Embarrassed apology from Bendigo

 
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
It's been really embarrassing for Bendigo this week.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-Mosque-in-Bendigo/1409152012662221

The city has probably now sunk to the same depths as Cronulla in the national consciousness.

I can assure you that despite the noise they make, this mob is NOT representative of good Bendigonians.  For generations, ever since the gold rush we've lived harmoniously with people of all cultures, including a heritage of Afghan spice hawkers plying their trade.

Sorry.

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
There's a mosque in Preston, not far from where I live. The area is quiet and orderly, the muslim people have introduced some interesting foods into the area, and shops where we can buy them. Property values have gone up the same as anywhere else, and the muslim people don't keep neighbours awake at night with standard Ocker p1sshead parties.
The small rabble group in Bendigo has some peculiar ideas. One of the said rabble was heard to say, "If they want a mosque tell them to go back their own country." I wonder if he wants all Catholics to move to Rome, Anglicans to England, Presbyterians to Scotland and Buddhists to South East Asia.
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
I conducted the service in Australia's oldest mosque in 1973.
  DounutCereal Chief Train Controller

Location: Who knows.
Wow, really? In that day and age they are putting things up like 'we want a just council' because apparrantly, other cultures and religions are 'not just' and the current council it not opposing them. Hmmm, that's just sad...
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I think what the ~200 bigots meant to write is that they want a council that pays attention to JUST them and not the other 110,910 in the city. Which of course means they must be advocating either a violent overthrow or vote rigging on a scale that would do North Korea proud, neither of which shows them as outstanding Australians.
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
They're scared and they're ignorant.

It's really ironic actually. They're afraid that the coming of a mosque to Bendigo will bring intolerance and hatred. Yet they're right because that's exactly what we're seeing now - from them.  And its the prospect of the mosque that's brought it out into the open.
  Braddo Deputy Commissioner

Location: Narre Warren
You've only got to look at countries like Iraq and Syria to see what happens when islam takes hold. If we continue to allow this religion to exist in our society, we will come to regret it.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Do we think that a community. An have a say over what is built or not built. ?

Why must the minority viewpoint always be accepted in this country ?

If the community of bendigo do not want a development or a mosque or whatever don't you think they should be allowed to have their say.

The rights of the majority always seem to take a back seat in this country. Why ?
  DounutCereal Chief Train Controller

Location: Who knows.
You've only got to look at countries like Iraq and Syria to see what happens when islam takes hold. If we continue to allow this religion to exist in our society, we will come to regret it.
Braddo

So giving the people who believe in it the short straw will change things?
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
Do we think that a community. An have a say over what is built or not built. ?

Why must the minority viewpoint always be accepted in this country ?

If the community of bendigo do not want a development or a mosque or whatever don't you think they should be allowed to have their say.

The rights of the majority always seem to take a back seat in this country. Why ?
freightgate


I assume you're trying to be sarcastic.  (It's dangerous because not all readers will realise sarcasm when written).

In fact this lot are a small minority in Bendigo.  But they're noisy and strident so to the casual viewer it can seem like the who city is full of ignorant bigots.  But it's not - nothing like it - see here for another a more uplifting story

http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2367115/rainbow-balloons-fly-in-support-of-diversity/?cs=3380

In fact despite all the failings in this country - and the weird minor party results at the last election, I reckon generally speaking the majority seems to do pretty well.  I wouldn't want to be a minority.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Oh, Bendigo is only apologising for the mosque fiasco? But they have so many other things to apologise for. Shocked

... But I did grow up in Castlemaine, so I may be biased. Wink
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

With the exception of the Castlemaine-related issues mentioned above, it looks like Bendigo might not have so much to apologise for - there are reports in even the right-leaning media saying that a large proportion of the group which protested at the council meeting were not even from the area.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

To be fair, some who are (legitimately) criticizing Islam are being unfairly labelled and personally attacked.  In a Western democracy it's ridiculous (and dangerous) that some want to silence reasonable debate.

Some in the anti-mosque crowd have also resorted to name-calling and personal attacks.  Reprehensible and stupid behavior.

Anyway, as Section 116 of the Australian Constitution says-
"The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth".

So if the mosque meets planning regulations, then I cannot see why it shouldn't be built.  Likewise, those who do have issues with Islam, should be free to publicly state their case.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
It's worth reminding the small-minded tightRsed types that Islam has been practiced in Australia before Arthur Phillip took over the joint.

