Derailment south of Alice Springs

 
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

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  delibar Beginner

Does anybody have an idea of how long this will take to clear? This will significantly affect my work. Freight may have to leave via road this week.
  georges Chief Train Controller

It seams that way, given the line Isn't that old (no pioneer goat track) built to 1970's design standards and designed to withstand a 1 In 100 year flood event (well and truly proven wrong)
Nightfire

Flooding within a few years of the railway’s construction does not negate the original estimate of its probability. A ‘1 in 100 year flood’ means that there is a 1% chance that flooding will occur in any given year, contrary to what the expression seems to mean. The expression has a particular technical meaning that has become lost in translation. The US Geological Survey has an explanatory poster (that may need enlarging): http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/106/pdf/100-year-flood_041210web.pdf
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Flooding within a few years of the railway’s construction does not negate the original estimate of its probability. A ‘1 in 100 year flood’ means that there is a 1% chance that flooding will occur in any given year, contrary to what the expression seems to mean. The expression seems to have originally had a particular technical meaning that has become lost in translation. The US Geological Survey has an explanatory poster (that may need enlarging): http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/106/pdf/100-year-flood_041210web.pdf
"georges"
Yes, a lot of people have a lot to learn about statistics and probabilities.
  Arelex Station Staff

Does anybody have an idea of how long this will take to clear? This will significantly affect my work. Freight may have to leave via road this week.
delibar



  1. At about 1030 AM on 26/7/14, freight train 6DA2 derailed near Kulgera, NT about 30 km South of the SA border. The lead locomotives, crew van and fuel tender derailed but remained upright, the next sixteen wagons derailed tipping onto their side.

  2. There were no injuries, but wagons and track infrastructure were damaged.

  3. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) has initiated an investigation into the incident, releasing the site for commencement of recovery activities at 1830 on 27/7/14.

  4. Approximately 300 metres of track destroyed

  5. The train was operated by Genesee & Wyoming Australia who also hold the concession for the Tarcoola – Darwin Railway

  6. Affected train services as a result of the incident:

  7. a. GhanPassenger services operated by Great Southern Rail have terminated at Marla (SA) and Alice Springs (NT) with passengers being transferred by bus. b. Freight serviceshave been stabled terminated enroute with one Northbound service being returned to Adelaide to allow customers access to transfer urgent freight by road.
  8. Initial estimates are that the line will be reopened by midday 30/7.

  SouthAussie94 Station Staff

freight train 6DA2 derailed near Kulgera, NT about 30 km South of the SA border.


Are you sure about that? Read that one again maybe...
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me


  • At about 1030 AM on 26/7/14, freight train 6DA2 derailed near Kulgera, NT about 30 km South of the SA border. The lead locomotives, crew van and fuel tender derailed but remained upright, the next sixteen wagons derailed tipping onto their side.

  • "Arelex"


    from the ATSB's preliminary (link above)
    At about 1030 CST, freight train 6DA2 derailed near Kulgera, NT about 30 km north of the SA border. The lead locomotives, crew van and fuel tender derailed but remained upright, the next sixteen wagons derailed tipping onto their side. There were no injuries, but wagons and track infrastructure were damaged. The ATSB has initiated an investigation into the incident
    "ATSB"
      bingley hall Minister for Railways

    Location: Last train to Skaville
    Wrong forum Razz
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    Not only di we lose land to the Vics now it reads like we are losing it the NT.

    "Kulgera NT ....south of the SA border" don't blame me I am only quoting the report.
      MD Chief Commissioner

    Location: Canbera
    Kulgera is in the NT.
    The 30kms is about right, but north of the border, not south.
      justapassenger Minister for Railways

    Did the ATSB website actually have 'south' on there before being corrected, or was that just an error in transcription by Arelex? If so, it may explain the difficulty they've been experiencing while trying to find MH370, a plane thought to have gone down off the eastern coast of Australia.

    It has since been amended to read derailed near the 1036 km post near Marryat, about 29 km south of the SA/NT border.
    Flooding within a few years of the railway’s construction does not negate the original estimate of its probability. A ‘1 in 100 year flood’ means that there is a 1% chance that flooding will occur in any given year, contrary to what the expression seems to mean. The expression has a particular technical meaning that has become lost in translation.
    "georges"
    I simply took Nightfire's post (where he wrote well and truly proven wrong)to be saying that we know the line isn't fit to handle 1/100 rain events because it gets brought to its knees by much lesser rain events. Occam's Razor and all.
    Does anybody have an idea of how long this will take to clear? This will significantly affect my work. Freight may have to leave via road this week.
    "delibar"
    And here lies the problem in an important national asset being under the care (or neglect)  of a cowboy outfit "short-line operator" that has a proven history in their Australian operations of simply not caring enough to compete. Each incident will have a few companies switching to more reliable methods (not more reliable than rail, just more reliable than GWA) instead of returning to GWA, until the whole point of having a rail line will evaporate.

