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Final train out of Hobart

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      derwentparkjunc Chief Train Controller

    Any details available?

    Cheers,
    DPJ
    Posted: 20 Jun 2014 21:13

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      Krel4203 Locomotive Driver

    Any details available?


    Departing Hobart at 1530 on Sunday. Probably two TR class.
    Parallel run with TTMS when passing.
    Posted: 21 Jun 2014 10:55
      chriswoo Junior Train Controller

    Location: HOBART, TASMANIA
    So guy's, After a clarification..

    I have seen two departure times from Hobart.

    One at 1300 and this one at 1530.

    Could someone please clarify.

    Cheers
    Posted: 21 Jun 2014 16:58
      Electric C Junior Train Controller

    Location: The Shed - land of junk, smoke and wonder
    It's 1530 changed this morning
    Posted: 21 Jun 2014 18:10
      freightgate Minister for Railways

    Location: Albury, New South Wales
    Is this the end of trains into Hobart ?
    Posted: 21 Jun 2014 18:58
      Phillip Station Master

    Is this the end of trains into Hobart ?
    freightgate

    yes it is

    there is a story in the Tasmanian Times that confirms trains will finish at the Brighton hub except for the paper trains to Boyer.
    Posted: 21 Jun 2014 19:29

    Last edited by Phillip on 21 Jun 2014 19:45; edited 3 times in total
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    They should create a passenger train service on the rail-line or a lightrail. IT does appear to be shortsighted to remove trains altogether from Hobart. This is a bad decision. Why do cities in Australia go backwards even when the population is growing. This would not occur in other parts of the world. I can see the roads becoming congested with noisy heavy trucks. This appears to be a bad decision.
    wxtre

    Hobart wasn't the ideal terminal, jammed right at the bottom of the city, designed for older smaller trains and was mainly a passenger train terminal along side a port no longer used for freight and I believe the freighters now need a bit of shunting to get wagons into the right places. Trucks actually had to go into the city CBD to load/unload on rail.

    In the 21st century you don't load freight trains in the heart of the CBD, Brisbane closed Roma St yards 20+ years ago, Sydney the same, it was time for Hobart. Now they have a modern fit for purpose terminal with space to move. Yes its a bit far out, I question how far out, but the alt was to build in suburbia.
    Posted: 23 Jun 2014 22:07
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    They should create a passenger train service on the rail-line or a lightrail.
    wxtre

    There is a bit of traction on the LR front. I don't see it happening soon, but maybe one day. At least with the freights gone this does become a real option, but the state govt will unlikely be able to internally fund it. There have been some half arsed proposals, but I think for it to work it needs to run through the city, not end in the railyards. Running around the Gardens like the current line is a waste of time and it should run through Nth Hobart.

    The line also needs to extend to Sandy Bay, the Uni and Wrest Point Casino and get all the students and tree huggers down there.
    Posted: 24 Jun 2014 13:59
      BP4417 Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Launceston, Tasmania
    Hobart wasn't the ideal terminal, jammed right at the bottom of the city,
    RTT_Rules

    There were two proposals to build inner city passenger terminus's, both plans are in the archives
    Posted: 24 Jun 2014 16:02
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    There were two proposals to build inner city passenger terminus's, both plans are in the archives
    BP4417

    Thanks, I often looked down that way and felt a tunnel under the city for a submerged station was really not that complex, but that's all history now and at the end of the day, the HR line serves about 1/3 of the modern Hobart population and even then its off to the side. So doing anything now must be with a greater focus of further roll out to other areas or just stick with the bus network.

    Hobart is also a cold windy wet city in its long winter, often with ice on ground and the old railyards are at the bottom of a hill. For the tram to be used it needs to deliver its load into the CBD, like the buses do.

    Hobart also has barely 200,000 people and while similar to Canberra or Gold Coast, both of which are getting LR, but its not likely to grow much more in the next 20 years and nor does it have the cash flow or political importance to go spending +$billion on a limited LR line(s).

