Malaysia Airlines Plane With 295 Aboard Crashes in Ukraine

 

News article: Malaysia Airlines Plane With 295 Aboard Crashes in Ukraine

MOSCOW — A Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 with 295 people aboard was apparently shot down by an antiaircraft missile before it crashed and burned on Thursday in an eastern Ukraine wheat field near the Russian border.

  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
The western media critised one of the militas for holding up the monkey soft toy. Then the RT claimed to show the full footage which shows the guy then kissing the toy and placing on the ground gently and making sign of cross. I could be wrong, but I don't think the footage was taken on same day. Comment: Sky News has apologised for one of its jurno's going through a suitcase.
RTT Rules

It was the same day.


Journalists just decided to take shots out of context and portray it as rebels celebrating the crash.


I don't mind RT in the context that if you watch CNN in comparison, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

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  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
As I was saying...

Qantas explanation of Ukraine flight paths questioned

Qantas Airways had not flown over the eastern Ukraine since it shifted its European hub to Dubai last year but it  continued to fly over Crimea and the southern Ukraine until April, airline sources said.
The Malaysia Airlines operations director, Captain Izham Ismail, on Saturday questioned Qantas’s assertion that it had changed flight paths to avoid the area where MH17 was shot down, because he said the Australian carrier had not been flying in the area.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
As I was saying...

Qantas explanation of Ukraine flight paths questioned

Qantas Airways had not flown over the eastern Ukraine since it shifted its European hub to Dubai last year but it continued to fly over Crimea and the southern Ukraine until April, airline sources said.
The Malaysia Airlines operations director, Captain Izham Ismail, on Saturday questioned Qantas’s assertion that it had changed flight paths to avoid the area where MH17 was shot down, because he said the Australian carrier had not been flying in the area.
ZH836301

Don't need to seek explanations from Qantas if it was flying over the area, just look at the schedule, how could it? Qantas is effectively a very minor carrier (kind words) outside SE Asia and Pacific routes. The Qantas flights to Europe, nth Africa, Middle East and former USSR is now just a pathetic twice a day London to/from Dubai (one each from Syd and Mel). Everything on their so called flight route is basically Emirates. So its a given they didn't fly over the Eastern Part of Ukraine.

The typical route to nth Europe from Dubai is straight down the left side of the Gulf, over Kuwait to Bagdad up the guts of Iraq turn left at the top right hand corner of Syria (avoiding Syria and Iran) then over to Turkey along the southern part of the Black Sea over Romania and nth.

For Qantas planes to be over this part of Ukraine since the move to Dubai, they would simply be lost. And yes EK were flying Qantas code share routes over Eastern Ukraine up until the morning of the shoot down and diverted along with the rest of them a few hours after MH17 crashed and it was potentially known why.

A 2nd MH flight from Holland basically following MH17 a number of hours later diverted nth and East around Ukraine at minimal notice.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
It's basically about the media trying to shame Malaysia Airlines by holding up their infallible hero Qantas, despite them never flying the same route in the first place, and only needing to shift their route slightly at minimal cost.

Today in the media circus, journalists sook about not being able to stick their d1cks in the rail carriages, despite whining previously about a supposed lack of dignity shown to the bodies.  Then crying foul because some bodies are missing (ignoring that some are still in a morgue elsewhere), with other reports stating the bodies have not yet been conclusively counted (200 is a little too convenient a number to be exact).  

And they really expect 300 perfectly formed torsos from a high velocity plane crash?  Can they get any more conniving and stupid?  They're also whining about moving wreckage.  Well, how else are you supposed to get to any bodies underneath?  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  Then on people trampling the site, despite them running around taking photos of anything and everything.  The hypocrisy is unending.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
they really expect 300 perfectly formed torsos from a high velocity plane crash?
ZH836301

That was caused by the impact of a missile that likely caused many to be much less than intact long before impact with this planet!

The hypocrisy is unending.
ZH836301

We should be able to expect better from our media, but I've long given up hope of that!
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
We should be able to expect better from our media, but I've long given up hope of that!
Graham4405

Like truth in news reporting, or better still truth in advertising? I find it amazing that politicians are held to account for not telling the truth to the public, yet the print and electronic media are free to lie about anything that takes their fancy. And don't get me started on advertising, where many of the campaigns are based on absolute porkers (anything to do with women's cosmetics).

