Mods to 5000s and 5020s to increse hauling capacity ?

 
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
According to the Digest Aurison is trialling 5000s and 5020s with a few extra tonnes in them to increase their hauling capacity . The numbers quoted are from 176 t0 180 tonnes and the train lengths going from 74 to 84 120T hoppers .
It says the trials used 86 wagon trains and had a third engine hauled dead just in case .
If they are hauling 10320 tonnes around with two units that should make for efficient running provided the reliability is good and the speed on the grades is acceptable .
Does anyone know where the 4 extra tonnes are added ? Probably not as simply as with a 6000 but that's another story .

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  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Good to see adhesive weight trumping software upgrades for once. In the US CSX has been fortifying its AC units with extra weight for more than a decade to squeeze all that additional tractive effort onto the rails. If lifting the trains is more important than speed - and if the track can take it - more adhesive weight is definitely the pathway to increased efficiency.
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
The TTs got ballast pods attached behind each pilot to raise their weight from 134t to 139t didn't they? Maybe Aurizon has done the same?
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
If Aurison can get it to work reliably then there are efficiencies to be had and money to be saved . We don't often get to see what almost US equivalent performance is like here on the east coast and no one else has anything comparable . I'd be interested to know the balance speed of a ballasted 5020 with 5160T in tow on the ruleing grades up there .
I doubt the system could handle 126 hopper trains of almost 15500T but three porked up 5020s may make it a reality in DP mode .  
Anyway the bottom line is that lowest overheads equals best returns and financial viability .
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
The Aurizon train with 3 loco's on it has 82 wagons and last time it passed me all 3 loco's were on line. It is the rake they are running to Gunnedah. From memory all 3 loco's were 5020's.
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
Just to add, I hate following an Aurizon train, they are very slow up the hills.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I think most bulk train operators agree that the economics is providing enough motive power to climb the longest steepest grades and no more . If fewer higher traction units are used the job gets done but the speed suffers . If the priority was faster running times then they need more power .
I guess that's the reality of 180T units that can reliably drag 5000 tonnes compared to 134T units that can reliably do 3500-4000 tonnes on I assume 1:80 grades .
I reckon if PN Northern Coal had 5020s they'd want to do it too .
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Where does all the extra weight come from between 140-180t locos?

40tons is 5m3 of steel. Where do they put it all ? Main frame ? thicker hood panels ?
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Where does all the extra weight come from between 140-180t locos?

40tons is 5m3 of steel. Where do they put it all ? Main frame ? thicker hood panels ?
DBclass

They're not adding 40 tonnes of ballast.

The 5000's are already 176 tonne, so they're only adding 4 tonnes, which I'd imagine wouldn't be too difficult to tuck away.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
They're not adding 40 tonnes of ballast.

The 5000's are already 176 tonne, so they're only adding 4 tonnes, which I'd imagine wouldn't be too difficult to tuck away.
KRviator

Nar I meant where do they get 40tonnes of extra weight on a loco? Do they just go wild with material thicknesses or what?
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Material thickness yes, I believe the sheets making up the frame are quite a bit thicker than the same sections on the NR class.
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
Material thickness yes, I believe the sheets making up the frame are quite a bit thicker than the same sections on the NR class.
GT46C-ACe

I would be curious to know by how much
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
5000s and 5020s I believe have North American GE bogies under them and that would add a fair bit of weight too .
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
5000s and 5020s I believe have North American GE bogies under them and that would add a fair bit of weight too .
BDA


I saw a pair at Hexam, I wanted better photos but couldn't get them. Not used to the fences that are over there.
  M636C Minister for Railways

5000s and 5020s I believe have North American GE bogies under them and that would add a fair bit of weight too .
BDA

The bogie weights are on the builder's plates

5000 class bogie 28.6 tonnes

92 class bogie 20.3 tonnes

So 16.6 tonnes difference from the bogies.

