It is not a desire to stroke white cats and laugh a maniac laugh at the plight of the trainspotter, rather that it is not a priority.
seb2351

Meanwhile, at ARTC HQ...



Ok, jumping in at the deep end here, from what I can make out:

1. ARTC train tracking is proprietry technology, and not open source.  (I'm assuming that aircraft, ship and foreign train trackers are?)
2. That being the case, ARTC can divulge as much or as little of the technology as it likes, and has no obligation to give out any public information, regardless of how fair or unfair it may seem.

I'm not opposed to the idea of a tracking system, I don't think our gunzels are any more or less unbalanced than anywhere else in the world, and I haven't heard of trackers causing any harm elsewhere.Smile

But, based on the information on this thread, I don't believe that we will be getting it anytime soon.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
What's the justification for locking down the train trackers? Similar technology is publicly available in other countries such as the UK, US (Amtrak), France and Russia.
MGH

At a guess, commercial-in-confidence agreements with the operators, perhaps crewing privacy constraints, but that's all that'd be - a guess.

ARTC will not even share operator data with each other operator. That is why, each operator has their own log in.

A public access train tracker has been discussed, and mentioned as a possibility in the future. However, the issue remains that if an operator does not want their data being tracked by the opposition, the idea of a public tracker becomes much more difficult.

In addition, the name Railpage has in the industry, I would find it extremely unlikely that ARTC would want to associate itself (at least publically) with this site.
I find your post largely nonsense.

Operators do want there train locations known by other operators ?
freightgate

seb2351

That's correct. If QR consistently runs Macarthur to Dynon in X hours, and PN does it in X+2, questions might be asked. Questions that certain people might have trouble answering. I'm certainly not suggesting this occurs, but it is one possibility for not wanting loco locations disclosed.
Well they had better turn the radios off. You cannot be serious. Train drivers know where other trains are as they pass them frequently.
freightgate

Rriiigggghttt... Crewed a train in NSW recently?

IF Railpage is viewed adversely by the rail industry (which I also do not believe).....
freightgate

Why don't you believe it? Care to state your experience in this regard?

If operators wanted to know who runs where there is the public mtp which is available on the ARTC site.
freightgate

That's right. There is. But it's a plan. What happens in the real world is vastly different. Who gets priority if the XPT is late? Who runs through the single-like caused by a train stopped by an HDB first?

Asciano don't seem to think this site is not worth being on
freightgate

They most certainly do...IT's one thing for an office worker to disclose administrative things and the like. Operational things are something entirely different. Just try to publish PN's radio frequencies and see what happens! Even though you can get them from the ACMA database.... :rolleyes:

I am an Australian so I am a shareholder of ARTC
freightgate

Pull your head in. That kind of gimmiepig attitude isn't going to win you any favours.

I am personally against the idea of public-access train trackers. Information of an operational nature is just that. For the use of those operationally involved. Not a bunch of foamers who tend to do stupid things to get "that" shot.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Can Railpage work with Artc to make this happen ?
freightgate

Freightgate, can you please tell me when you're going to drive home from work?
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I am personally against the idea of public-access train trackers. Information of an operational nature is just that. For the use of those operationally involved. Not a bunch of foamers who tend to do stupid things to get "that" shot.
KRviator

I seem to recall an anecdote that did the rounds shortly before the public Countrynet tracking website was switched off. An ARTC work ute pulled up at an access gate and noticed a photographer (for want of a better term) skylarking around (again, for want of a better term) on/near the running line. When challenged, the photographer reportedly showed the ARTC trackworkers (who would be in contact with control prior to even considering approaching a live running line) the Countrynet tracking website viewed on his phone saying "it's alright, there's no trains around".

It remains to be seen how much truth there is to this story, but the website was switched off a month or so later.

The RailCorp TLS system has a large disclaimer all over it - this is NOT to be used as a safeworking system. There is zero substitute for talking to the signaller or area controller to find out where the rail traffic is prior to accessing the danger zone. This is just one reason why the general public are not given free access to the tracking system.

I noticed when the website was taken down, Facebook groups started being set up to create a simple and effective way of passing sightings on. I post all of my sightings on the "Train Tracking Australia" group as well as an older group set up during the introduction of ICE radios. In a way, it's actually better than the old train tracking website, as ALL of the locomotive data, as well as the consist is typically shared, so you know exactly what is approaching. Bob from Newcastle might suggest that an SSR works train is heading towards Sydney behind five streamliners, towing whatever wagons. That then allows Steve from Gosford to get a shot, and report that the train has been put away in the loop. Terry at Cowan then knows he has time to get trackside and he reports the train has gone into the loop at Cowan.

Cue me pulling up on the Sydney-end of Cowan loop to get a photo myself, then passing the information on to folks who might be waiting down the line at North Strathfield.

Sadly in this hobby, people see train running information as some kind of power over others - if THEY get the special train photo and nobody else gets it, then they're the top dog. They seem to be afraid that someone ELSE might get a photo too, and it might be BETTER than their own (shock horror).

For the record, if ARTC is listening, I'd gladly pay a small subscription fee for a watered down train tracking system "app" that would work on an iSomething/Android device. Ie just loco number/train number and last location. Doesn't have to be super detailed, just enough that if one is looking for a train, one can find it. I'm certainly not going to use it to start my own Melbourne to Brisbane freighter. Not THIS week, anyway...
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
For the record, if ARTC is listening, I'd gladly pay a small subscription fee for a watered down train tracking system "app" that would work on an iSomething/Android device. Ie just loco number/train number and last location. Doesn't have to be super detailed, just enough that if one is looking for a train, one can find it. I'm certainly not going to use it to start my own Melbourne to Brisbane freighter. Not THIS week, anyway...
Raichase


There are technical challenges with distributing this data mostly due to the unavailability of interfaces.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
You have a habit bevans of dropping little pearls of wisdom and in doing so leaving us wondering.

Care to share more detail ?

What are you really up to ?
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
You have a habit bevans of dropping little pearls of wisdom and in doing so leaving us wondering.

Care to share more detail ?

What are you really up to ?
freightgate

I'm reading it simply as it can't happen due to one or more reasons, some technical in nature, some not.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
You have a habit bevans of dropping little pearls of wisdom and in doing so leaving us wondering.

Care to share more detail ?

What are you really up to ?
freightgate

bevans is known to be part of the technology business, which has stood Railpage in good stead - look at some of the massive upgrades the site has seen in the last 12-24 months. I don't believe he needs to reveal anything to anyone...
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
bevans is known to be part of the technology business, which has stood Railpage in good stead - look at some of the massive upgrades the site has seen in the last 12-24 months. I don't believe he needs to reveal anything to anyone...
Raichase

I agree - I respect bevans for this reason exactly - He knows a lot more than probably even the teachers at most TAFE campuses.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
This is my point exactly. I would not be surprised at all if he was working behind the scenes. How would he know there were technical challenges unless he had looked ?

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