I remember working in television and when the news people came into the canteen, all the other departments got up and left. A bit like in 'Alice's Restaurant'.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
There's talk of an International Military force being deployed to help protect the Crash Site, to be honest, I don't know what I think of that Idea, It has it's good and bad merits

Kind Regards
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
There's talk of an International Military force being deployed to help protect the Crash Site, to be honest, I don't know what I think of that Idea, It has it's good and bad merits
lsrailfan

Too late by a long way. God knows who has trampled all over the site, what's been taken, shifted or damaged, or by whom. The force would arrive, there'd be a firefight with the locals who have been there all along, and nothing would be achieved except a few more lives lost.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Yup , I'm afraid I concur, whilst it does sound good, It could, and possibly would make more trouble than they need at this point
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
There's talk of an International Military force being deployed to help protect the Crash Site, to be honest, I don't know what I think of that Idea, It has it's good and bad merits

Kind Regards
lsrailfan

Too little too late, I suspect most of the harm has been done.

They should have moved a force in on day one or had them on stand by growing in number in Kiev or next door in Poland, but I doubt too many believed it was ever going to be simple although what the rebels have done is beyond the worst expectations.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
In my opinion, little is to be gained from having a further investigation of the remains, as it is pretty clear what brought the aircraft down and where it came from. The data recorders will most likely reveal nothing that is not already known, other than perhaps an 'Oh Sh1t' moment on the CVR.

What is really necessary now is an expert salvage operation to recover the bodies of the victims, as it is apparent that not all of them have been recovered yet, and that will most likely require cadaver dogs to find them plus a properly organised field search of the debris area.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
In my opinion, little is to be gained from having a further investigation of the remains, as it is pretty clear what brought the aircraft down and where it came from. The data recorders will most likely reveal nothing that is not already known, other than perhaps an 'Oh Sh1t' moment on the CVR.

What is really necessary now is an expert salvage operation to recover the bodies of the victims, as it is apparent that not all of them have been recovered yet, and that will most likely require cadaver dogs to find them plus a properly organised field search of the debris area.
TheBlacksmith

If there ever was a case for guilt by association, this is it.
  PeterK123 Beginner

Right now there is lots of talking going about Russia... that they did it...

Does anyone have a proof??? apart of the social media footage??????
Just today in USA happened a secret briefing, it was a closed one., no public media were allowed. Everyone was hoping that they are going to show a real evidence or a proof from their satellite!!!!

Guess what... the only information they could provide is the one from the social media like YouTube.... and their own opinion on the matter., Ooh and 2 pics of a Russian training camp near the border of Ukraine.... but that's it the rest it just thinking and hoping that Russians did the dirty job. I would say it just an American brainwash they are very good in that...

Why the Ukrainian government did not release the official recordings of communication from the Air traffic control hub which happened with the airline and made it public???

What I know that those recordings were seized just after the crash., what happened to those tapes you may guess yourself., if we did not hear them on You Tube until now, we will never hear them in the future.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFDjVRPMsu4&list=UUvsye7V9psc-APX6wV1twLg




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAqcx0eUYag&list=UUvsye7V9psc-APX6wV1twLg&index=10


Right now everyone is watching You Tube only, including the US secrete agencies......... (#_#) too bad., there are lots of creative people out there.

Have a look at United States intelligence budget:
and they still rely on youtube and twitter Smile
[color=#2793e6][font=arial, sans-serif]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intelligence_budget[/font][/color]

Russian government still thinks that US has footage from its own satellite (in regards to the airplane crash), but they don't want to share with the rest of the world. We might get it from the wikileaks at some point in the future, but not from the US government. As it maybe not in their best interest to do so.

Associated Press:
[color=#2793e6][font=arial, sans-serif]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-present-intelligence-data-plane-crash-0[/font][/color]



And the statement about how Russians supplied weapons and trained those separatists is interesting and I believe in that myself., until we start talking about the American military invasion to other countries and how many people have died.

[color=#2793e6][font=arial, sans-serif]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations[/font][/color]

This is my personal view and I can be wrong., but I'm looking for real truth.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Often the simplest explanation is the correct one, too many times people come up with complicated explanations to bolster theories and they just end up looking like so much conspiratorial rubbish. It does not matter what proof is offered, those wearing the tin-foil hats won't believe it and dismiss it because it does not fit their wacky theories.