    The lower half of the former Bridgewater to Hobart rail line is a easy win, but by-pass the park section before the old terminus and go through Nth Hobart into the city. Costs more, but the catchment is so much more. Next is extend into South Hobart, the uni and Wrest Point in 5 years time.
    Posted: 25 Jun 2014 15:01
      Floody Locomotive Driver

    Probably be cheaper to have a good rail/bus interchange at the Domain/Cornelian Bay/Gardens rather than building light rail into the city I'd think.
    Posted: 27 Jun 2014 23:04
      12CSVT Chief Commissioner

    Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!
    Having the Hobart suburban (revival proposal termed Hobart Northern Suburbs Railway or HNSR) bypass North Hobart was an issue years ago after the trams ended, but now, I can't see it being an issue as RTT Rules seems to think. North Hobart residents tend to work locally or cycle (being only a km or two out of the CBD) or have frequent short distance bus services up and down Elizabeth St. The bus option is at it's most attractive on the frequent, direct and short distance service through North Hobart and if NH ever gets the long proposed Elizabeth St tram revival, it would render any purpose of the HNSR serving NH as pointless.

    Newtown is an appropriate inner most destination and viability increases the further north one gets as buses get slower, routes more convoluted, confusing and unattractive.

    The proposed HNSR CBD terminal is in the present "bus mall" opposite the GPO abutting Elizabeth St. Mall (utilising a short amount of street running up from the wharf).

    Cheers,
    SZ
    Posted: 29 Jun 2014 22:22
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    These second tier cities such as Hobart, Canberra, Gold Coast/tweed heads, Newcastle, Geelong need transport planning not less transport. The government need to start funding rail infrastructure. As the populations of these cities grow to over 1 million they will not be able to cope unless they planning and implement rail infrastructure now.
    wxtre

    Hobart is barely 0.25m with minimal growth. For the next 10-15 years, will there be much impact on the current roads and under used buses? I support LR for Hobart, but I wonder what problem is it trying to solve?

    Can, GC and New are all gettting their LR.

    Geelong will need more services to Melbourne to replace the relatively fast loss of local industry, I don't see a rush to build internal rail commuter service, just park'n'ride or bus loops.
    Posted: 08 Jul 2014 02:10
      derwentparkjunc Chief Train Controller

    I experienced a sense of mild annoyance while driving from Moonah to the city today when I noted that the actual lights (those that flash alternately when a train approaches) had been removed from the crossing light poles at the Bay Rd crossing, New Town.
    This sensation paled when compared with the                                                   (expletive deleted) fury that enveloped me when I
    spotted point levers, whole points, parts of points and whole sections of track having been removed from sections of Hobart yard.
    I guess these observations symbolised the fact that no apparent coherent plan is in place for actively managing the Hobart suburban rail corridor for future rail use.
    Can any other Railpage contributors clarify for us what TasRail's actual policy and strategy will be for 'managing' this corridor?

    'Cheers',
    DPJ
    Posted: 08 Jul 2014 18:24
      Electric C Junior Train Controller

    Location: The Shed - land of junk, smoke and wonder
    The points where removed as they are rare as rocking horse smeg and may make there way too Burnie but the lights really are a shame
    Posted: 08 Jul 2014 19:20
      Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Burnie, Tasmania
    Lights removed due to vandalism etc. As for track, just the usual, make sure its there etc. The line into the yard, well I was told the line to Macquarie wharf is staying, rest going due to Macquarie Point redevelopment group plans.
    Posted: 08 Jul 2014 19:31
      lkernan Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Melbourne
    I noted that the actual lights (those that flash alternately when a train approaches) had been removed from the crossing light poles at the Bay Rd crossing, New Town.
    derwentparkjunc


    I'd expect they will remove all infrastructure except the track itself and only do bare minimum maintenance, such as weed killing to keep neighbors along the track happy.
    Posted: 08 Jul 2014 19:55
      Bogong Chief Commissioner

    Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
    Interesting wxtre, I sort of agree with you... in at least one respect.