    GWA should be declared unfit to operate in Australia and compulsorily purchased by the Commonwealth for $1. If people from the USA complain, they could be told "too bad, so sad, now F off."
      YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
    There are some very good people at GWA ................a short line operator (regardless of whom) should never have been given a monopoly of the Tarcoola - Darwin Railway.
    Unfortunately G&W often behaves like the monopoly that they are.
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    Did the ATSB website actually have 'south' on there before being corrected, or was that just an error in transcription by Arelex? If so, it may explain the difficulty they've been experiencing while trying to find MH370, a plane thought to have gone down off the eastern coast of Australia.

    It has since been amended to read derailed near the 1036 km post near Marryat, about 29 km south of the SA/NT border.
    I simply took Nightfire's post (where he wrote well and truly proven wrong)to be saying that we know the line isn't fit to handle 1/100 rain events because it gets brought to its knees by much lesser rain events. Occam's Razor and all.
    And here lies the problem in an important national asset being under the care (or neglect)  of a cowboy outfit "short-line operator" that has a proven history in their Australian operations of simply not caring enough to compete. Each incident will have a few companies switching to more reliable methods (not more reliable than rail, just more reliable than GWA) instead of returning to GWA, until the whole point of having a rail line will evaporate.

    GWA should be declared unfit to operate in Australia and compulsorily purchased by the Commonwealth for $1. If people from the USA complain, they could be told "too bad, so sad, now F off."
    "justapassenger"


    This important national asset runs through some of the toughest rail operating environments in the world...there will be operating issues caused by wet and dry seasons, and there will be operating issues involving the smaller secondhand rail used south of Alice Springs by the previous rail asset owners. The QR maintained North Coast Line and Mt Isa lines both suffer from line closures during the wet season despite being rebuilt with 60kg rail and concrete sleepers and high level bridges...the North Coast Line directly serves 1.3-million people (compared to the 250,000 the Darwin line supplies) yet was still closed for nearly a month in 2011 by one flood event which resulted in RAAF airlifts to keep the 750,000 residents of Mackay, Townsville and Cairns from running out of food.

    As for G&W being a cowboy outfit, this company is the largest regional operator in North America and their Australian operations are one of their biggest money makers. They need those trains to be running and it's not in their best interests to shirk maintenance or starve Darwin because they want to hand over hard fought for freight to road. The ARTC will do no better than G&W in this operating environment.
      Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: University of Adelaide SA
    This important national asset runs through some of the toughest rail operating environments in the world...
    Sulla1

    These sound like the words of a travel agent trying to ham it up for a tour group, or the words of a cardboard cutout company puppet giving evidence at Senate Estimates.

    There are many railways in world that run through just as difficult (and more so) environments than this line.
      Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

    These sound like the words of a travel agent trying to ham it up for a tour group, or the words of a cardboard cutout company puppet giving evidence at Senate Estimates.

    There are many railways in world that run through just as difficult (and more so) environments than this line.
    Aaron

    Yep, and they have derailments and operational interruptions too - ARTC's Nullabor line, QR's Mt Isa line, BNSF's Transcon all included. Parts of this line run through areas where rainfalls of 300mm in four hours can occur two or three times a year across roadbeds constantly expanding and contracting during the dry and wet seasons. Meanwhile other parts of the line run through deserts with air temperatures passing 50 degrees and railhead temperatures that can vary by 70 degrees between night and day. How much tougher an operating environment do you want?
      bingley hall Minister for Railways

    Location: Last train to Skaville
    And here lies the problem in an important national asset being under the care (or neglect) of a cowboy outfit "short-line operator" that has a proven history in their Australian operations of simply not caring enough to compete. Each incident will have a few companies switching to more reliable methods (not more reliable than rail, just more reliable than GWA) instead of returning to GWA, until the whole point of having a rail line will evaporate.

    GWA should be declared unfit to operate in Australia and compulsorily purchased by the Commonwealth for $1. If people from the USA complain, they could be told "too bad, so sad, now F off."
    justapassenger

    Oooh you're so tough. I love it when you talk dirty.
      JimYarin Chief Commissioner

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia
    And here lies the problem in an important national asset being under the care (or neglect) of a cowboy outfit "short-line operator" that has a proven history in their Australian operations of simply not caring enough to compete. Each incident will have a few companies switching to more reliable methods (not more reliable than rail, just more reliable than GWA) instead of returning to GWA, until the whole point of having a rail line will evaporate.