I don't think anyone doubts that the aircraft was brought down by a missile, so it only remains to be discovered who fired it. The Vincennes incident was simple, cut and dried, no complicated theories. The US shot down an unarmed civilian aircraft because they stuffed up. I believe history will tell the Russians did the same in this incident.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Russians?
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Я ищу реальную правду также
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Russians?
ZH836301

Yeah, operated on behalf of the separatists. What reason does Ukraine have for shooting down an aircraft that is nearly out of their airspace, when the separatists are not using aircraft and the area it was fired from is controlled by the separatists?

Я ищу реальную правду также . Good luck with that.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
And to add to that, last night there was footage of the wreckage of a Ukrainian fighter aircraft that was brought down by a missile in an area neighbouring the place where MH17 was brought down, and the separatists are claiming it as their kill.

Also, although admittedly not a necessarily a reliable source, footage of a separatist fighter saying that his people brought down MH17.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Я ищу реальную правду также
"Graham4405"

Many may look, but I doubt they will find it
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
In the news today a larger section of the aircraft has been located in a wooded area. The wreckage was said to contain body parts. Just terrible.

I wonder if they will actually locate everyone who was inboard.  It would would be very hard for the families concerned.
  PeterK123 Beginner

All Parties Involved to Blame for Malaysian Aircraft Disaster in Ukraine:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=12130


Evidence for Russian Involvement in East Ukraine Based on Shoddy Journalism
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11773
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
All Parties Involved to Blame for Malaysian Aircraft Disaster in Ukraine:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=12130
PeterK123

That's hilarious.

Lawrence Wilkerson is a retired United States Army soldier and former chief of staff to United States Secretary of State Colin Powell.

You do realise that Colin Powell is the man that sold the lie about WMDs in Iraq to the World.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...Just terrible. ... It would would be very hard for the families concerned.
freightgate


This is a personal tragedy for the families and friends of the dead.
However we should keep it in perspective. Every premature death is a tragedy, to violence even more so.
If there weren't Australians on MH17 and it was (accidentally!) shot down by a 'friendly' lot would we still be hearing about it today. I doubt it Sad
  MILW Junior Train Controller

Location: Earth
That's hilarious.


You do realise that Colin Powell is the man that sold the lie about WMDs in Iraq to the World.
bingley hall

Oh yes, let's not forget that scenario because it could be repeated... and of course it doesn't mean the other US officials with their top secret intelligence that we aren't allowed to see can be trusted, either.

In defence of Wilkerson, he's not the only one saying that sort of thing, particularly relating to the airline industry/ICAO etc, which was also criticised by Australian academic Geoffrey Dell http://theconversation.com/why-was-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-flying-over-ukraine-29372
Dell's views were also published in the mainstream media

Trial of those responsible for downing of MH17 at International Criminal Court is unlikely, says university lecturer:
http://theconversation.com/achieving-elusive-justice-for-flight-mh17-victims-will-be-a-challenge-29636
The article does seem to presuppose Russian/rebel involvement, perhaps for hypothetical purposes, but there are some interesting comments from the online "intellectual" community.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
That was caused by the impact of a missile that likely caused many to be much less than intact long before impact with this planet!


We should be able to expect better from our media, but I've long given up hope of that!
Graham4405

The Missile is likely to have caused minimal direct harm to many of the pax.

Flight 902, USSR shooting down of a Sth Korean Airlines B707, two pax died from the missile impact, and the cabin depressurised slowly, the plane crashed landed and all the rest survived. Plane and C&VDR refused to be handed over. Plane was shot down prior to leaving Russian Airspace and the fighter pilot knew it was a civilian Asian plane.

Flight 007, USSR shooting down of a Sth Korean Airlines B747, plane was still flying 14min after being fired upon. The plane depressurised slowly No indication from the crew of injuries. Pilots eventually lost control and it crashed with all lost. Shot down prior to leaving Russian Airspace. Russians refused access into their waters by the search team and originally denied any involvement and later about giving warning shots, communicating with the plane and even the circumstances and wasn't for nearly 10yrs before handing over the CVR and CDR and even in two different intervals. Even more interesting there is a photo in wiki of Putin giving the fighter pilot an award in 2000 for a separate reason. The pilot even made a comment in a later intervene how much effort he had to go to shoot the plane as its speed was too slow for him to maintain cruise. The fighter pilot knew it was a civilian plane.

They said the missile that hit MH17 is a type that pre-explodes prior impact to enable the plane to be covered in shrapnel (I assume more likely to have success than above two weapons).

What appears to be common in all three scenarios is the common level interference, lack of support and denial and probably in the end that fact they knew it was a civilian plane which in todays world the equipment required to identify is almost local electrical shop stuff and when all else fails, WWW.

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