A mosque is just a church and should be assessed no different to it being RC, CoE, Hillsong etc. Like any religion Islam has its moderates  and zealots so what's new Rolling Eyes
  Carnot Minister for Railways

A mosque is just a church and should be assessed no different to it being RC, CoE, Hillsong etc. Like any religion Islam has its moderates and zealots so what's new Rolling Eyes
Groundrelay

Not exactly the same.  Nearly all mosques in Australia are gender segregated, and they have very different dress rules (for women at least) etc.

Many of the more radical mosques in Australia have shelves that are wall-to-wall with 9/11 conspiracy theory videos, and anti-semitic literature....

As I said, if they don't break Australian law they should be allowed in this country.  But it's naive to think they are all benign.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
It's been really embarrassing for Bendigo this week.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-Mosque-in-Bendigo/1409152012662221

The city has probably now sunk to the same depths as Cronulla in the national consciousness.

I can assure you that despite the noise they make, this mob is NOT representative of good Bendigonians.  For generations, ever since the gold rush we've lived harmoniously with people of all cultures, including a heritage of Afghan spice hawkers plying their trade.

Sorry.
Calgully

First off, to make it clear, I do not adhere to any faith, be it Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or Jedi.

I would also like to apologize for the actions of a few ill-informed people who scream at the top of their lungs regarding the Mosque. Amongst the "reasons" they give for their screaming are that the mosque will make it harder to find car parks in Bendigo, that it will incite terrorist acts and that they just don't agree with Islam (I'm looking at you Cr Elise Chapman).

It may come as a surprise to them then that there is already a small Muslim prayer room at the Bendigo campus of La Trobe University. I don't recall any terrorist acts at the university, can you?

Regarding the 'zealot' theory, every religion has them. You would be naive to think that Islam is the only religion to have them.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Regarding the 'zealot' theory, every religion has them. You would be naive to think that Islam is the only religion to have them.
Greensleeves

Although it would also be reasonable to note that 17 of the 18 proscribed banned terrorist organisations in Australia are Islamic.  Clearly they have to get their house in order.  And unless there is a significant and almost wholesale overhaul of Quranic interpretation (very difficult I might add since most attempts at this have failed miserably), the problem will remain.

That said, Western nations have spent the good part of the last century exacerbating the problem, as can be seen in this article on the ABC religion website: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2014/06/18/4027679.htm
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Yes, build a mosque and Bendigo becomes Baghdad. As there are already Catholic and Protestant churches there I'm surprised it hasn't already turned into Belfast. Is there an Orthodox Church there? Hope not, Bendigo could become the next Bosnia! In any case, the cathedral has to go. It's got to be attracting kiddly fiddlers from all over the country and we can't have that, not in Bendigo. Just kidding, but that makes as much sense as saying the mosque is going to attract terrorists.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Although it would also be reasonable to note that 17 of the 18 proscribed banned terrorist organisations in Australia are Islamic. Clearly they have to get their house in order. And unless there is a significant and almost wholesale overhaul of Quranic interpretation (very difficult I might add since most attempts at this have failed miserably), the problem will remain.
...
Carnot


That's hardly surprising given the number of countries where Islam is the dominate faith and how many of those countries are in conflict or have oppressive regimes. In WW2 many Christian Germans considered acts by the resistance against its soldiers as barbaric and approved acts of reprisal which the allies would consider as war crimes.
Fact is small-minded tightRsed types have been responsible for the worst atrocities throughout history. They run to the first ayatollah, fuhrer or shock jock that will reinforce their intolerant view of the world. Mad

Rather than join that lot I'd rather keep it in perspective...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21eaubatLGc
  Carnot Minister for Railways

In WW2 many Christian Germans considered acts by the resistance against its soldiers as barbaric and approved acts of reprisal which the allies would consider as war crimes.
Fact is small-minded tightRsed types have been responsible for the worst atrocities throughout history. They run to the first ayatollah, fuhrer or shock jock that will reinforce their intolerant view of the world. Mad
Groundrelay

Fact - it was genuine Christians like Dietrich Bonhoeffer who didn't cave in to the fuhrer that led the resistance in WWII.  It was the wishy-washy liberal church that primarily got behind Adolf.

Anyway, I hope there is some intelligent dialogue between people of different religions in Bendigo in the coming years.  Not a wishy-washy "we're all the same" pointless exercise, but rather an honest, open, and civil discussion that recognizes differences.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Fact - it was genuine Christians like Dietrich Bonhoeffer who didn't cave in to the fuhrer that led the resistance in WWII. It was the wishy-washy liberal church that primarily got behind Adolf.