The upper and lower frame plates on a 5000 or 5020 are clearly visible and appear to be at least 75 mm.

M636C
  EFB5800 Chief Train Controller

Location: On my office roof.
The 'big one' just went out through Hexham. 2 5020s and a 5000 with 86 cars. Not much more for an extra engine. All of the Aurizon sets running around the lower parts of the northern system seem to be 2 units with 82 cars these days. Was 74 for many years.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

The 'big one' just went out through Hexham. 2 5020s and a 5000 with 86 cars. Not much more for an extra engine. All of the Aurizon sets running around the lower parts of the northern system seem to be 2 units with 82 cars these days. Was 74 for many years.
EFB5800


Aurizon has just boosted the tonnage ratings for the 2800s in Queensland too after 19 years. Their fleet efficiency drive seems to be focussing on 'just enough' horsepower/tonne ratios.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Was the third unit powering or just there for insurance , the Digest mentioned testing going on . I suppose if Aurison can afford to spare the third unit and only use it on the steepest grades the extra 1100T of coal (or 1440 gross) can't hurt .
Back in the early 90s SRA had Northern Coal and they used 3 81s on 7200T and 4 on 8400T , till they got sick of draw bar failures .
  EFB5800 Chief Train Controller

Location: On my office roof.
Not sure about how many powering today, but I have seen the 3 unit combos a few times on the flat stretch between Maitland and the port with all 3 smoking. But some of these GEs smoke quite well at idle. I haven't managed to have a listen, I'm always in my noisy office on wheels.
On at least one sighting the wagons were full, not part loaded like the Gunnedah runs. Have the Gunnedah runs now been lifted to 120t per wagon?
  DBclass Chief Commissioner

Location: Western Australia
The bogie weights are on the builder's plates

5000 class bogie 28.6 tonnes

92 class bogie 20.3 tonnes

So 16.6 tonnes difference from the bogies.

The upper and lower frame plates on a 5000 or 5020 are clearly visible and appear to be at least 75 mm.

M636C
M636C


The EDI JT42C has 60MM thick flanges over the bogies, 40MM or so either side, and perhaps 25MM thick flanges on the main chassis beam over the fuel tank, so 75+ would add a good deal. Would it be fair to say they are 300MM or so wide the flanges?

Would add some cost to manufacturing also being that heavy, handling, rolling / pressing, drilling, if any required would be increased, plus burning gas to heat the damn stuff to weld it effectively. Interesting stuff but.

Thanks.
  EFB5800 Chief Train Controller

Location: On my office roof.
Big one on the up at Hexham this morning was 5026, 5023 and 5009 with 86 cars. Looked to be light loaded wagons from Gunnedah. 5009 was powering. 5023 sounded dead or cut out. 5026 had a water container on the right side walkway with 2 hoses running to the front. Most likely a soapy mix for adhesion testing.

Cheers, Matt.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
It will be interesting to see if Aurison updates the cooling systems and power output on 5000s when it's time to overhaul . More useful having weight that does something more positive than just being ballast . Probably asking too much to use the USDM fan forced intercoolers .
United haven't shown much interest in later power units but I think the later build units may have Evolution style control systems .
I think units in the 180 tonne area could use more than 4500 horsepower and it would make bulk trains a bit faster on less than the ruling grades with unit reductions . Something for the bean counters to mull over .
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
All C44s after the 92cl have the GEVO electrical systems iirc.
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Not related to their weight but what is the actual length of the 5000cl, 20.83m or 22m?
  Shacks Ghanzel

Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant Upper Hunter
Big one on the up at Hexham this morning was 5026, 5023 and 5009 with 86 cars. Looked to be light loaded wagons from Gunnedah. 5009 was powering. 5023 sounded dead or cut out. 5026 had a water container on the right side walkway with 2 hoses running to the front. Most likely a soapy mix for adhesion testing.

Cheers, Matt.
EFB5800

That train would be 100m to long to run to Gunnedah.

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