    GWA should be declared unfit to operate in Australia and compulsorily purchased by the Commonwealth for $1. If people from the USA complain, they could be told "too bad, so sad, now F off."
    justapassenger


    as a supposed short line operator expert gwa have been a disappointment for rail in south australia.  if it is the case viterra do not want to do business with gwa then this is sad.  

    why did the government not buy the alice to darwin line when it came up for sale?  would have been under the control of artc and would have been better maintained as a national asset.
      MD Chief Commissioner

    Location: Canbera
    Where is the evidence that GWA arnt maintaining the line properly?
    Can anyone produce a ATSB investigation report that states this is the case, in relation to any of the
    previous derailments.
    Given that no report has been released on the current derailment, on what basis is it that the derailment
    is maintenance problem?
      seb2351 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    as a supposed short line operator expert gwa have been a disappointment for rail in south australia. if it is the case viterra do not want to do business with gwa then this is sad.

    why did the government not buy the alice to darwin line when it came up for sale? would have been under the control of artc and would have been better maintained as a national asset.
    JimYarin

    Disappointment for SA? Casting aspersions on their maintenance regime with a complete lack of evidence? This is very quickly coming towards libel, and just goes to show you the mindset of the "armchair experts" that have swamped these forums.

    Care to explain how GWA, who employs a large number of people across SA are failing? They are a private business, not a public service provider. They are answerable to their shareholders, not the wetdream delusions of the wannabe drivers and "railway experts" that seem to labor under the delusion that rail operators owe them.
    Latest financial figures indicate that GWA is a successful enterprise, hardly a disappointment. If GWA choose to back away from unsustainable and unprofitable business ventures and operations which are not within the strategic interests of the business, that is their right and legal duty to their shareholders.

    What a shame the likes of Sir Thomas Bent are no longer here to provide much needed rational thought and discussion to these boards.
      SAR526 Chief Train Controller

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
    What a shame the likes of Sir Thomas Bent are no longer here to provide much needed rational thought and discussion to these boards.
    seb2351

    During the many years I passed Tommy Bent's statue on the Nepean Highway on my way into Melbourne, I was reminded of his reputation as a very slick worker indeed. He did get things done, like the broad gauge St. Kilda to Brighton Beach tram which i used frequently before I bought a car, but they seemed always to have the primary object of serving his own interests as well as those of the public generally. Perhaps I am unfair. Certainly a fine statue was erected to his memory.

    In this state, it would be better to have mentioned Tom Playford who has no statue, though as the staunch socially conservative Liberal Country League Premier that he was, I am happy to remember as one of 'the best Labor Premiers' in Australia. He was responsible for much of the post-war progress about which I wrote in another posting a few minutes ago. He deserves a prominent statue, as does Don Dunstan for the social progress that he brought about. By the way, they were warm friends.

    Like Tommy Bent – flawed men who left this world better for having been here.
      steam4ian Chief Commissioner

    Brain.

    Tom Playford used to give a Don Dunstan a lift home after late sittings of parliament.

    Like you a bemoan the loss of Australian manufacturing and the intellectual capacity that goes with it.

    Much of the industrialisation happened under right sided governments through the 50s 60s and early 70s only to be dismantled later on. Hawke & Keating started the rot.

    Unfortunately the tariff which protected fledgling industry also protected greed on the part of both unions and the wholesale/retail chain.

    I recall electronic components, not complete functioning items which cost 4-5 times the cost of the same part in the USA or UK. The tariff was only 30% so where did the rest of the money go?
    Only in the last few years have prices of all goods got under double the cost of the same item purchased in the USA. Gerry Norman and his ilk have a lot to answer for.

    Enough of my rant.
    Ian
      SAR526 Chief Train Controller

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
    Brain.

    Enough of my rant.
    Ian
    steam4ian

    I only need to say that I agree with what you said above Ian. Hawke and Keating were far from blameless.

    Brian.
      kipioneer Chief Commissioner

    Location: Aberfoyle Park
    Not only di we lose land to the Vics now it reads like we are losing it the NT.

    "Kulgera NT ....south of the SA border" don't blame me I am only quoting the report.
    steam4ian

    We lost the entire Northern Territory, remember.
      Nightfire Minister for Railways

    Location: Gippsland
    We lost the entire Northern Territory, remember.
    kipioneer

    Story goes that South Australia signed Northern Territory over to the Commonwealth of Australia In exchange for the rail link to be completed from Adelaide to Darwin, It took over a century for that promise to get honoured.
      Pressman Spirit of the Vine

    Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
    Story goes that South Australia signed Northern Territory over to the Commonwealth of Australia In exchange for the rail link to be completed from Adelaide to Darwin, It took over a century for that promise to get honoured.
    "Nightfire"

    And even then it took the SA Government and a Private Consortium to contribute the bulk of the cost to build it, with the Feds only a minor (reluctant) partner!

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