Anyway, I hope there is some intelligent dialogue between people of different religions in Bendigo in the coming years. Not a wishy-washy "we're all the same" pointless exercise, but rather an honest, open, and civil discussion that recognizes differences.
Carnot


Wrong Razz
Bonhoeffer could only be described as part of that "wishy-washy liberal church", itself a minority in 1930's Germany. It was the conservative christian churches that aligned themselves with the Nazis who were protectors of the establishment from the growing influence of communism and increasing decadence within society e.g. the popularity of Jazz (Negro jungle music!).
Fact - 'liberals' didn't have a place in Himmler's new world. He went after writers, artists, homosexuals etc and many enlightened thinkers of the time were also Jewish. The sort of people that small-minded, tightRsed types wanted protecting from Mad

As for the  "we're all the same" pointless exercise seems whether it's 1934 or 2014 you can't get enough divisiveness in the world. By all means argue on loss of amenity, car parking etc but leave religiousness bigotry out of it.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Wrong Razz
Bonhoeffer could only be described as part of that "wishy-washy liberal church", itself a minority in 1930's Germany. It was the conservative christian churches that aligned themselves with the Nazis who were protectors of the establishment from the growing influence of communism and increasing decadence within society e.g. the popularity of Jazz (Negro jungle music!).
Fact - 'liberals' didn't have a place in Himmler's new world. He went after writers, artists, homosexuals etc and many enlightened thinkers of the time were also Jewish. The sort of people that small-minded, tightRsed types wanted protecting from Mad

As for the "we're all the same" pointless exercise seems whether it's 1934 or 2014 you can't get enough divisiveness in the world. By all means argue on loss of amenity, car parking etc but leave religiousness bigotry out of it.
Groundrelay

Depends what you mean by "conservative"?  Bonhoeffer came from a within the elite liberal establishment in Berlin, but through the influence of Karl Barth and others saw the problems of liberal theology - it had no hope of standing against the zeitgeist.  In the end his theology became more closely aligned with Anabaptist thought.  

If by conservative you mean "nationalistic", then the Nazis certainly took advantage of the sentiment. That's the opposite of anabaptism which rejects the mixing of church and state.  Yet criticism of abusive and misguided religion remains one of its hallmarks.

As for today - a lot of the anti-mosque crowd have a nationalistic streak which most churches/synagogues/whatever despise, but that shouldn't mean that any critique of Islam must necessarily be silenced by naive lefty types.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
A Mosque is just another building nothing special about it four walls and roof same as any other building nearby. So if it is built to current Australian standards then what is the problem. Now if they want to build it to downtown Baghdad standards or something then there are genuine grounds for complaint! We have a mosque near us here but they don't go running amok with their AK47 assault rifles in the streets! Indeed you would hardly notice it if not for the minaret built into it! But it is just another church type building to the locals here nothing more!
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Although it would also be reasonable to note that 17 of the 18 proscribed banned terrorist organisations in Australia are Islamic.  Clearly they have to get their house in order.  
"Carnot"
The only reason that we don't have (for example) Anglican or Catholic terrorist organisations causing problems in Australia is that they aren't needed so long as they are tightly woven into the Establishment - including having the boss of the Anglicans as the head of state and a far right Catholic as the head of government now that the atheist (Gillard/Bryce) aberration has been dealt with.

Wrong Razz
Bonhoeffer could only be described as part of that "wishy-washy liberal church", itself a minority in 1930's Germany. It was the conservative christian churches that aligned themselves with the Nazis who were protectors of the establishment from the growing influence of communism and increasing decadence within society e.g. the popularity of Jazz (Negro jungle music!).
Fact - 'liberals' didn't have a place in Himmler's new world. He went after writers, artists, homosexuals etc and many enlightened thinkers of the time were also Jewish. The sort of people that small-minded, tightRsed types wanted protecting from Mad
"Groundrelay"

Fact - it was genuine Christians like Dietrich Bonhoeffer who didn't cave in to the fuhrer that led the resistance in WWII.  It was the wishy-washy liberal church that primarily got behind Adolf.
"Carnot"

You are both making the triple mistakes of (a) assuming there is a simple conservative-liberal spectrum in theology like there is a right-left spectrum in politics, (b) assuming that such a theological conservative-liberal spectrum is the same as the political right-left spectrum, and (c) fatally damaging your argument by finding nothing more applicable than an example from Nazi Germany (aka breaking Godwin's Law).
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
... We have a mosque near us... Indeed you would hardly notice it if not for the minaret built into it! But it is just another church type building to the locals here nothing more!
David Peters

Despite living in what I suspect is the whitest, most Anglo-Saxon postcode in urban Australia (3054), bizarrely there is a mosque in my suburb. (Presumably a hang over from many decades ago when some migrants lived here.)

Houses next door to the mosque and over the road from it, sell for at least a 20% discount to similar houses a fair distance from it.

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