    The Hobart City Council is obstructing, if not quite actually blocking, the construction of an aerial railway (also known as a gondola) from the Cascade brewery to Mt Wellington, even though it's been demonstrated that the cables and gondolas will be invisible without binoculars. It would remove about 3/4 of the road traffic up the mountain. http://www.mtwellingtoncablecar.com

    It seems to me that the problem for Hobart and broader Tasmania isn't so much a lack of vision, as obstructing any proposal until absolutely everyone agrees on a project. And because that will never happen, nothing ever gets done. 😞
    Posted: 08 Jul 2014 23:57

    Last edited by Bogong on 09 Jul 2014 00:00; edited 2 times in total
      Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Burnie, Tasmania
    Also about heavy freight containers that cannot be transported on trucks. Will they travel by rail from Burnie or Devonport down to Hobart?
    wxtre

    There is already conatiners from Burnie to Brighton by rail. Not sure what you mean by heavy containers.

    Devonport, forget it.
    Posted: 09 Jul 2014 08:16
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    It is strange that Hobart does not appear to progress and goes backwards and the people in Hobart swim nude at the winter solstice. It was one of the earliest cities in Australia and it never implemented a transport plan and the city appears to have stayed in a different time and never modernized. It is stagnant I would agree, but it will continue to grow into the future.

    Also about heavy freight containers that cannot be transported on trucks. Will they travel by rail from Burnie or Devonport down to Hobart?
    wxtre

    As the line is now formally closed, all signage and lights that direct road traffic to stop or potentially stop should rightfully be removed or covered. All too often we have signs left behind on lines with no traffic whether they be formally or informally closed. Hobart is not some backwater town and hence removal of the lights is the correct approach especially as they have significant value and leaving them there is placing them at risk of damage. The Beadesrt line in Qld still has lights on some crossings, but in numerous places sections of track are missing/removed.

    Containers are never too heavy to be moved by truck, after all at some point in their trip somewhere they will be on a truck. Max weight for a 20 footer is usually 25t for which you can place this on a truck a single container in the middle of the 40 foot tray.
    Posted: 09 Jul 2014 17:36
      Peter-Hem Locomotive Driver

    Location: Tassie
    Is the Tasmanian Transport Museum's line currently connected to the now abandoned Hobart line?
    Posted: 09 Jul 2014 18:52
      waynes Junior Train Controller

    Location: Victoria
    Where will containers now be loaded and unloaded for Hobart?
    Posted: 09 Jul 2014 19:35

    Last edited by waynes on 09 Jul 2014 19:36; edited 1 time in total
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    For rail/road 'intermodal transport', I believe it requires a special truck/chassis, which costs more. There are requirements regarding the weight that heavy vehicles can carry. Also you have to consider road weight limitations and heights. With a train you can carry many containers not just one single container and sometimes double stack containers where it is possible.
    wxtre

    Rail has just as many if not more restrictions than road. Axle loads, dimensions, height above rail etc. For rail these are usually very fixed and required capital spending to resolve. For road, there are usually options especially for low frequency or one off trips, although they often come with a cost.

    In reference to Tasrail, moving a 25t 20' container by road to rail head can be done with a typical semi. B-doubles can carry two if the road is rated to B-double standard. On the train, I believe Tasrail operates to a 18t axle load. So 72t gross wagon weight - minus wagon weight say 18t = 54t. So I assume you can usually fit two fully loaded containers on the same wagon.

    Moving the 100 year old outdated, inefficent Hobart rail head away from the city center to me isn't a bad thing, but Brighton? Lets hope a modern new facility delivers the long term practical and cost savings that makes Tasrail more efficient.
    Posted: 09 Jul 2014 19:35
      Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Burnie, Tasmania
    Where will containers now be loaded and unloaded for Hobart?
    waynes

    Brighton Transport Hub. Toll are now there, not at the old Hobart rail yard.
    Posted: 09 Jul 2014 19:38
      Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Burnie, Tasmania
    The Hobart port hasn't had ships to move containers for years. Tasports, owners are the government, are pushing for either Bell Bay or Burnie as the international port. Burnie shifts most of the outbound of Tasmanian freight, closely second is Devonport.

    Devonport is used by Searoad, who uses little rail movements. Devonport yard is only used by cement train only.
    Posted: 09 Jul 2014 20:49

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